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Zero HC and CO from LPG!!! - Guy Lacey
I just thought many of you avid HJ guys would like to know that after many sleepless nights by Guy and David Lacey, ably assisted by Dave Mahoney, the prize-winning* Golf GTI of mine has achieved near zero CO and HC readings running on LPG - at £14.00 Sterling for over 11 gallons!!!!!!

Roll on petrol duty - LPG is here to stay. (Guy LOVES Duty Escalator!!!!!)

BTW - my HC reading was 1000% less than that coming out of Dave Mahoney's fast as ***k BMW M5 although the Golf has only a third of the power........maybe good old petrol has a use!!!!!! Hang on - - - - project 2001 - M5 with 400bhp on LPG??????? I'll keep u posted (sideways).

[Dave Mahoney's hearing has been retarded due to plenum chamber explosion during M5 LPG experimentals - please adhere to HSE Hearing Protection Action Levels and supply necessary protection!]
LPG and tax - Micky
And, of course, Gordon Brown and his minions would not dream of taxing LPG if it became popular

M
Re: LPG and tax - David Woollard
Micky,

Us Citroen lovers even think of the same posts, you saved me the trouble.

David
Telepathetic (iz ther a problem wiv mi spellin?) - Micky
No text here (so that was a waste of a click!)

hur,hur

M
Re: LPG and tax - Stuart B
And being polite we will not mention the higher CO2 emissions/mile compared to diesels. BTW have heard there are few pro diesel seagulls in W S Mare :-)

This is getting silly, via both Citroens and diesel vs rest in four. How the hell is Vin going to get his world record?
Decent LPG Conversions - David Lacey
And if anybody out there is looking for a decent and capable LPG Conversion Company, (soon to be LPGA Approved) try D & N Autogas at Weston-Super-Mare on 01934 750077 or 07788 140120.
Cars to their credit include BMW 750iL (V12 with TWO engine management systems, Which everybody said was impossible to convert), BMW M3, Ford Explorer and a host of other run of the mill cars)
Re: Decent LPG Conversions - Tim T
Has anyone experience of converting diesels? I presume it still needs some oil to give ignition.
Primary School Maths! - Guy Lacey
I WAS EXAGGERATING - OK??????????

As an answer to the particulates (sensible) query rather than a smug pseudo-academic response from some concrete carbuncle-Uni on the top of some hill.

I work on a site with a power generation plant burning heavy fuel oil and natural gas - in the region of 2000-3000 Tonnes per month total fuel. We only have to report to the Environment Agency any particulate emissions on the burning of the HFO. Emissions of particulates are negligible when on natural gas (along with zero sulphur dioxide and considerably (many %!) less nitrogen oxides.

I know my *prize-winning* Golf GTI may not have the control regimes as tacked onto the power plant but it is likely that this holds true.
Re: Zero HC and CO from LPG!!! - Rogerb
Please, Sir what does "1000% less" mean ???

Guy Lacey wrote:
>
> BTW - my HC reading was 1000% less than that coming out of
> Dave Mahoney's fast as ***k BMW M5 although the Golf has only
> a third of the power........maybe good old petrol has a
> use!!!!!! Hang on - - - - project 2001 - M5 with 400bhp on
> LPG??????? I'll keep u posted (sideways).
LPG doubters - Guy Lacey
Well, regardless of how many Albert Einsteins there are out there and how many people claim Gordon Brown will raise duty on LPG to match petrol - i.e raising duty by 45p/Litre in one go (more than 100% for you boffins) - I will be saving half my original fuel cost as of October 2001. If duty is to be raised on LPG, which I realistically expect it to, it will always be relative to the other fuels and petrol and diesel will always be seen as more polluting and therefore taxed higher.

As for "....more CO2 per mile than diesel" - what about the much higher levels of benzene (carcinogenic by the way) in unleaded petrol - and the levels of PM10's in diesel emissions???

Not being an expert in these matters but I suspect the higher level of CO2, if true, is due to a cleaner burn as a poor burn of fuel leads to the production of CO due to the stoichiometry of the fuel mix and also leads to unburned fuel - i.e. HC's which my LPG mota runs on negligible emissions (-1000%!!! i.e. 1 tenth of the aforementioned M5.)

Oh, and I don't live in Weston Super Mare thank you!!! (but well remembered)

Long live LPG. (& Taunton!)
LPG fuel duty - David Lacey
The fuel duty on LPG in the UK has been frozen by some EU agreement or instruction for 4 years, apparently, to encourage the UK over to a cleaner fuel.
Re: PM10s - Stuart B
All vehicles produce particulates its just the size that matters which is a result of the type of atomisation in the exhaust gas. There is no evidence that PM10s are harmful, research is currently looking at PM2.5s. Evidence suggests that there are as much PM2.5s produced by petrols as diesels at this size.

Nobody really knows what particulates and in what quantity they are produced by gas cars. Why because nobody thought to look for them! Everyone just fell in with the environmentalists thet because you could see a load of black gunk coming out of a No47 bus that it must be bad for you. However the pro petrol and gas lobby are not so smug today.

