Accidents - Collos25

They have just released the auto accident death rates in Germany 3750 died the lowest since records began in 1950 when 7408 died reaching a climax in 1970 when 21332 died, source ADAC.Cars have obviously got safer in that time, there was a slight blip upwards in 1990 when unification came but has declined every year since but its still a lot of sadness to relatives and friends .

Accidents - LucyBC

The BBC occasionally have a little flurry at the UK stats as a "national tragedy" and the police now refer to them as road traffic collisions (on the grounds that it is not an accident in most cases as there is almost always someone at fault).

The fatalities are always life changing. Our call centre is in the Welsh valleys and I often drive back from there using the back way - along the mountain roads. It is mind blowingly spectacular but even in a very good car in daylight and good conditions an experienced driver can sense that a single mistake could be fatal.

The route is marked at several places by roadside tributes to people who have been killed, mostly young and inexperienced drivers with accidents taking place at night - often in bad weather and sometimes with a car full of people, occasionally overloaded.

When I was younger we used to go clubbing in Manchester and come back over the Cat and the Fiddle - a similar sort of route. Motorcyclists love riding the road and endlessly complain about the speed traps and but it is dangerous.

There is an interesting analysis post on the Cat and Fiddle (with biker video) here:

http://road.cc/content/news/19459-cat-fiddle-once-again-tops-list-britains-most-persistently-dangerous-roads-video

Accidents - tdc

Unbelievable AB,those German road death figures for 1970.Wonder where they rated in the population`s COD league that year?

LCB,the "widow-maker" was a great ride,still have to watch out for escaped sheep though and hasn`t it got a blanket 50mph and average speed cameras nowadays?Speedsters have to stop in a lay-by with their calculators! That section of road is a bit IOM TT-esque...where coincidentally a mate hit a sheep at over 120mph.The farmer did start proceedings for financial recompense but withdrew.

Have always been a lousy pillion/passenger,bike or car(spent too many years spiking my own adrenals) and this xmas-day was no exception.From out in the garden could hear the emergency services at 10am heading towards the A16 and did my silly whistle-mimic of the sirens much to the annoyance of my lift for the day.We left at 1pm for the 30 mile trip for lunch and at far too fast a rate for the conditions."I`m only doing forty was her defence" to which I replied "yeah round the bends".Next bend ,big slide,did she slow,not at all.It was obvious that the A16 had not been gritted.Almost immediately we joined a queue at the bottom of an incline and several hundred metres ahead at the top on a bend was the breakdown lorry loading up the remains of a fire-crew modified car.15 mins later two police cars and said lorry headed downhill towards us,my driver having plenty of time to review the carnage.On the move again,stacks of fresh grit&sand spread over wide area just around the bend...bit late for someone!Nice steady drive after that and even slower on the midnight return in minus 7.5C conditions.

Accidents - Trilogy

I drove the Cat and Fiddle in July. It's a beautiful road especially when you take time to stop in a parking place to take in the beautiful views.

Accidents - Ben 10

Lucy,

According to the OED, an accident is" an unpleasant incident that happens unexpectedly". Surely as fitting a description as the term, collision. I still refer to "accidents" as RTAs. The acronym RTC is a recent incarnation. Made up by someone, no doubt, who thought it sounded better and ticked a box in a promotion development folder.;-)

Accidents - LucyBC

Very possibly correct - although there is almost always fault somewhere. Any or all of someone on a phone, driving too close, speeding, changing lanes, drink driving, driving while exhausted, failing to keep proper lookout, passing on the inside except in urban laned traffic - I know that one will be contraversial :-) - and many others which are mostly illegal, deemed dangerous or frowned upon.

The only real non-fault "accidents" I see are where someone dies (or are incapacitated) before the collision takes place when there is no previous medical history to indicate the eventuality.

Or where there is an unforeseen mechanical failure which is not a result of poor maintenance.

