What 4x4 best suits? - dark86

we live 4 miles up crazy mountrain track in spain, and currently have a 1991 nissan patrol.

with a baby coming, we want to upgrade our 4x4;
something more comfy, better and faster on the roads.....but tough off road with low ratio too. short wheel base better but not too important.

the budget is 4k - 7k.

the rav4 and hondaCRV look too lame, the Xtrail is too big.

what about the terrano2, or the kia sorento?

pleae help, it is a mindfield out there.

respect, M
What 4x4 best suits? - RT

Xtrail is too big? They don't make any proper SUVs at that size or smaller.

What 4x4 best suits? - unthrottled

The Scandanavians cope perfectly well with front wheel drive cars in conditions far worse than you will find in Spain. Small, part time 4x4s are fashion statements and have no functional advantage to ordinary cars.

The dynamics of off tarmac are entirely different to on road and can never be reconciled. You need a front wheel drive car with high aspect ratio tyres-and that's it. You only need low ratio for towing and a small 4X4 isn't capable of towing much anyway. If you really need a small 'proper' 4x4, a defender 90 is tough to beat-but it is hopelessly compromised on road. If you need the off-road capability, you won't miss its poor on road dynamics. If you notice that it is thirsty, noisy and slow on road, you never needed it anyway.

I live on an unmade track and have never required a 4x4.

Edited by unthrottled on 03/07/2011 at 22:10

What 4x4 best suits? - gordonbennet

Landcruiser Colorado, Sorento (soft suspension for that track), and don't over look Hyundai Terracan.

Smaller 4x4's won't be up to it IMO, they'll cover the ground alright but won't be doing so when they are the age of your venerable Patrol....on which subject why not a newer Patrol, every bit as tough as an Amazon without the hefty price tag used.

What 4x4 best suits? - unthrottled

The size of the vehicle isn't an indication of its ability to tackle rough roads. The 2CV was exceptionally good offroad precisely because its curb weight was so low which, allied to it's soft suspension, enabled the flimsily built little Citroen to bounce around quite happily without falling apart. High aspect ratio tyres, softish suspension and a low weight are the elegant solution-a Chuck Norris style vehicle is not the best approach.

What 4x4 best suits? - WellKnownSid

We live up a crazy mountain track in Spain too... and we're about to get a Yeti 4x4 but to be honest we've managed perfectly well with normal cars.

Even our FIAT with zero ground-clearance is fine - you get used to steering around the rocks, although I do admit to a friend knocking a hole the size of an orange in her SEAT's sump when visiting last year - messy!

What does everyone else drive? Farmers around here tending the almendras/uvas use a Kangoo / Belingo / Partner, all front wheel drive. The older the better - they have narrower wheels.

The policia local all drive Nissan Patrols and Pathfinders.

Los ricos all drive Land Cruisers, but that probably doesn't help ;)

Are you registered for IVA?

Edited by WellKnownSid on 04/07/2011 at 07:19

What 4x4 best suits? - WellKnownSid

How about one of these? 7 seats, low mileage, low price, low range, but then again you do have to ask why there are never any high mileage ones around!

www.autoscout24.es/Details.aspx?id=196641958

What 4x4 best suits? - dark86

we are not registered for IVA - not sure why would need to be?

our track really is crazy, steep in places, rough, and in the wet it needs low ratio on occasion. most spanish tracks are just dusty the alpujarras can get very wet and snowy.

in places the track is kinda thin, and some of the turns are tight.....saying that my mates large toyota 4x4 (not sure what its called) makes it here.

i am starting to think the sorento is the one we are looking for....but it looks a little big.

thanks for the replies guys.

ps. if any of you live in spain, do you know the law for an english car in spain as i might buy in the uk as cheaper. i am in spain on a "non resident NIE".

respect, M

What 4x4 best suits? - dieseldogg
Actually whilst I would be all to ready to disparage the "incomers" to rural areas who profess the "need" for a $WD, having travelled through rural Spain & Portugal in 1999 I instantly understood the requirment for the 4*4 Panda.
Some bits were very rough (that is rough as understood by a farmers son btw) plus very steep plus very tight & congested.
hey the Galaxy managed fine in the summer, but in the harsh winters?
So a nimble light $*$ does make sense in some instances.
btw I am first & foremost a dedicated FWD with appropriate tyres man.
What 4x4 best suits? - dark86

"So a nimble light $*$ does make sense in some instances."

do you know any good ones from around 4k-7k you could recommend?


What 4x4 best suits? - dieseldogg

Sorry No,

completely uninformed about this specific aspect of the car market, in addition to my lack of knowledge/interest regarding car values generally.

But Dihatisu Terios?

Small Suziki?

Ps

The origional (petrol) 4*4 Panda had a Steyr designed transmission.

Bow down & worship

PPs

Renault Kangoo 4*4 version

ERM**************************************

See advert/review posted below for the 4*4 Panda

( I just noticed it)

Edited by dieseldogg on 04/07/2011 at 11:15

What 4x4 best suits? - WellKnownSid

Your NIE is nothing to do with residency... residency is!

If you're in Spain for more than 183 days in a calendar year, then you are resident. It's then illegal to buy and drive a UK plated car, just as it would be illegal to drive a Polish plated car if you were a UK resident, despite the obvious advantages such as saving on unimportant things like car insurance, MoTs, road tax, speeding fines, etc.

