Many instructors and driving schools do attempt to give learners at least their first lesson or two in a very quiet area, maybe a residental back street with virtually no traffic but then you get fussy residents going on BBC News complaining that their streets are full of learners, quite why it matters to them i dont know. Ive never been bored enough to sit at the front of my house and count the amount of learners that go by, i have better things to do with my time, yet i couldnt believe a report on BBC's one show of elderly residents of a quiet area constantly complaining that driving instructors take learners around the area. Most instructors are given an ever expanding list of places where they're not allowed to go, because residents do nothing but complain (again, i bet if they took all the L's off the car nobody would bat an eye) so in the end the only place they can take them is busy, built up areas where they get in peoples way. Have we now reached a point as a society where we dont accept that people have to learn and start somewhere?

Bildoman, i understand what you mean about total novices, but it has to be said sometimes perfectly competant learners can be turned into shivvering wrecks by their instructors, before i started lessons i would move my dads cars around the yard etc for cleaning them and stuff and knew all the controls and could do it perfectly fine, but yet when i took a lesson, and got fed 90 minutes of jargon and scaremongering at the side of the road as i was made to read a million books (i accept it wouldve been best to do my theory first, but i didnt know that then), by the time it came to do a few minutes of driving on an almost empty road because i was so overwhelmed by the whole thing i didnt even feel confident that turning the wheel left turns the car left, i needed my instructors input on everything, he beat any ounce of confidence i had out of me and left me basically requiring him to tell me how to do everything, as in my mind i was constantly questioning how to do even simple stuff and would just wait for his instruction. I later discovered purely being a puppet doesnt teach you anything. But the point about novice driver who cannot locate the pedals is the instructors fault. Mine was awful but even he tought me every single control in the car before putting me behind the wheel, thats 101 stuff for instructors, if you feel a learner in front hasnt been told this stuff then blame the instructor, not the driver. But lack of confidence can mean even basic things become difficult as you constantly question your own judgement.

Also the instructors input can make their driving worse, as a learner will naturally slow down or lose concentration when somebody starts speaking to them, completely without realising it. I remember on my third lesson i was driving through a 40mph limit, doing ok for a few minutes, then my instructor began speaking to me and before i knew it i'd slowed down to 28 and was veering across the road. I often find the most impatient or worst drivers for accepting learners are drivers who wouldve taken their test probably in the 70s or 80s, older drivers who have forgotten what its like to learn and in general people who should be old enough to know better. Or as in the case of my parents, people who just "picked it up" and were naturals. I was far from a natural and took me four attempts to pass my test, a test which my parents do accept is a tougher examination than they had to pass.

The fact is there is no substitute for real driving experience, you can learn controls and parking etc in an empty car park all you want, there is no substitute for driving on the road, so you've got throw them out there at some point and im sorry but everybody else out there will just have to put up with it. Maybe because i struggled so much getting my licence i empathise more with struggling learners than people who zipped through it in 5 lessons and passed first time, but there you go.

But what do you guys think about my point that awful drivers with a licence dont seem to get the abuse learners do? Ive seen cars with no L's on it with awful drivers and people dont beep and give the w***er sign at them. Is it an example of people not wanting to bully someone who might get out and give some back, so they'll pick on the learner instead knowing they wont bite back?

Bit of a vicious cycle dont you think? LOL

I just think people have an over inflated view of their own self importance that everybody else on the road is inferior to them. They believe their journey is the most important. When in reality most of them have very insigificant lives and it wouldnt matter if they were 3 minutes late, or if it did then they should take responsability and set off earlier.

Well thats a good point. As you wouldnt see a clueless DIY-er in homebase and somebody shout at them and give them the V sign would you? Most drivers who abuse others are generally awful drivers i find, but all drivers believe its everybody else who is in the wrong.

Im not sure what is meant to constitute a "good" driver. I feel everybody should be of the same level. I think i am now a good driver but i will admit in my first couple of years i struggled with nerves and would maybe avoid driving if possible. But then when i got a job forcing me to do alot of miles i became alot better, maybe sometimes people require that push. But all i really do is follow the rules and do as i was taught to do.

I've just taught my 17 yo son to drive. He had two professional lessons, the rest was with me in a Mk1 Punto. Took 20 weeks. He passed first time with just three minors. I'm quite chuffed!

We started off on Sundays using quieter roads and gradually built up from there. Night driving, fog and heavy rain were all experienced. Unfortunately, he wasn't, at the time, good enough to drive in the snow in December. So until I felt he was ready, we avoided areas where we could get on the nerves of others. Travelling at the speed limit can annoy some, although I can't remember us ever getting abuse although we had someone undertake us using a bus lane. Roundabouts had to be taken with caution as other drivers would occassionally try to use them for overtaking, cutting in too soon. We would comment on these drivers between us - usually calling them a male chicken. I feel as the teacher, I should remain calm and ignore the poor behaviour. If I got worked up, what message does that give out?