In every other case there is probably "fault" but it is difficult for either insurers or the police to apportion it because:

  • things happened so fast
  • there were no independent witnesses
  • people lie to them

I would be interested in seeing stats for accidents/collisions that resulted from non-illegal distraction (save for due care and attention) - such as opening a sandwich, tuning the radio or fiddling with the SatNav - but for obvious reasons we will never get them.

Edited by LucyBC on 02/01/2011 at 14:00

Accidents - John F

the police now refer to them as road traffic collisions (on the grounds that it is not an accident in most cases as there is almost always someone at fault).

Surely it is not the job of the police to prejudicially infer fault by the absurd change from 'accident' to 'collision' ? An unfortunate young woman recently lost control of her car on the A14, flipped over on the verge, and burnt to death. I don't think she 'collided' with anything .

Accidents - Dutchie

These are accidents maybe to do with if a road has to many accidents is bad for statistics and i suppose its easier to blame the drivers than the layout of the road.Some of these country roads the speed limit is 60mph whilst driving at 40mph is problaby safer.Fine for the locals who know the twist and turn in the road but for anybody driving the first time it can be a scary experience being overtaken by some inpatient local driver.

Accidents - tdc

Sounds like we`ll all have to move to Jersey! ;-)

Accidents - tdc

These are accidents maybe to do with if a road has to many accidents is bad for statistics and i suppose its easier to blame the drivers than the layout of the road.Some of these country roads the speed limit is 60mph whilst driving at 40mph is problaby safer.Fine for the locals who know the twist and turn in the road but for anybody driving the first time it can be a scary experience being overtaken by some inpatient local driver.

On a lighter note Dutchie,one of your nationals had a positive outcome from her last accident!

http://road.cc/content/news/28767-top-dutch-paralympic-handcyclist-regains-use-legs-after-being-hit-cycliste cycle site

Nicked this from the cycle site LucyBC used to illustrate The Cat&Fiddle run :)e site

Accidents - LucyBC

Relatives often feel aggrieved by the change but the fact remains that there is usually someone at fault in most accidents unless there is catastrophic mechanical or human failure.

I cannot comment on the particular case to which you refer but the victim is not automatically absolved from fault however we may feel emotionally, just because they did not come out of it.

The question arises as to why they lost control of the car and struck the kerb.

If it was as a result of a catastrophic mechanical failure or a catastrophic human failure or a collision with an animal such as a deer which would not be expected to be there, then it was indeed an accident.

If there was driver error then the unfortunate person died as a result of a collision with the kerb or embankment and the car rolling and catching fire then the police description (as a collision) is legally accurate.

Accidents - motorprop

The sooner vehicles are equipped with recording equipment, the better, not that pricey to build into a new vehicle, camera lenses are £20 ea plus a recording chip ? at least it'll stop people from lying

BTW - where is the Cat n Fiddle route ? This urban Londoner wants to take in scenery..

Accidents - LucyBC

It's the A537 between Buxton and Macclesfield. It's commonly called that because there is a pub of that name at the top.

Motorcyclists often ride it along with Long Hill (A5004) and the Highwayman (B5470) as a triangular circuit.

See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_and_Fiddle_Road

If you want scenery from the area Richard Wheeler's website is probably a good place to start:

www.peak-photos.co.uk/

Accidents - NARU

It's the A537 between Buxton and Macclesfield. It's commonly called that because there is a pub of that name at the top.

Motorcyclists often ride it along with Long Hill (A5004) and the Highwayman (B5470) as a triangular circuit.

Part of the reason its so dangerous is that there are a number of double-apex bends - so you think you've reached the turning point and start to accelerate, just to get caught out.

And ita not just idiots - if you're following IAM/Police training and start to accelerate when you start to see the bend opening you'll get caught out if you don't respect this road.

Accidents - John F

unfortunate person died as a result of a collision with the kerb or embankment and the car rolling and catching fire then the police description (as a collision) is legally accurate.

