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HJ's answer in last weeks (15th April) Telegraph concerns me. I'd post a link but this site won't let me.
Upshot is HJ's fuzzy answer implies that vehicles on the motorway should give way and makes no mention of rule 259 requirement for vehicles coming along the slip road to "check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow".
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As traffic on the slip road has to cross a line and move into another lane, it MUST give way to traffic already on the motorway BUT that doesn't mean that traffic already on the motorway has a RIGHT to do nothing.
Driving with care and consideration for other road users means that traffic already on the motorway should move over if it's safe and practical to do so - driving without care and consideration is an offence.
The driver already on the motorway may be able to see fast overtaking traffic approaching him from behind making it unsafe to move over so the driver on the slip road must NEVER EXPECT other traffic to move out of their way.
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I think your central concept is sound RT, but my concern really is that the joining vehicle can then come to expect the 'incumbent' to move over. I see this quite alot in my (rural) part of the country - joiners seem to have lost the ability (through lack of practice & ignorance) to match & merge & can only blinder their way onto the main carriageway - very,very dangerous in my opinion. I've seen numerous examples of this locally & only luck has saved their bacon.
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The dangerous complication is when a driver tailgates you down the sliproad and then pulls onto the motorway to overtake you just as you're about to join it yourself.
But my worst motorway joining experience was when I was travelling along abusy motorway on the inside lane when a car which had been stopped on the hard shoulder pulled out in front of me, from a standstill, as if leaving a parking place! They had a clear hard shoulder ahead of them for miles, to build up speed - but no, they had to move straight out into lane 1 at about 5 mph! I had to slam on the brakes, hooting the horn and flashing my lights, as I couldn't move over as there was traffic near me in lane 2.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 21/04/2011 at 11:57
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"come to expect the incumbent to move over" is just incompetence - the driver joining the motorway cannot usually see what's overtaking the vehicles in lane 1, which prevent them from moving out.
I've long thought that driving standards are too low but it would be political suicide for any government to set the bar any higher.
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To be fair, the driving test is more involved than it used to be 'back in the day', and accident rates are very low by historical and international standards.
There's not to say that there aren't some bad drivers around! But I always hesitate to demand for harder testing. People demanding such tests tend to assume that they themselves won't have to complete them.
I think it is courteous for drivers in the inside to move out-and would expect them to do so where it is safe. Clearly, a driver entering from the slip road shouldn't blunder on regardless. I don't really see the big debate.
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Taken to its extreme HJ's advice would mean that when traffic is stopped, which is often near junctions, the motoway trafiic should all stop and allow the slip road priority.
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Taken to extremes, most rules become absurd. Slip roads are often short, and it is undesirable for cars to have to slow down to ~40 mph in order to merge onto the motorway. Often it is easier for cars travelling in the inside lane to check their mirrors and move out thus middle lane. As posters have noted, this isn't always possible. Common sense is required.
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To be truthful, most joiners could easily merge, either by braking a bit, or by accelerating a bit. But no, a fair number stooge out, forcing the car already on the motorway to brake; the then accelerate leaving the car they caused to slow wondering why they could not have accelerated on the slip and caused no slowing of anyone.
The advice in the highway code is fine, and there is always an element of give and take, but as the OP notes, a fair number of joiners appear never to have read it.
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Maybe it would be an idea to include motorways in the driving lessons at some stage, if convenient (if the student lives near one or something) because currently you cant drive on them on L's, but you can pass your test and go on them yourself with no training on the matter. Yes theres pages of it in the books you get given but its never gone into in any real depth with instructors.
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The art of *competent* driving is disappearing, motorway joining is but one of many things...competent overtaking for example has become a very rare pleasure to observe.
The most amusing thing is that all the way up the slip road and acceleration lane these people are in their own little world, wholly incapable of seeing or sensing anything else around them.
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Absolutely, gb.
The majority never even look in their mirrors, they automatically assume they have right of way and make no attempt to match their speed to join the motorway.
