Drinking & Driving ... - Ian (Cape Town)
Unfortunate to read that one of the regulars has been caught.
Also, TerryB, the "there but for the Grace of God" remark rings true.
Living in a land where D&D is a commonplace event (yes, even I'm over the limit on occasions) I'll throw in my tuppence worth...

I'm sorry that the young man got nicked, but hopefully he will now be a better driver because of it, and will NEVER DO IT AGAIN!

I wonder how many serial d&d'ers, who never get caught, end up killing folk, whereas the short, sharp shock would stop then doing so for ever.
Drinking & Driving ... - Slice
Like many, I drove when over the limit many times when younger. I used to rationalise this by the fact that I lived in the middle of nowhere so what where the chances of being caught or causing an accident.

Then a good friend did get caught and lost his licence and soon after, as he had a 20 mile drive to work, his job. Depression set in and got to the point where his girlfriend decided she had had enough. Then was caught (twice) driving whilst banned, so the ban was extended. About 18 months after the start of all this he committed suicide probably due to a combination of things, but this episode must have been part of the problem.

An extreme outcome perhaps, but all the above is true.

I was lucky. I never got caught and never hurt anyone.

I realised during this time (entirely selfishly) how much I had to potentially lose and since then, no D&D at all. Simply isn't worth the possible consequences.
Drinking & Driving ... - BrianW
IMHO the UK is too quick to impose bans.
Most other European countries impose fines with no ban unless an offence (d + d plus many others) is really serious.

Loss of licence, plus perhaps job, for a single indiscretion, often a first offence, is too draconian. The effects can, as described above, be far out of proportion to the damage caused.

Licence loss for medical reasons may be equally devastating, as evidenced by the discovery of a hanged suicide by my daughter earlier this year. The reason was being told to stop driving due to Parkinsons disease.
Drinking & Driving ... - Clear Spot
o.k - people still do it and some get caught. My impression is that D&D'ing (at least in the U.K.) has become socially unacceptable. When I were a lad (?) we didn't bother much (and yes I was lucky to not get caught or worse), but now my kids and their friends just won't consider driving after just one drink. Can't say the same of some acquaintances of my generation though.

Drinking & Driving ... - Armitage Shanks{P}
Derby police have just opened a hotline, full of seasonal cheer, where one can ring up and give information about anybody who one thinks is, or might be intending, to drink drive. Bearing in mind the number of hoax calles there were during the recent fire strikes one wonders what scope this gives for more mischief making? I also wonder if the police will be as keen to spend manpower staking out the homes of known burglars, paedophiles, fag and booze runners and other low lifes! Probably not! They also revealed that over 8000 people were stopped and tested last year and of these 114 were under the influence of drink/drugs or refused a test. Is 114 out of 8000 tests, taken at random and presumably not at accidents in all cases, a worthwhile expenditure of scarce resources? Drink/driving is socially unacceptable and rightly so but so are mugging, burglary, assault and firearms offences; what efforts are being made to control these, 12 months a year, never mind at Xmas? Not a lot in the East Midlands!
Drinking & Driving ... - BrianW
I get the impression that the route I use through north London has as much a drug and drive problem as a drink and drive one.

Arrest rates for drugged driving are much lower though. Much more chance of being stopped down the road from a country pub than down Camden High Street!
Drinking & Driving ... - CM
I think that there is a big difference between being a little over the limit and being 2 to 3 times over. I am not condoning D&D and the limit in place is a sensible one. Some are uncareful and get caught when they creep over the limit but it is those that blatantly disregard the limit who should really have the book thrown at them.

Having said that, the limit is there and it should not be too hard to keep to it. If in doubt.....

I don't mean to be pious as having worked and lived in Bordeaux the amount of D&D is (or rather was) very worrying.
Drinking & Driving ... - Dave N
Not condoning DD, but I find it a little strange that you can be done for an offence that you don't necessarily know you've committed. Sure if you can't stand up you can be reasonably sure you're over the limit. But what about the morning after? How can you tell if you are over the limit. You have 4 pints up till 11.00pm, go to bed, next morning at what point are you fit again? 9.00am? 10.00am? How can you tell as we have no way of testing ourselves. You know if you're speeding or parking on a yellow line, but no way on earth can you tell when you're below the limit again.
Drinking & Driving ... - mark
Hey Ho the season of christmas cheer is upon and in Halton we are all eagerly looking forward to the annual christmas police terror where they set up roadblocks on certain roads and stop vehicles for "tyre and light checks" culminating in the production of a breatherlyser into which all those stopped are invited to blow.