There's no kerb on the edge of the A14. There's not even a proper hard shoulder! I suspect a wheel ploughed at an angle into the verge causing the car to flip. Only a lawyer could argue successfully that this is a 'collision'!!

I entirely agree about fault - but this is often diverse. An accident/collision I had 30yrs ago illustrates the multifactorial nature of many incidents.

A car drove the wrong way down a sliproad on a foggy Sunday winter evening, causing the car way in front of me to stop on the way up the slip road. Tired after a hard week [long hours], a busy week-end away and approximately an hour after a pint of beer, I managed to avoid the oncoming car as I exited the dual carriageway but was going too fast to avoid driving into the back of the stationary car. Police called, breathalised [nowhere near the mark] and they kindly drove me home!

Obviously I had to admit fault, but a] poor road design contributed to offending car entering wrongly [it got away!] b] the car I hit should not have been stationary. c]alcohol d] fatigue e] climatic conditions f] warm comfortable car[yawn]......all contribute to accidents.

Trying to narrow it all down to human misbehaviour detracts from intelligent analysis of how and why accidents happen and hopefully their prevention.

Accidents - Westpig

Surely it is not the job of the police to prejudicially infer fault by the absurd change from 'accident' to 'collision' ?

I don't think it is absurd.. or the Police being prejudicial. It is their own internal systems that have had the change , in other words their prerogative to change.. and in doing so they've ensured that accidents are looked at with an open mind, rather than a shrug of the shoulders and 'Oh well it was just an accident'.

Most accidents/collisions happen for a reason...a human reason.

If there is any kind of accident investigation and it is found that there was a genuine accident that no one could foresee, then that will come out of the investigation, so what is there to fear?

Accidents - NARU

I still feel very strongly that all drivers should have regular madatory training. If I have to have annual training as an accountant (and my accounting hasn't killed anyone), how much more important is it for regular training for the aspect of my life which is more likely to kill myself or someone else! Doesn't have to be retesting.

Its crazy that we issue a driving licence at 17 and have no further training - ever!

Accidents - Collos25

It amazes me that in Germany where a getting a licence is so expensive and young drivers are monitored with dire consequences if the err from the straight and narrow that they are invovled in so many accidents.

Accidents - galileo

It amazes me that in Germany where a getting a licence is so expensive and young drivers are monitored with dire consequences if the err from the straight and narrow that they are invovled in so many accidents.

Andy, the most frightening driver I rode with was a 22 year old German working over here in the 1960s - he overtook on blind left hand bends (in a left hand drive car) on the narrow road from Woodhead to Glossop and made further hairy overtakes from there to Oulton Park ; on the return journey I rode in the back seat in the hope of better survival chances.

Accidents - Collos25

A old German saying

.A german man when he is a boy his mother makes all the decisions when he is married his wife and when he is at work his boss. The only time he can make a decision for himself is when he drives and he has know idea how to make one.

Accidents - oldroverboy

One of my most frightening experiences was being driven around berlin with a german friend, undertaking certainly was the word to use, But here, enjoy coming back from london to carmarthen A40 to oxford-glos-Ross the heads of the valleys, plenty of driving pleasure at the right time of day without going too fast, plus some nice places to eat, added bonus no bridge toll, cheaper fuel, and I,m sure LucyBC can confirm driving sometimes through the forest of dean when the sheep are grazing at the roadside is interesting too. anf for those who say move to jersey, when i lived there in the mid seventies i lost a few of my biker friends, and had a few (too many) accidents myself, but happy memoriees too.

Accidents - Dutchie
Nice story tdc live is full of surprises I hope she has a full recovery and I don't think she will forget her paralympic friends..
Accidents - Dutchie
I like that Andy I think that accounts for most men no matter where they live the wife wears the trousers.A lot of Dutchem go to the coffee shop for some peace when they retire.:) Proost.