Only asked about IVA - if you worked here like I do, then you would be able to claim back 50-100% of the IVA on an IVA qualifying purchase. 18% makes the difference between a 7k budget and a 9k one...

Anyway, you NEED a Suzuki Jimny!

What 4x4 best suits? - unthrottled

Anyway, you NEED a Suzuki Jimny

What 4x4 best suits? - SteveLee

Panda 4x4. It'll do 95% of what a Jimny can do and will be a much, much better road car.

What 4x4 best suits? - unthrottled

I did consider the Panda but wondered about ground clearance. If it's no more than a standard car then it doesn't offer any real adavantage over FWD. I just can't imagine lack of traction being a real problem on anything other than a wet field or ice.

What 4x4 best suits? - WellKnownSid
An ordinary Panda can be easily had within the budget, but the 4x4 is rarer... 6k gets you a 2005 model with 50k on the clock.

Much more choice with a Jimny, but you'd be looking at a similar age and possibly double the kms with that budget.

But, unthrottled is quite correct, ground clearance is the key. There is nothing more bizarre than walking our dogs gingerly up an impossible mountain track, and having scrabbled to the very top in our best climbing boots finding ourselves staring at one of these parked up as the owner tends some trees:

www.autoscout24.es/Details.aspx?id=193754928
What 4x4 best suits? - dadbif
We used to live at the top of a crazy Spanish mountain track, before moving here 4 years ago.

Our vehicle of choice was a Citroen Berlingo, coped with everything including snow, ground clearance was adequate if you are sensible and steer around the biggest rocks, however, you may find the 4wd version made by Peugeot a better choice, not many around, but the have a higher ground clearance than the standard Berlingo/partner.

Easy to spot, the clearance between wheel and wheelarch is greater as the body
Sits higher.
What 4x4 best suits? - KB.

"however, you may find the 4wd version made by Peugeot a better choice, not many around, but the have a higher ground clearance than the standard Berlingo/partner....
Easy to spot, the clearance between wheel and wheelarch is greater as the body sits higher"

You're not not getting confused with the 4x4 Renault Kangoo, are you?

Agreed the Peugeot Partner Escapade had higher ground clearance along with flimsy metal protectors over the headlights..but was only ever 2WD. uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/peug...l

The Renault was the Kangoo Trekka 4x4 . (Mistakenly referred to as Trakka on my link) No longer made though.

www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/19560...l

There is/was a Peugeot Partner 4x4 conversion done privately by Dangel, but only on the Continent. Never readily available in the UK.

Edited by KB. on 05/07/2011 at 23:05

What 4x4 best suits? - SteveLee

The 4x4 Panda has two inches extra ground clearance over the standard car which is already generous for the class of car. It also has sump and exhaust guards, it really is a very capable off roader with superb road manners compared to other baby 4x4s. Watch the baby Panda running a Rangey close here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAg4DdXAp7Y&feature=re...d

What 4x4 best suits? - unthrottled

Embarrassing, isn't it? In reality the Panda caned the Rangie. Still the Evoque will restore Range Rover's lost pride...

What 4x4 best suits? - jamie745

You're really stuck on that Evoque at the moment arent you!

What 4x4 best suits? - unthrottled

Well, when you think back to the original Range Rover classic that had class leading capability and understated elegance, the Evoque is a bit sad.

Bit like Citroen trying to jazz up the PSA cars and succeedingonly in making them ugly. The Citroen Xantia might have been blandly styled but the hydropneumatic suspension worked well, they were dirt cheap and many of them clocked by stunning mileages with few mechanical problems. I'd be proud to own one, I really would. But a DS3 with a fuschia pink roof??

What 4x4 best suits? - jamie745

Its funny you mention the Xantia because that was actually my guess at what you drive.

You can think more recently too, the Range Rover Sport is a perfectly fine car but does it have anything over the normal one? If anything slightly less practicality but massive rims, but Rangey's modern day clientelle are the rich and famous celebrities, the Katie Prices, the Colleen Rooney's etc. I dont think when the original was built they had that in mind!

What 4x4 best suits? - KB.

Don't disagree, but what's the likihood of finding a good Panda 4x4 (either the 1.2 petrol or the 1.3 'Cross' diesel) at the right price price? (or at any price). They seem few and far between and those that you see are top money compared to when they were new, due, obviously, to their rarity value. Add in to the equation finding one within, say, 100 or 200 miles of where you live.....and finally, the colour you like, you really are asking a lot. If I also mentioned mileage you'd say I was asking for the earth.

The Terios is no longer sold new....and, of course, nor are any other Daihatsu's so you'd think twice before paying out for a car whose manufacturer have withdrawn from the UK.

Which leaves the Jimny. Plenty used in all the colours and all the sizes, but a bit tricky new, as I gather. Lots of admirers (whose number don't include Landrover owners, who regard them with scorn and derision, on the whole, judging by the abuse and bad mouthing on their forums.)

The Suzuki SX's and the Fiat equivalent 4x4's are pretty rare and probably not what's being asked for.

A friend has a 3 door Grand Vitara which managed his, quarter mile off the main road, steep snowy lane where the other two wheel drive cars didn't. (But they MIGHT have done better with winter tyres, of course).

I have a 2WD Yeti and have a set of winter tyres and steel wheels but haven't had it through the winter yet, and I don't live up a Spanish unmade lane....so haven't really contributed much, I'm afraid.