The average number of officers at each road block is 6 and I suppose the point is "we are here so don,t D&D" but last year after stopping over 6 thousand vehicles the figure for those prosecuted didnt even reach double figures.

Have'nt they worked out from these figures that the proportion of those commiting an offence of they type they are trying to detect is miniscule and that their less than 10% burglary clear up rate might in some way be linked.

as ever

Drinking & Driving ... - Obsolete
My own opinion is that I would never D&D simply because the penalties are so severe. If it was just a fine, I might (just might) risk it if I thought I was okay to drive. So I feel that the current punitive regime is a good thing, despite the very sad story related above.

As for the morning after, I suspect you are okay after 4 pints. It is when you have downed 10 pints that you worry. And how often do you do that?
Drinking & Driving ... - shaun
Personally, i think that the limit for drink driving should be "o" then if you have even a single drink you are over the limit. Although i do agree that knowing you are over the limit the morning after can be a bit dodgy, but you can now buy personal breathalisers to help you. I also once read in a magazine that it takes roughly an hour for the alcohol from each pint of beer to work its way out of your system.
Drinking & Driving ... - cockle {P}
Lots of good points, as one would expect here.
I too feel that D&D is one of the few crimes that you can commit without the specific intent, when are you totally sober from the night before? The offence then carries a mandatory minimum sentence, no leeway for the JP's to make a reasoned judgement as to what the penalty should be to fit the circumstances. Personally I feel that there should be a lesser penalty below a disqualification for those who are marginally over the limit and could conceivably not realise it. However I also feel that the offence for causing death whilst over the limit should be equated to manslaughter, that might sober a few people up.

One of the most interesting things I have heard recently on this subject was that Essex Police are offering breath tests to commuters at Liverpool Street station so that they know whether or not they are fit to drive home from the station after their Xmas parties. This can be looked at in two ways; are you encouraging those who are just under to drive when they might not have taken the risk, thus increasing the chance of an accident; or, are the police carrying out a useful exercise in crime prevention?

As to whether the limit should be zero, would zero really be zero? After all if I was tested when I left home in the morning would I fail a zero test due to the alcohol in my mouthwash, or my aftershave, or in my cough medicine?
Before anyone asks, no, I don't drink my aftershave!!

Drinking & Driving ... - Dizzy {P}
I'm a half-pint of shandy at wedding receptions drinker myself, so won't comment on the rights and wrongs. However, I will relate the tale of a close relative who got 'caught'.

He drank quite heavily (and still does) but always left his car at home, or he would leave it at the pub and get a taxi home. He was determined not to drink and drive.

Unfortunately he wrote off his car one morning on the way to work, having had a few pints the night before, and was found to be over the DD limit. He lost the £3000 value of his car because he only had TP&T insurance, he was fined (I forget how much) and he had his licence taken away for a year. Losing his licence hit him hard because he loved his car and needed it to get to work, also he was used to driving 20,000 'pleasure' miles per year.

He was amazed that he was still over the limit the morning after but says that the law is the law and he accepted the punishment without complaint. And, of course, three years on he is still paying the price in hiked up insurance premiums.
Drinking & Driving ... - teabelly
Roughly speaking one unit of alcohol takes one hour to leave your body so if you have 4 pints of normal strength beer (ie around 3%), then it will take around 8 hours for it to leave your system. This assumes that you are average in every way and that your liver and other bits and pieces are working correctly. Consumption of food and all sorts of other things will affect the way in which you process alcohol. The only way to be pretty certain about being under the next morning is to probably only have a single pint of beer or equivalent. If you are going to drive within a few hours then it is probably best not to drink at all as even if you are under the limit it will affect your ability to drive anyway.

