US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - motorprop

To make my point succinctly , I need to attach a photo. Have e mailed the ' webmaster@honestjohn.co.uk ' about 2 weeks ago to ask how to go about this, but no reply

If somebody can explain how to post a photo , I can ask my question...

thanks

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - BorisTheSpider

Sorry about the delay, upload the photo to a site like http://photobucket.com/, then paste the link generated into a thread.

Boris

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - motorprop

s1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee426/motorprop/

well, have gone to this site and managed to post these 2 photos

The issue is, have owned this 1986 Ford F250 truck with a 6.9 diesel V8 since 1993. I now use it on average twice a month to move items for private use . My mileage on it is below 1000 per year. Have found out that as of next Jan, it will incur a £100 daily charge just to move due to new LEZ ( London Emissions Zone ) legislation. I have secure off road covered parking for it in North London . It is taxed / MOT / Insured and due to the low miles, it's carbon footprint is minuscule .

To pay this charge every time is uneconomic, so these are my options , unless members have better ideas ;

1) Flog it - but am trying to avoid. Just spent £2500 sorting out bodywork so it looks awesome . It is LHD so should sell to somebody in Europe

2) Fit a DPF to make it compliant, but have been quoted £4000 . Plus they choke the motor

3) change the engine / trannie to that from a modern motor - again major cost and that will make it ' modified ' for insurance

4) Claim I'm a ' traveller ' , as ' showground ' vehicles are exempt. I kid you not

5) Avoid trunk routes from next year, as enforcement is by camera and they are only sited on trunk routes. Possible . Or use a continental number plate....

6) Ship it to the Libyan rebels as it will take a machine gun on the bed, easily

Anybody got useful advice ? I have owned this for many years and it's harming no-one...

Boo Hoo to Boris . I cycle 50 miles a week and have solar panels / rainwater recycling in my house. This law is an ass...

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - Ethan Edwards

If you need to move it through the LEZ then put it on a low loader trailer towed by an electric Smart car. How green is that running another vehicle just to comply with legal idiocy.

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - unthrottled

Thy're brutal regs to be applying retrospectively. I was going to suggest that you look at the 7.3 powerjoke (which was the direct replacement for the 6.9) in the hope that engine mounts, bellhousing etc would match up easily. But to be compliant it would need to be a very recent one (just before the 7.3 was replaced by the 6.0). Unfortunately, the later 7.3s bear no resemblence to the 6.9 so the swap would be uneconomic.

Boris hasn't proved to be a barrel of laughs, has he?

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - jamie745

Any "environmental" policy is short sighted and poorly constructed, and considering Johnson loves cars to the extent he reviewed them for papers and magazines and used the congestion charge as part of his attacks on Livingstone, you would think he'd be making an effort to prove he's different. But as with all towns and cities now they've become convinced cars should be banished and the only possible transport anybody should need is a south african ethically sourced bicycle.

Looks like a Cameron masterminded plan to get the working classes back out of London and get back to the capital cities only inhabitants being posh rich people.

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - PatrickO

Just be thankful you don't run HGV's in to London. The industry (apart from the big boys) is already on it's knees with the price of diesel and come 2012 you either have to stump up £4k for a conversion or buy a newish truck. More price rises for goods on the way within the M25.

My objection is the speed of the incremental emmisions regs. Euro 4 from 2012 then euro 5 from 2014, euro 6 engines are available now but these all cost an arm and a leg above euro 3 and I can't believe euro 6 is that much cleaner than euro 4.

In response to your particular problem, you have pretty much covered all the options, i'd sell it.

Edited by PatrickO on 14/04/2011 at 17:21

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - unthrottled

Euro IV heralded the (effectively mandatory) introduction of particulate filters and they really do make a huge difference to the amount of particulate matter emitted from the exhaust.

The problem is that private motorists have jumped on the diesel bandwgon because of the insane price of fuel. The huge rise in the number of diesel cars has led to a degradation of air quality in big cities and now the authorities are desparately playing catch up with these unfair retrospective emissions laws.

This would have been avoided if petrol and diesel were taxed by mass, not volume and the emissions regulations for passenger car diesels had been harmonised with petrol engines. This would have avoided the sudden lurch to diesel leaving Europe with a glut of petrol and a shortage of diesel. But this is what happens when chaps with arts degrees are given the reins of power regarding matters of science. Bah!

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - motorprop

My thinking was to buy say s 3 litre diesel with auto trannie from a scrapped car , but have been told by several sources that it's too complicated , ECU / wheel sensors . Is it that hard ? my thinking was that a newer 6 cyl 3.0 litre will be so much smaller than a 6.9 V8 , that a swap shouldn't be that hard ? Is there a word for ' reverse shoehorn ' ?