However I am sure of one thing that your *award winning* GTI is actually running far smoother on gas than jungle juice. Now you just need a spur running off the gas line to get a flame thrower for those seagulls, while you are about it get a few cormorants for me, see other thread.
Re: Zero HC and CO from LPG!!! - Alan
Sorry Guy Lacey but you would fail primary school maths . You can not have 1000% less of anything. A percentage is out of 100.
Re: Primary school maths and CO/CO2 - Stuart B
I had assumed that 1000% less meant that either Guy had measured the ambient atmosphere CO content and his beloved GTI was actually due to the "wonderfuel" combustion process was converting this into CO2, ie exhaust cleaner than the air ingested, or it was case of journalistic licence, which I too am guilty of many a time so I can forgive Guy that for the sake of a laugh.

However Guy I missed answering you when you questioned whether the increased CO2/mile is true compared to diesels. Yes it is true refer to Govt websites.

Its all down to the relative thermal efficiency of the two combustion processes ie spark vs compression ignition. And as anyone who knows me will remember thermodynamics and transport processes is/was a subject that I a) disliked intensely and b) was completely and utterly useless at, so cue for a post from someone who could actually spell out properly the reasons for the difference in the efficiency of the two engines.

Re Tims question on converting diesels to run on gas, this was covered before and the concensus was that on a small diesel it just was not cost effective.
Re: Primary school maths and CO/CO2 - Chris
Stuart B wrote:

> However Guy I missed answering you when you questioned
> whether the increased CO2/mile is true compared to diesels.
> Yes it is true refer to Govt websites.

It is NOT true by a very long way when compared to Biodiesel. But our government does nothing, because they depend on the sale of oil and the stability of OPEC. All currently available diesels could run on Biodiesel with no (or very minor) modification. Instant reduction in CO2 of about 98 per cent per mile (assuming the tractors harvesting the stuff don't run on it to start with) Meanwhile, the farming goes down the toilet. Insane?

Chris
Re: Primary school maths and CO/CO2 - Stuart B
We have had this discussion before Chris and of course you are quite right, but what does the industry do with the fraction of crude oil which comes out as diesel anyway?

Yes you can make significant inroads, but biodiesel is not the total answer. For example what about the natural gas which is flared off at oil rigs because the oil companies cannot be bothered to do anything about it. Yet this gas could be converted to synthetic fuel.

While ever the major polluter in the world, ie George Dubbelya, has the attitude currently sadly we are on a loser. However I agree this does not mean that some attempt should not be made to try and sort it properly a bit at a time.

Re converting cars to bio, I think the only modification needed is to the seals in the fuel system, and certainly all VAG group cars are OK as delivered.
LPG/Diesel - Chris
Actually, it's not as bad as it seems - a by-product of making LPG is Diesel...

Chris
Re: LPG/Diesel - John Kenyon
Chris wrote:
>
> Actually, it's not as bad as it seems - a by-product of
> making LPG is Diesel...

No - LPG, Petrol, Diesel, Bunker Oil, Bitumen all come from the same
feedstock - crude oil.

The only thing that changes is the ratio when you change oil type -
lighter crude (or crude pumped directly from the well to the refinery)
will give you more of the higher fractions (i.e. LPG end or the range).

Heavy crude gives you more of the lower fractions (i.e. bunker oil/bitumen).

/John (scratching his head remembering his O & A level chemistry)
Re: LPG/Diesel - Chris
Should have been clearer - one of the usable fractions they take off from producing LPG is diesel. Heard this from an oil engineer at Esso. He *should* know, but then maybe he was just setting my mind at rest...

Chris
Re: Guys motor - Jonathan Livingston Seagull
I'm coming to get you, check email address! ;-)
Re: Guys motor - Tarzan
You think you have problems...

Imagine what monkeys can do to a paintjob.
Re: Monkey Business - Dai Watchalowski
Hey I used to employ a Monkey in my paint shop......Kept finding his nuts in the mix......
Trying to make a diesel run on LPG - David Lacey
We tried to make a diesel run exclusively on LPG. It was a V8 6.5 Litre diesel (GM I think). We removed the air inlet pipe and arranged a gas feed into the airstream whilst backing off the diesel supply. Net result was lots of horrible knocking noises!
Needless to say, we didn't pursue this conversion any further..........
Re: Trying to make a diesel run on LPG - Chris
Oh, they will run on it - many buses already do. But converting them is v. expensive - they need a new engine specially built (reinforced?) for it.

Chris
Re: Trying to make a diesel run on LPG - Brian
I think that you will find that the ratio of the various products from refining crude oil can be manipulated to a certain extent by the introduction of hydrogen into the cracker tower, which has the effect of increasing the ratio of lighter products e.g. petrol in the summer when demand for heating oil (same item as diesel) is lower.
Re: Trying to make a diesel run on LPG - John Kenyon
Brian wrote:
>
> I think that you will find that the ratio of the various
> products from refining crude oil can be manipulated to a
> certain extent by the introduction of hydrogen into the
> cracker tower, which has the effect of increasing the ratio
> of lighter products e.g. petrol in the summer when demand for
> heating oil (same item as diesel) is lower.

You're talking about cat cracking (where long chain HC's
are broken into smaller ones).

My post was just talking about fractional distillation, (i.e.
separating out the long/med/short HCs)

IIRC cat cracking requires more energy than distillation.

/John
 

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