Drinking & Driving ... - andymc {P}
Last time I was in my local Halfords I saw a little breathalyser kit for sale at the checkout counter. I can't remember what it was called and it seemed to be a one-use-only device, but it was under a fiver. Probably a small price to pay for the knowledge that now would be a good time to call in sick.
Drinking & Driving ... - teabelly
Just found this device which seems like a regular use kind of thing. Not sure whether the police would take a dim view of anyone with one of them in their pocket: www.alcoholcomputer.co.uk/insidemkIII.html
Drinking & Driving ... - Jonathan {p}
Just to put some further information on this...

Stella Artois and other premium beers are much stronger than you may think.

A bottle of 330ml stella contains 1.7 units. Drink 4 pints and you have consumed 12 units, which will take 12 hours to clear (starting at the time you finished the first half). Start at 9pm and drive at 7am and you could be in trouble.

Does anyone know, roughly, how much is the limit in terms of units for an 'average' person?

Drinking & Driving ... - Hugo {P}

I think we're talking 4 units, but that's not a hard and fast measure.

I'm 6'4" and 18st and I get tipsy at that anyway.

Drinking & Driving ... - Jonathan {p}

does anyone think a sobriety test would be a better way of judging impairment?
Drinking & Driving ... - BrianW
I tend to agree that a sobriety or competence test would be a better option since:
1. Different people are affected to a greater extent by the same amount of alcohol
2. It would be applicable to drugs as well as drink
3. It would highlight medical unfitness as well as impairment by substances.

So long as it doesn't involve standing on one leg: I can't do that even when sober.
Drinking & Driving ... - Bromptonaut
Stella Artois and other premium beers are much stronger than you
may think.

A useful reminder (written with a glass of Pelforth, 5.8%abv by my side)
Does anyone know, roughly, how much is the limit in terms
of units for an 'average' person?

This really is too difficult to call. Hugo's 4 units is oft quoted and i beleived it in the past. At 5ft 9 and eight and a half stone wet through I was very lucky not to be caught. One unit an hour is the only safe limit, but even then; there are plenty of studies showing how, even below the limit judgement is seriously impaired.
Drinking & Driving ... - Maz
I wonder if anyone else has found the police a little heavy handed in this area.

Last year I was stopped and asked if I'd has anything to drink. I replied 'Yes a can of beer earlier in the evening'. The young officer decided to breathalise me, but the problem was he didn't have a breathaliser, so had to radio for one.

Fair enough, the best part of an hour later he explained the system and I blew. The light came on orange, but he didn't like it, so made me do it all over again. He took ages to reset it and this time he held it away from me after I'd blown.

Modelling himself on Chris Tarrant he said 'confident?', keeping the unit where I couldn't see it. I really think he was enjoying himself. It was now 1.30 in the morning (I was stopped at 12.00) and wanted to go home.

Knowing I hadn't lied Inspector flippin' Morse then radioed to check my car wasn't stolen (an 18 year old VW Polo!) before finally flourishing a producer for good measure.

The moral of the story? If you say you've had a drink the police will always breathalise you. Next time I'll lie and save myself a couple of hours.
Drinking & Driving ... - Jonathan {p}
>The moral of the story? If you say you've had a drink the police will always breathalise you. Next time I'll lie and save myself a couple of hours.

Probably based on the concept that only a drunk would answer yes!
Drinking & Driving ... - Hugo {P}
Just think how many real D&Ds he could have caught in that 90 mins!

Drinking & Driving ... - superannuated rocker
A medical dictionary I have details the calculation for reaching the Dd limit. The answer for a person of normal stature is 3 and a half pints of normal strength beer (say 3.5%). However before you make use of this information be aware that many beers are much stronger than this. I would suggest exceeding two pints is pushing your luck.
Drinking & Driving ... - terryb
First of all, apologies to Mark for straying from the point on the earlier thread (there I go again....)

I must say I'm a reformed character now but yes, in my mad younger years (pre-breathalyser) it wasn't unknown for me to drive home from the pub after a few over the eight. Luckily I never got caught nor did I hurt anything or anyone.

I believe it is socially unacceptable now to drink and drive although I do know of one serial offender who has never been stopped. I've even asked him how he'd feel if one of his own kids was mown down by a drunk driver (no response) but it's had no effect on his behaviour.

I tend to agree that the random police checks at this time of year are no longer the good use of their time they once were but it could be argued that if they save one life it's worthwhile - to that person and their family at least. The person whose house gets burgled or whose mother is mugged has a different perspective of course. Trouble is, you can't prove how many lives it saves.