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - unthrottled

my thinking was that a newer 6 cyl 3.0 litre will be so much smaller than a 6.9 V8

I don't think you appreciate how small a naturally aspirated OHV V8 actually is compared to DOHC turbo intercooled V6. A 6.9 V8 sounds gargantuan-but it really isn't.

If you were to put a chevrolet 7.0 litre LS6 next to a BMW 5.0 V10 you'd see what I mean. The 'big' chevy is smaller-and lighter than the 'advanced' BMW lump. Makes way more torque, matches the power AND gets far better fuel economy too...

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - unthrottled

Motoprop

This legislation only affects diesels. Your easiest option is to source one of the gas engines that was offered in the same chassis. Switch that in and you're compliant! No electronics, stock carburettor will do.

That ol' navistar IDI 6.9 wasn't one of the greats anyway!

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - motorprop

Nah.. thought about it , won't be the same mounts , plus the truck weighs 2.7 tons unladen , needs low down torque to shift , it also has 2 diesel tanks , might need to change both ?

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - unthrottled

Ah, the secondary veggie oil tank! Engine swapping will be common place in the US. You could get the mounts cheaply via ebay and ship them over, and you know the engine will fit. It's much easier to swap in an engine that was designed for that truck. I don't see why you can't use the same tanks and fuel lines (assuming the lines flow enough fuel) for the gasser.

It is virtually impossible to economically retrofit an electronic diesel into an old chassis.

The 351 Windsor will make virtually as much low end torque as the 6.9. The gas V8 engines were not high winders, so the rev range is similar. Second hand 351 windsor is cheap (if scarce in the UK), and is a candidate for LPG at a later date.

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - motorprop

If only I could get the 2nd tank to be veg oil... have researched at depth , but according to experts , the standard issue injection pump ( stanadyne ) is unsuitable for a veg oil conv as the increased viscosity tends to snap its main shaft... would love to be told of ways of making it happen as have unlimited used veg oil through business. Free energy , the holy grail.

No, this truck has an ' auxiliary ' 75 litre tank instead of a spare wheel carrier. That was a factory option.

another query : if changing to a 351 Windsor , will the gearbox need to go ? C6 3 speed at mo - in for fault diagnosis, expecting good / bad news tomorrow , but that's nothing to do with silly retro legislation

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - unthrottled

Alas-yes. The C6 fitted on the 6.9 won't bolt up to any of the gas engines 429/460 or the SBF family. Don't ask me why. The torque output of the engines isn't radically different. If you can get an engine/tranny combo, it might be worthwhile. The Dutch are keen on yank tanks-you might be able to source one from over the channel rather than over the pond.

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - motorprop

Good tip on Dutch. Gearbox issue good news - only a vacuum problem

351 Windsor about £2500 - £3000 to buy in from States inc'l VAT and shipping , plus gearbox and labour. Whichever way I'll wriggle , they are scrapping my truck , retro legislation

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - unthrottled

I share your anger. Nevertheless, you've got 8 months. American Ford stuff is scarce (compared to Chevy) in the UK-but something might crop up in Classic American classified. The 351W is a tight squeeze in Cobra kits (which is the main destination for Ford V8s) so you might get lucky. In the meantime, fix the TV cable and burn some oil!!

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - motorprop

infact, could a ' regular ' European petrol engine , say any Merc / BMW 3 litre 6 cyl with gearbox be made to fit , or even a Range Rover 3.9 V8 ? No need to ship an engine from abroad ... and would my diesel 6.9 be floggable to anyone ( outside London .. ) ,

US diesel pick up - Boris wants my truck - unthrottled

With enough effort-yes. Finding space in the engine bay is the least of the problems though. Any euro IV diesel is electronic for a start and will not be a drop in. How would the ECU recognise an immobiliser that doesn't exist? How would an electronically controlled gearbox change speed without a signal from a speed sensor? A modern 5/6 speed tranny will take a lot of transmission tunnel 'massaging' to fit. The 3 speed C6 is quite compact. The existing cross member wouldn't adapt to the new transmission. The driveshaft would have to be cut down, custom engine mounts welded in...

Heck, it would be easier to convert the 6.9 to natural gas than retrofit an electronic diesel!

The market for the 6.9 will be quite small. Someone might pay for it, but the 7.3 turbo is more desirable. Better to sell it with the truck and buy a petrol equivalent. The engine isn't sought after I'm afraid.