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The art of *competent* driving is disappearing
I don't think there was ever a 'golden age' of motoring standards. Modern cars spoil drivers and tend to make them a bit lazy, but the actual standard of driving is higher than ever before. Accident rates bear this out. It's just that now there the roads are more congested so poor driving is more noticeable.
Some of the most er...'experienced' drivers are the biggest menaces on the roads-and their insurance premiums reflect this.
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Always makes me smile (unless I'm behind them!) how many drivers slow down before they reach the slip road to exit a MWay.
Why don't they understand that the object of having a slip road (as opposed to a simple exit junction) is so you can slow down when you are on it before reaching the junction & so that you don't have an adverse impact on the speed of the rest of the MWay traffic?????
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I always try and move over for joiners when safe to do so. However, I currently drive a 1.4 Berlingo and before that had the 2.2d Nissan Serena, possibly two of the worlds slowest accelerating vehicles. So for me the biggest wind up is when I move over for someone,expecting them to let me overtake and then pull back in, only to have them match my acceleration inch for inch, leaving me out in no-mans land...At best, downright rude..At worst,downright dangerous!!
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i enjoyed reading that . in fact read it loud to swmbo.
i always felt the responsibility lay with vehicle joining motorway to fit in safely.
but remember it takes two to have an accident
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HJ's answer to15-April newspaper query was incorrect, the answer given is selectively extracted from the highway code but completely out of context, and wrong.
The answer provided is the most complained about and the number 1 most dangerous action that lorry drivers complain about. Ask any driver of a 40+ ton lorry who is in the inside lane with nowhere to go and someone pulls out in front of them, same goes for any vehicle in the same situation. Drivers are forced to ram on their brakes, shattered nerves for the rest of the day/week, crashes, litres of fuel (cost) wasted for a large lorry as they try to get up to speed again, the list goes on.
The highway codes states :
Driving on the motorway - Rule 259
Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should
- give priority to traffic already on the motorway
- check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
- not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder
- stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
- remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking
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Mike-You're presenting a flase dichotomy
Nobody disputes that traffic on the motorway has priority.
Nobody advocates barging in causing drivers to brake.
But if it is safe to do so, it improves traffic flow if traffic in the inside lane moves over. With a bit of thought nobody has to do any braking, and everyone's fuel economy is maximised and stress is minimised. The problem is drivers who settle into the inside lane, set the cruise control to 55 and mentally switch off.
If there is high density traffic in the inside lane, it is impossible to seamlessly merge unless someone in the inside lane either brakes or moves over. It's in no one's interest for vehicles on the slip road to reach the end of the slip road and brake to 40 odd mph because some swine couldn't be bothered to move over. Who cares what official rule is-awareness and courtesy are all that are required.
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who cares what the official rule is-awareness and courtesy are all that are required?
meanwhile back in the real world, maybe if more people cared about the rules their would be fewer accidents,
Edited by stampy on 22/04/2011 at 04:52
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Not sure of the exact figure he used, but my driving instructor said good driving was 90% manners.
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I always find people who are not confident merging cause most of the problems. Generally this manifests itself in either going to slowly to join the flow of traffic or slowing down when they should be accelerating on to the motorway. This is not ignorant behaviour rather a lack of the skills/confidence needed. The solution mandatory motorway driving test.
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Maybe they'd be more confident if they knew people were going to let them in!! It's the fear of running out of road-especially combined with a gutless engine that turns them into dithering wrecks.
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Maybe they'd be more confident if they knew people were going to let them in!! It's the fear of running out of road-especially combined with a gutless engine that turns them into dithering wrecks.
Most (although not all) slip roads have adequate length for even the most "gutless" of engines to achieve a reasonable speed and once this speed is achieved its a simple matter of adjusting it to merge.
Having driven many gutless cars including a yugo and a fiesta for many years I can say that i have never had a problem merging with a clear slip road.