Then again, if soft drinks were more reasonably priced in pubs and clubs (and if they weren't all sickly sweet) it would help.

Drinking & Driving ... - simonsmith473©
Police seemed to be more interested in speeding than more serious crimes. I live in a small village outside woking in surrey, and the only police around stop drivers for speeding. I do think drinking and driving is bad, but there seems to be less police presence around to stop other much more antisocial crime.
Drinking & Driving ... - Dwight Van Driver
Mention is made of Breath Test Road Blocks at Christmas which strictly speaking is not correct but is seized upon to spread the Don't Drink Drive message at a time of year when
there is a distinct possibility this message will be ignored to the detriment of Road Safety.

Plod CANNOT legally carry out random Breath Test stops. Following the Aussie protocol ACPO would like this to be but not yet in force in England.

In his uniform he can only request Breath Test if he has reasonable cause to suspect that:
(1) a person is/has been driving with alcohol in his body.
(2) Is or has been committing a moving traffic offence (No Excise Licence is not one of these)
(3) Driver of vehicle involved in a road accident.
(S6 RTA 1988)

However under S.163 RTA 1988 a person driving a vehicle on a road must stop on being required to do so by a Constable in uniform.

So having made a lawful stop under S163, Plod speaks to driver and smells alcohol can then request under S.6.

But at this time of year in particular there are a lot of 'goodies' which can be acquired by the bad guys who no longer walk the street in striped jerseys carrying bags of swag but take the easy method and carry stolen goods on four wheels, so Plod will be be looking into this aspect as well and not just concentrating on the The Bag. In addition may well have a look at Con and Use and Driving Docs as well.

Hope this goes someway to assure that on these checks he is crime orientated as well.

My day they used to call it the Holly and Poultry checks.

Drinking & Driving ... - mark

My earlier post was made on the basis of my own personal experience last year. The roadblocks have been used in Halton for at least the last three years and the procedures are as follows.

One is driving on a reasonably busy road in or around the town and then you encounter a queue of static traffic. At the head of the queue will be two or three traffic cars and 5/6 officers. Two each side of the road and two hovering. One of the officers is directing cars to halt.

Once stopped if you question why you are stopped the response is "random vehicle check" when this occurred to me I asked if such a check was legal, "we are checking lights and tyres" was the reply. The check consisted of one officer briskly walking round the car whilst his colleague readied a breathalyser. At no point was I asked to switch on lights or indicators (it was 11.15am so they were not on any way).

Following the circuit of the car I was asked to blow into the breathalyser, at this point I asked what their "reasonable cause might be" the response was "do you know the penalty for failing to provide a sample" afetr asking again and also stating I was not refusing merely to trying to understand the situation he replied "I can smell you have been drinking". I had not been and the green light proved this. Totally amazed by what had just happened I drove 50 yards up the road pulled over into a car park and walked back to watch what was happening. At this point there were 7 other vehicles stopped in the queue and the same identical procedure was applied to each irrespective of the type of driver. Some argued and some did not however none were arrested. After some 20 or so cars were stoppped they packed up shop and moved off.

At the time I was furious and was fairly certain such a type of stop and test operation was not legal.

I then continued on my way only to find the roadblock had now moved to the top of town and they were setting up to start again.

I can only conclude the message was we will get you if you do D+D but the figures for prosecutions as a result of their efforts last year were the lowest for some time indicating that not so many D+D anymore and that the message has probably gone as far as it can. The local paper has already announced such checks will operate this year.

as ever

Drinking & Driving ... - HF

Understand what everyone is saying here on this thread, but, as someone else has pointed out somewhere, if these checks save just *one* life then surely they are worth it. If they discourage just *one* drinker not to use his car, and risk killing someone, then surely they are worth it.

