At the exit of my workplace there is an odd roundabout. There is a filter lane to the left to join the main road north bound. The two lanes straight ahead are both marked right turn(2nd roundabout exit) where the rightmost lane of the two filters back within 20 yards of being on the main road going southbound. Most people seem to queue in the right hand lane and a few whizz down the left and go round while gaining looks of disapproval of those sitting in the right hand lane queuing, unless they get held up by a bus in which case they sit there looking smug. Traffic from the left sometimes decides to filter onto the roundabout when a right lane traveller has joined the roundabout and is about to exit where the lanes go back into one. As you can imagine the roundabout can be a little fraught! I don't understand why someone has designed the roundabout with two lanes going straight into a single carriageway when it is a pretty small roundabout so there is no room to filter properly when traffic is heavy and it seems to cause lots of horn beeping.
I used to always choose the left hand lane as I was taking the second exit in effect but with the bulk of users being in the right hand lane should I be a sheep and use that lane instead? The left hand lane is also easier to negotiate as you don't have to bother trying to filter back in but there is the risk from right lane choosers who take exception to you 'queue jumping'. Any opinions on the safest way to negotiate this roundabout?
teabelly
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Any opinions on the safest way to negotiate this roundabout?
Persuade your boss to let you work flexitime. Get in early so you can leave at 3pm and not have to worry about the rush hour traffic.
I have tried to construct a diagram from your description teabelly, but I'm not sure I got it right. I believe the rule is that if you are following the same road off the roundabout as you came in on (which it sounds like you are, approaching on the two lane bit and leaving on the two lane bit) then you use the left lane, even if your exit is physically to the right of straight ahead. And even if your exit is the last one available, in which case you use the right lane only if you are going all the way around and back the way you came.
However, I have always thought that the rules for negotiating roundabouts (as with much of the highway code to be honest) assume 1) everyone else obeys them too and 2) the roundabout is designed with the standard rules in mind.
Your roundabout sounds like it fails on both counts. I would choose whichever lane feels safest, keep you eyes open and don't get caught up in any fighting for position. Easier said than done sometimes.
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"I believe the rule is that if you are following the same road off the roundabout as you came in on then you use the left lane, even if your exit is physically to the right of straight ahead."
The rule is lane 1 for straight on or left of straight on.
EXCEPT:-
1) lane 2 can be used for straight on for dual carriageways OR
2) follow lanes as indicated by road markings.
Whether "everyone else obeys the rules" is their problem.
Question of "roundabout(s) designed with the standard rules in mind" does not arise.
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Sorry, forgot -
Not very clever lane markings by the Local Authority CAN of course arise.
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Trevor,
On straightforward roundabouts it isn't too much of a problem but on complex RBs it often presents a dilemma.
On a 3 lane wide roundabout I use regularly I have to take the last of 5 exits at roughly 270 degrees. The road marking, correctly, indicates that I should enter the RB from the RH lane of 3. Much of the traffic takes the 4th exit which is 3 or 4 car lengths short of the 5th exit.
It is virtually impossible to filter left at the correct point without cutting across the cars who joined the roundabout after me - and are not taking my exit. If you move over too early you have the traffic for the 4th exit cutting across your lane.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
I know a couple of experienced and considerate drivers who enter from the LH lane and drive the 270 degrees around the RB with RH indicator on until just before their exit. Acknowledging it is incorrect they reckon it is safest option.
C
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"enter from the LH lane and drive the 270 degrees around the RB with RH indicator"
Yes, this species (turning right from the left lane, or as they prefer it, "it's safer to stick to the kerb")
are ones you REALLY have to look out for!!
"On a 3 lane wide roundabout I use regularly I have to take the last of 5 exits at roughly 270 degrees. . . Much of the traffic takes the 4th exit which is 3 or 4 car lengths short of the 5th exit.It is virtually impossible to filter left at the correct point without cutting across the cars"
Sorry, I do not understand.
I have been told from a nearby cafe stance, "X is cutting up Y" on several occasions. SO?
Who gives way to whom?
So what others consider as "cutting across the other cars" is EXACTLY what I teach to do.
(keeping a very weather eye out for the boyos descibed in para 1)
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"enter from the LH lane and drive the 270 degrees around the RB with RH indicator"
wouldn't be junction 1 of the M5 would it?
presumably they (the boyos) justify this as treating it not as a roundabout but a series of five closely spaced, but individual junctions?
ie I'm turning right here, and here, and here, and here and (eventually)left here.
must agree with Trevor there are some roundabouts where cutting across is the only option, provided several weather eyes aloft, over the left shoulders firing away on all four, and always having close to hand the bail out option of going round again for another go. Not elegant I know but it keeps the paint intact.
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Thanks for clarifying the rule Trevor.
Not very clever lane markings by the Local Authority CAN of course arise.
That is all I meant by not designing with the standard rules in mind. In heavy traffic (ie when it's most important to be in the correct lane because it's difficult to change) in an unfamiliar area, the clearest road markings in the world can still be no help because you can't see them under the other cars.
