vw passat 130pd - misfire/ problems - passat939
HI ALL , BROUGHT A 55 PLATE 130PD NOW SETTLE DOWN FOR THE STORY ...........
FIRST 2 MONTHS OK , THEN WENT UP HILL COLD ......STRAIGHT INTO LIMP MODE ? NO CODE ?CHANGED MAF, N75 , +OTHER SMALL PARTS BUT NO JOY , KEPT ON DOIN IT UNTIL A MONTH LATER CODE UP ... EMMISIONS WORKSHOP !LUCKLY BIG BRO WORKS AT A VW GARAGE , TURBO CLOGGED, REPLACED WITH A REFURBED ONE . 3 WEEKS LATER NEW PROBLEM ........WITHIN HALF A MILE FROM START UP THE CAR MISSFIRES , BLACK SMOKE OUT THE BACK UNTIL YOU CHANGE UP THEN IT GOES AND WILL ONLY DO IT ONCE PER TRIP ?? NO CODE .AGAIN CHANGE THE MAF , N75 ETC , BUT SAME , CHANGED INJECTOR LOOM BUT SAME , DURING LOOM CHANGE BIG BRO NOTICED NUMBER 3 LOBE ON CAM WORN AND NUMBER 3 INJECTOR SLIGHTLY DOWN .WOULD THESE CAUSE THIS MISSFIRE ? WHY DOES IT ONLY DO IT ONCE ,BIG BRO AND MATES ALL SCRATCHIN THERE HEADS , WOT IF I SPEND ££££££ AND CHANGE CAM , INJECTOR ETC AND IT STILL DOES IT !!!!!
HELP ............

Edited by passat939 on 17/07/2011 at 15:32

vw passat 130pd - misfire/ problems - Peter D

Did they check the EGR valve, it could be sticking. Regards peter

vw passat 130pd - misfire/ problems - unthrottled

Arrgh! There's a whole catalogue of errors here.

If the lobe that operates the injector pump is worn then the fuel for that cylinder would not be pressurised properly and it would cause smoke. However this should not be an intermittent problem. The 'chocolate camshaft' reputation of these engines tends to relate to the narrow intake/exhaust cam lobes and not the lobe that drives the injector pump. It is not impossible that the injector lobe has worn though.

What do you mean by the turbo being 'clogged'? It is normal for there to be some carbon on the vanes and turbine. If there is an excessive amount, the carbon should be cleaned off and the root cause of the smoke addressed. The original turbo was almost certainly functioning correctly and should not have been replaced.

You could have problems with the injectors, but I still think this bears the hallmarks of something less fundamental. I check for a humble boost leak first.

One other thought. What condition is the timing belt in? Belts do not normally stretch but the belt in a PD engine is under an unusually high amount of stress, and if it is marginal there might be sufficient temporary stretch to cause injection timing problems.

vw passat 130pd - misfire/ problems - Terminator-17

"There's a whole catalogue of errors here."

A perfect description of your post.


vw passat 130pd - misfire/ problems - unthrottled

and how should it be corrected?

vw passat 130pd - misfire/ problems - Terminator-17

"how should it be corrected?"


Perhaps deletion would be best....

vw passat 130pd - misfire/ problems - unthrottled

Don't be coy. You think its rubbish. Enlighten us.

vw passat 130pd - misfire/ problems - Terminator-17

Fair enough; if you insist.

"If the lobe that operates the injector pump is worn then the fuel for that cylinder would not be pressurised properly and it would cause smoke."

Really! The only root cause of black diesel smoke is a lack of burnable air.

"The 'chocolate camshaft' reputation of these engines"

The many 130PS PD engine codes have no such reputation. One single engine code - the 150PS ARL -suffers badly from cam-bucket failure which inevitably destroys the cam too. Unless sub-standard lubricant is used, all other PD cams are bullet-proof.

"What do you mean by the turbo being 'clogged'?"

If you have never encountered code 17965, you clearly have no experience whatsoever of PD engines, or indeed any other VNT-equipped vehicles. Carbon-clogged vane rings are extremely common and a dealership would know exactly how to test for it.

"The original turbo was almost certainly functioning correctly and should not have been replaced."

An all-too-typical categorical statement based on no solid evidence and a total lack of experience. No professional makes statements that they cannot substantiate. Even with the strongest supporting test evidence it is all too easy to be 100% wrong. Your constant misdiagnoses must have cost any that made the mistake of following them many hundreds of pounds.

"Belts do not normally stretch but the belt in a PD engine is under an unusually high amount of stress, and if it is marginal there might be sufficient temporary stretch to cause injection timing problems."

"Temporary stretch..." That should have then rolling in the aisles at Gates and Continental. As you've clearly never handled one; cam belts are not made of knicker elastic.

vw passat 130pd - misfire/ problems - unthrottled

Really! The only root cause of black diesel smoke is a lack of burnable air.

GNVQ level simplification. Most diesels will smoke long before the engine reaches stoichiometric ratio (ie lack of 'burnable air' whatever that is). The root cause is low fuel injection pressure leading to large droplet sizes and poor utilisation.

Unless sub-standard lubricant is used, all other PD cams are bullet-proof.

As far as I'm aware, all those engines used the same profile camshaft. The narrow lobes operating the valves are an inherent design problem. That is why VW are so particular about using oil of ther correct standard. valvetrain lubricatin on those engines is marginal.

or indeed any other VNT-equipped vehicles

Except my experience of indusrial VNT equiped engines that push 20+psi all day long?

Clogged vanes are a symptom of excessive soot/oil in the exhaust and not a sign of metallurgical failings of the turbo. The vanes can be cleaned and restored to correct operation.

Your constant misdiagnoses must have cost any that made the mistake of following them many hundreds of pounds.

As opposed to all the money you save by replacing a perfectly functional turbo? Garrett and Borg Warner make superb turbos that survive under far heavier duty than you're ever likely to find in a passenger car. Any statement to the contrary is baseless libel. Turbos fail because of poor lubrication, cooling or over speeding. That is a fault of the operator of the vehicle or the manufacturer of the engine.

as you've clearly never handled one; cam belts are not made of knicker elastic.

Might want to look at the PD cambelt a little more carefully. The teeth are not uniform al the way round the belt-because of the huge stress imposed upon it by the extra injector cam lobes.

vw passat 130pd - misfire/ problems - unthrottled

Quote from VW's PD engine study guide:

"...During the injection cycle, the high
pumping forces exert a heavy load on the
toothed belt.
The camshaft timing belt gear is slowed
down by the pumping forces. At the same
time, the combustion process speeds up
the crankshaft timing belt gear. The toothed
belt is stretched and the pitch is temporarily
increased as a result.
Because of the engine firing order, this
stretching process occurs at regular
intervals and the same teeth on the timing
belt gear are in mesh with the toothed belt
every time...."

vw passat 130pd - misfire/ problems - passat939

thanks for the advice , sorry u got into an argument !! , still got the problem ...... in the mornin it happens when i turn onto 1 road half a mile from my house then when i leave work it happens straight away !!!!! AAAAAAGGHHHH . why why why !!!!!!!

vw passat 130pd - misfire/ problems - passat939

timing belt has been changed , turbo was completely clogged with soot and the rear bearing had failed , thanks for the reply , just like to know why does it only do it once per trip ! really doin my head in . thanks again .