I understand fully the frustrations felt by drivers who are stopped for no good reason that they can see - but on the other hand with these checks there is still the chance that these police *could* catch the driver who otherwise might have mown down any one of us, or our loved ones.
Drinking & Driving ... - HF
This is probably a silly question. It was mentioned earlier on here that it may be easier, after say having one can of lager and being asked by police if you have been drinking, to deny it to avoid the inevitable breath-testing. However, if the police smell the alcohol on your breath and decide to do a test anyway, is it illegal to have lied to the police even if the test subsequently proves negative?
Drinking & Driving ... - Dwight Van Driver

Drinking & Driving ... - HF
Thanks DVD
Drinking & Driving ... - Kevin

Giving police the right to 'check' anyone and everyone they wish, on the basis that 'if it saves *one* life'; is the first step on a long slippery slope towards 1984. You have just given away the rights of a particular section of the community (drivers) because they *might* be doing something illegal. Once you've done that, where do we stop ?

Drinking & Driving ... - HF
Giving police the right to 'check' anyone and everyone they wish,
on the basis that 'if it saves *one* life'; is the
first step on a long slippery slope towards 1984. You have
just given away the rights of a particular section of the
community (drivers) because they *might* be doing something illegal. Once you've
done that, where do we stop ?


Point taken, Kevin, but I will have to agree to disagree with you here. To me, this argument is similar to the one we have currenly about ID cards. I see no reason why honest, law-abiding people would refuse to have one of these, if it prevented just one terrorist from committing an atrocity in our country. In the same way, why should decent, law-abiding drivers object to the occasional (and surely in most cases it is *very* occasional) check-up by the police?

IMHO, it isn't leading us to 1984, but towards a system where some, just some, potential offenders might think twice before offending, for the fear that they might get caught/lose their license etc. And to me, if it saves just one life, then it is indeed worth it.
Drinking & Driving ... - Jonathan {p}

The problem with your suggestion is that terrorists and the like don't obey the law. If we all had compulsory id cards, they would find a way of getting round the system (forgeries).

Its the same with gun control. Normal law abiding people don't normally carry guns. The ones that did were mostly responsbile. Now the only people who carry guns are criminals and they don't bother with the law.

If you are still not convinced, have a quick look at the following link.


or more specifically


Why not ask yourself if the liberty of a whole country should be reduced to prevent the actions of a few?

In my opinion stop and search on a wide scale basis is not law enforcement, nor is it detective work, it is however an abuse on the freedom of the citizens who they are there to protect.

Drinking & Driving ... - HF

I really really don't want to get into too much of a debate here.

I understand your points about people fooling the system, whether it be ID cards, guns, or something else.

But as to whether "the liberty of a whole country should be reduced to prevent the actions of a few" - I'm sorry, I do disagree, but as I said I don't want to make this into some sort of ongoing argument.

Personally I would be glad to give up aspects of my personal liberty if it meant that even one person was saved from death or serious injury, from drunk drivers or terrorists or anything else. Maybe ask people who have been victims of such things, and see their reactions (no I haven't been one, I have been lucky so far, but I have had family wiped out by a drunken driver - not close family, but family nonetheless. 2 children aged 6 and 8. It hurts whether they're immediate family or not).

So, I do disagree with your opinion on stop and search - and I know the vast majority of people would probably see it your way rather than mine. To you, it is an abuse of freedom. To me, it is, as I said before, something that sometime might save one life. And to me that makes it worth it.

Drinking & Driving ... - Obsolete
Kevin. The police already have the right to stop, question and search anyone they wish to. (Unless the law has changed in the last few years.) Leif.
Drinking & Driving ... - dave18
Only just started to read, been busy.
I got caught because I hit a kerb
I had had 5 pints, yes five
That put me so far over the limit that a, I was drunk and stupid and thought I could drive (drunk logic being that the thoughts in my head were 'I'll PROVE TO MYSELF I can drive despite the learner status after 6 points) and b, I clipped a chicane, which a resident saw, and I was caught after the car conked out.
Obviously Im very happy that no one was injured and the mags realised it was a stupid one off, so they were lenient.
BUT that put me 3 times over the limit.
One pint of Stella would put many over the limit - think about it.
Its certainly made me think about how easy it is to be over the limit, I mean obviously *I* would have been - but in future I won't have any at all, because the reading at the police station really scared me.
Drinking & Driving ... - Dwight Van Driver
What a pity Dave18.

In Kevin and Johnathans land you would have been Ok.

If you want a stable society then certain personal sacrifices have to be surrendered for the benefit of all. Too many P.C'ers
nowadays that is leading to the decline we are experiencing -- and it won't get any better thanks to them.