Where I learnt to drive in Plymouth, even the right-most of three lanes approaching some of the dual carriageway intersection roundabouts was marked as 'straight on', not 'turn right'. Apparantly too many foreigners were coming off the ferries, seeing arrows pointing right on the road and turning the wrong way onto the roundabout.
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"I believe the rule is that if you are following the same road off the roundabout as you came in on then you use the left lane, even if your exit is physically to the right of straight ahead."
I'm not sure this would apply. The road I am on is directly off the campus road so I am joining a main road that runs perpendicular to the campus exit and roundabout approach road (if that makes any sense!) The left lane is marked all the way round so you can stay within the white lines without having to cross the path of anyone else. The right hand lane just ends with a keep left arrow, then the road narrows into one lane just afterwards.
teabelly
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So have I got this right?
You are approaching a T with a major road where there is a roundabout.
You are driving up the vertical leg of the T
Left hand lane on your road is a filter onto the roundabout
Two lanes go onto the island both marked for right turners only
Traffic queues in the right lane, the other lane is relatively free
If you go straight onto the roundabout in either lane, the island is two lanes actually on it, but narrows rapidly to one lane 20 yds into the second exit.
If this mental picture is correct.
Question is this narrowing genuine or by white paint only.
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The narrowing is real. Once the filter left arrow has been passed it is not physically possible to fit two cars in the lane within a few yards. The opposite carraigeway coming uphill is two lanes, one is the crawler and one the overtaking lane. Both directions of traffic can use the overtaking lane but it has solid white lines where the two lanes from the roundabout merge into one. This also happens on a brow of a hill so it is difficult to see if another car is using the overtaking lane coming uphill to try and gain some extra filtering time/blast past like a complete idiot (which I have seen done).
teabelly
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So in my innocence surely it would seem best to do as you have been doing in taking the line of least resistance ie use LH lane.
Then when you exit the island you will be furthest away from the greatest danger ie opposing traffic.
Lets face it if you follow the sheep and use the RH lane then you are still vulnerable to someone entering the island from the "first exit" or even alongside using the LH lane. In the case of a determined "me first" type you have nowhere to go but into greater danger ie across the double whites or stop to let them go first and risk being rear ended by another RH laner determined to drive up your chuff in an attempt to stop filtering.
Mind you road the road design sounds like a dogs dinner to me. Just wonder at the level of aggro from the sheep that would prompt you to post.
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I've not had much aggro from the sheep yet. Just the odd one that tries to filter back by pushing in front when they are alongside. The occasional person that can't decide whether to stay behind or clog it past me. I tend not to accelerate straight away as doing a constant speed until the road narrows makes it easier for them to judge when to get in front and when to get in behind. Some sit behind, see I'm not flooring it then rush past at the last moment. Perhaps I should be accelerating briskly so that they don't have any choice but to get in behind as I would be leaving a nice gap for them, but that could be taken as being aggressive rather than helpful.I was mainly wondering whether being in the minority is a good or bad thing in this situation.
teabelly
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Although the Highway Code and Roadcraft lay down specific guidelines for negotiating roundabouts, it is often safer to follow 'Local Rules', and do what the majority do. Safe passage is the first consideration, and there is no comfort in being dead (but) right.
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Although the Highway Code and Roadcraft lay down specific guidelines for negotiating roundabouts, it is often safer to follow 'Local Rules', and do what the majority do.
The trouble is that sometimes following the majority means that this gets perpetuated and there is no chance of 'correct' behaviour becoming the norm.
A classic example here is the M60/M67 Denton Interchange. Coming from Stockport direction the roundabout lane markings have changed since the M60 was opened fully, yet most drivers still carry on using the roundabout the way it used to be set up and as a result you have to follow suit or have an accident.
There are 3 lanes approaching the roundabout. One is left only, the other two are marked 'A57' and 'M67'. The exits are A57 Manchester bound, M60 North, A57/M67 (which I'll explain later) and M60 South. The confusion is that the A57/M67 exit is a 3 lane exit which splits not long after the exit itself. The left lane is A57 only, the middle lane is A57 or M67 and the right is M67 only.
What happens when joining the roundabout is that the middle (A57) lane becomes the centre lane and the right lane becomes the inside lane. There are lights on all entrances to the roundabout. As you pass the A57 (from Manchester) entrance, the left lane filters off to the M60 North, the middle lane is shown as filtering over to the left for the A57 and the right lane is shown as filtering over to the middle for the M67. The right lane now becomes M60 South.
This is where the trouble happens. Very few people in the middle lane filter to the left as indicated, so people in the right lane either can't or daren't filter in to the middle lane. The *reason* very few people filter over to the left is that most people take one look at the queues on the slip road and join the (quieter) A57 lane even though they are intending to join the M67. So those of us who use the correct lanes end up having to exit a 3 lane roundabout from the inside lane - certainly not the recommended method!
This sort of thing seems to be common in this area - the Portwood roundabout in Stockport is another one where a lot of drivers use the quietest lane rather than the correct lane and you have to be careful what you are doing on the roundabout to compensate....
How would fault be assigned in an accident in these circumstances? (Not that I'm intending to have one, but I'm amazed there aren't 2 or 3 a day with some of the driving you see!)
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