The problems come when the person infront of you (normally in a much more powerful car) decides 35mph is enough speed to join the flow off traffic traveling 70mph, thus causing me in my "gutless" car (having given plenty of room to the car in front) to slow down with no hope of regaining the proper speed.
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I can't believe anyone would voluntarily join a Motorway at 35mph. You're quite right about even an underpowered car having enough oomph to get up to motorway speed. I still maintain that the ditherers hang back because they're waiting for the inside lane traffic to let them in. They're damned if they sit on the slip road at 35, and they're damned if they barge into somebody elses braking space.
There are a lot of short slip roads with sharp bends around though-M56 (12) for starters.
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Short slip roads with poor visibilty and busy dual carriageways can be almost impossible to join safely.
The A14 in Cambridgeshire frequently has nose-to-tail trucks doing 56mph in the inside lane, and nose to tail cars doing 70 mph in the outside lane. Some of the slips are very short and are just after bends.
There's not enough room between the trucks to join safely, because they drive far too close to each other, and they can't move over to let joiners in because the outside lane is full.
In these circumstances, the *only* safe thing to do is stop on the slip road and wait until there's a gap big enough to join safely. It's much safer than getting squashed between the line of trucks thuindering along.
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Most slip roads have two lanes, so if a ditherer is on the slip road in front of you, it is quite simple to overtake them before reaching the motorway.
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Not always. If they're doing 40, you need to overtake at much more than 40 to make sure you're safely past them before they start to merge. Result: you hit end of slip road at ~70. Traffic in inside lane is doing 55. Whoops! Been there, done that myself....
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maybe if more people cared about the rules their would be fewer accidents
Really? So if someone misjudges their speed and pulls out in front of me, I 'll just keep going at a constant speed, because the law says I have right of way, right? It's their insurance claim anyway...
If a car on the opposite side of the carriageway is trying to turn right, and there's a queue of traffic building up behind, I won't bother seeing if I can let them turn by making a minor correction to my speed. No that would require thought on my part and I like nice simple binary rules.
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Compared to Australia, where I am, the UK drivers merging seems excellent. My pet hate over here is when some hooligan in a V8 comes howling down the slip road, undertakes everyone on the motorway at an illegal speed, cuts in front of them and then straight over to the fast lane where he roars off into the distance. Often they travel in packs of two or three making it even worse.
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maybe if more people cared about the rules their would be fewer accidents
Really? So if someone misjudges their speed and pulls out in front of me, I 'll just keep going at a constant speed, because the law says I have right of way, right? It's their insurance claim anyway...
If a car on the opposite side of the carriageway is trying to turn right, and there's a queue of traffic building up behind, I won't bother seeing if I can let them turn by making a minor correction to my speed. No that would require thought on my part and I like nice simple binary rules.
on which page of the highway code does it say not to adjust your speed as required?
where does it say not to allow traffic to turn right if it is safe to do so?
from your comment, "who cares about the rules" its ok to drive through red lights, drive at 70 mph through a thirty zone, morgues have plenty of victims of those with exactly the same line of thought,
Edited by stampy on 22/04/2011 at 23:10
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There are some nasty slip roads around. One close to me does not allow a view of the traffic on the motorway until you are virtually at the end of the slip. You have two choices, you either approach the end of the slip with the intention of stopping. Trouble is, if you see the road is clear, you have to join the motorway at less that ideal speed. This is when you risk getting taken out by an HGV who was just out of sight when you joined. The other option is you aim to hit motorway speed at the end of the slip, only to find your way blocked. You therefore have to jam on the brakes to stop, after which you have to try and join from a standstill which is a very uncomfortable experience on a busy motorway.
The system used in some other countries gets round this problem by dropping to two lanes past the junction with the inside lane taking you off and on before and after the junction. (I know there are some examples in the UK). There are obviously drawbacks as a lot of traffic would be moving across to the middle and outside lanes before each exit.
With normal long slip roads though, merging with traffic at motorway speeds is not really difficult. All you need to be aware of is the position of the vehicles in the inside lane.
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