Drinking & Driving ... - dave18
I wasn't asking for sympathy at all, hence 'obviously Im very happy that no one was injured and the mags realised it was a stupid one off, so they were lenient.'
I was trying to say, a, stupid one off and I got caught, luckily no-one hurt, and b, its surprising how little will put you over the limit.
Drinking & Driving ... - Jonathan {p}

just to clarify.

I didn't say that he would be ok, or that he should (or should not) have been done. Just that the methods that can be used are not justified. In Dave's case it would not have mattered as he was caught after an incident, not from a roadblock.

To put things into context, my wife is from Yugoslavia, where the poice (and army) could do pretty much what they wanted. Armed roadblocks (and beatings) were the norm, and although crime was comparatively low, the people didn't have all the freedoms that we enjoy.

She thinks the British police are great and they do a good job, but she wouldn't want them to have the same powers they had in Yugoslavia.
Drinking & Driving ... - Dwight Van Driver

Your lucky to have such an intelligent wife. Assure her that the powers of the Yugoslavia Police will not come here for there are people like yourself that will not permit it. Rightly so.

Drinking & Driving ... - Jonathan {p}
Do I detect sarcasm? or is it the sherry?
Drinking & Driving ... - Dwight Van Driver
As if J.

I'm very appreciate of supportive words for Plod. They are to come by these days.


Drinking & Driving ... - Jonathan {p}
Then I should stay off the cooking stuff.
Drinking & Driving ... - Kevin

You didn't see either Jonathan or myself condone drink driving.

You then go on to imply that we are the cause of societies current problems because we have reservations about giving authorities yet more powers to intrude in our lives.

That logic really is frightening !

The worst though was your accusation that I am 'PC'.

As Donkey said to Shrek, "I'm hurt. You cut me real deep!"

Drinking & Driving ... - HF
I really want to respond to this but right now have neither the time nor the energy. Expect this post will come close to most unnecessary/most pointless/whatever else posts come our new year's honours list.
Sorry Mark and HJ for wasting space.
Drinking & Driving ... - Dwight Van Driver
K & J

Did I not read two statements:

Giving police the right to 'check' anyone and everyone they wish, on the basis that 'if it saves *one* life'; is the first step on a long slippery slope towards 1984.

Why not ask yourself if the liberty of a whole country should be reduced to prevent the actions of a few?

......with which I do not entirely agree and I responded with my own thoughts. I apologise for having these.

As HF wisely says the matter should now rest.

(An Irish Pioneer)

Drinking & Driving ... - Dizzy {P}
This discussion is getting a bit out of hand but I would just like to mention a slightly different slant.

I drove 'private hire' cars at the weekends soon after I passed my driving test in 1960. A lot of this involved transporting US servicemen to and from their Suffolk airbases into the local town and I would often be invited in for a drink.

A relative caught on that I was drinking between driving and he challenged me about it. I explained that I made sure I only had a small amount and I was certain that it didn't affect my driving.

His response was that, however small the amount, if an accident happened and alcohol was smelt on my breath this would attract attention and, all things being equal, I would be the prime suspect for having caused the accident.

It's just not worth the risk.
Drinking & Driving ... - Mark (RLBS)
>>This discussion is getting a bit out of hand

I'd agree with that. Each to their own opinions, lets not take anything personally.

On the topic for a moment...

Does anyone have any statistics on this going over a few years ?

How many DD convictions in a period
How many stops in a period
How many drink-involved accidents in a period

And stuff like that.
Drinking & Driving ... - Mark (RLBS)
>>This discussion is getting a bit out of hand

I'd agree with that. Each to their own opinions, lets not take anything personally.

On the topic for a moment...

Does anyone have any statistics on this going over a few years ?

How many DD convictions in a period
How many stops in a period
How many drink-involved accidents in a period

And stuff like that.
Drinking & Driving ... - Roffus
If anyone is still reading this my view is that the law in this area is ridiculous. The stats say that 20% of all road related deaths are drink related. It is blown all out of proportion,people are going to die on the roads, no way of avoiding it. Real crime is soaring in this country as the police take the path of easy arrests. A new cheif if police in my city arrived recentley and re deployed 30,000 officers off road duties and put them back on the beat. About time.... Give drivers a break !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Target real criminals and stop persuecuting normal hardworking people....... This country is a joke...................................

The goverment wil be responsible for more deaths in this country, as opposed to drink drivers, by increasing the retirement age in the UK from 65 to 75. Stats say that if you retire at 60 you can last, on average, at least ten years more, the numbers say that the majority of people who retire at 65 last half as long, i think two years is pretty average after 65. Due to the fact that they cannot afford to pay for peoples pensions they increase the retirement age to take more tax and kill off more people who will not be able to enjoy retirement. I dont see anyone batting an eyelid over this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Drinking & Driving ... - Obsolete
Roffus: The real problem is an aging population whereby the proportion of older people is increasing significantly. In the decades to come fewer working people will be paying the pensions of more old people. Something has to give, and the government's answer to is to increase the retirement age. An alternative is to dramatically increase national insurance contributions. My answer is to save more for my retirement so that I can retire at a decent age and enjoy years of carefree motoring. (Phew. Got in a motoring link. Just.)
Drinking & Driving ... - Dwight Van Driver
Roffus - Do criminals go about soley on foot these days?

Keeping on topic instead of drinking that liquid that inevitably finishes up in the drains and possibly leading to trouble whilst at the wheel with it aboard, put the price you pay into a Pension Fund as wise leif suggests.

Result - everybody happy......

Drinking & Driving ... - Nortones2
"new cheif if police in my city arrived recentley and re deployed 30,000 officers off road duties" Must be a big city, as there are about 125,000 police officers in the whole UK.
Drinking & Driving ... - neil
Of whom, about 6,600 are 'roads policing' - and who also do core police work, just in better vehicles...
Drinking & Driving ... - Nortones2
neil: paranoia rules in some quarters. Ruffus, not you! Just to clarify.
Drinking & Driving ... - wibbler
My dad got a caught last year, and is soon to be tested so that he can have his licence back. But no-one can tell him what the limits are for this test (ie what readings his tests have to result in, in order for him to pass). He is particularly worried about the liver test. Of course he has been drinking since he was banned - he goes to the pub, to parties, has drinks with the wife - but not to excess. He doesn't know at what point he should stop/cut down on drinking in order to pass...
Can anyone help?
Drinking & Driving ... - Halmer
I stopped drinking and driving when I got fed up of spilling it on my trousers.
Drinking & Driving ... - Dwight Van Driver
There is no condition imposed by DVLA on the state of sobriety of the recepient on the return of a Driving Licence following suspension as the result of Drink Drive conviction.

If you are asking how he can drive legally within the limits after drinking impossible to say due to a variety of factors which effect people differently.

The best and only safe course to take is If you drink don't drive OR alternatively if you drive - don't drink.

Drinking & Driving ... - bugged {P}
There is a guy in my dept at work who had the most horrific accident as a result of drink driving, he had rather too much to drink at lunch time and then came into work, drove around on a forklift truck all day with 8ft forks on and then drove home
after work at about 11pm, He crashed his car and ended up in hospital, the scar from major surgery across the top of his head is enough of a reminder everyday that I certainly wouldnt drive after one drink let alone any more.

It still sickens me to think he could have had the accident while at work on the forklift, they are serious bits of kit and I for one wouldnt like to have been skewered like a kebab because of his foolishness.

In my opinion drink driving is a selfish thing to do, no i do not agree with all this stopping and breathalising for no reason but like others have said if it stops just one person from being killed it must be worth it, I would never have a drink and drive home and never have done since i started driving, I can enjoy myself without feeling the need to get drunk.

Drinking & Driving ... - hootie
I just posted an account on the wrong thread sorry - drink driving limits? should probably have gone here
Drinking & Driving ... - THe Growler
>>>>He is particularly worried about the liver test.

I take it you mean the Bilirubin reading et al. Some years ago I had to put an employee into rehab -- he was on 1 to 1 1/2 bottles of spirits a day. He emerged after a month off the sauce and I had him tested to check the result. His liver was within normal limits for the purpose of returning to work.

I'd suggest your Dad goes on the wagon for a while then has his doctor run the liver test as a check before committing to the pass or fail scenario.
Drinking & Driving ... - Dad
I just need to know how long I have to stay on the wagon before my liver clears...........

I have heard one month?

Value my car