I have had the first service last week on my 1.2 TSI yeti and they informed me that I need to have a new chain fitted
The sooner the myth regarding the infallibility of timing chains is busted, the better. Modern belts an last 100K miles or so, are cheaper, quieter and don't require lubrication. Better all round.
|
|
I don't think having a chain replaced at a first service blows any myth that belts are better. All it does say is that particular manufacturer makes shoddy cars. Let me guess, its's a VAG vehicle.
I have only ever had cars with chain driven camshafts and done colossal mileages in them far iin excess any belt drive would go without a replacement. Never had a problem, but they were Japanese cars of course.
Honestly guys and gals go buy an Asian car and stop all the hand wringing about reliability. I see posts on here asking if the the new Mii/Up/Citigo engine is any good, or is there a "safe" VAG engine. If you have to ask the question then there is something terribly amiss. Get off the magic roundabout.
Regards.
|
All it does say is that particular manufacturer makes shoddy cars. Let me guess, its's a VAG vehicle.
Honestly guys and gals go buy an Asian car and stop all the hand wringing about reliability.
Get off the magic roundabout.
Please give it a rest, your fanboism is getting tedious.
We've two cars in the household, both have timing chains. One has 70k on the clock (Ford/Mazda 1.8 petrol), the other has 10k on the clock (Hyundai 1.4 petrol). The timing chain on the i30 is noisier than the one of the Ford, despite the 5 years and 60k between them.
|
|
ChannelZ,
Jeez, you bite like a hungry Groper. Thanks for showing us all that raw nerve - I will bear it mind for the future. Oh yes.
Now I have got that out the way.
You have conveniently forgotten the first part of my post which draws attention to a cam chain needing replacment at a first service. Let me spell it out just in case you missed it - that is not a good thing. It is also VAG related (fact) and I am merely making the observation and offering a solution. I also make the observation that there is an incredible amount Euro car faults popping up in this website. It is an issue that should be commented on and actually explored.
If you find it all a bit tedious maybe you should stop reading this website. Other people do have a right of reply.
Regards
|
|
Nothing wrong with disagreement, but please avoid getting personal - or the virtual blue pencil will come out.
Cleme48 - if you see this, can you tell us why your Yeti needed a new chain and whether it was covered by the warranty without quibble?
Edited by Avant on 17/01/2012 at 20:51
|
|
|
You have conveniently forgotten the first part of my post which draws attention to a cam chain needing replacment at a first service. Let me spell it out just in case you missed it - that is not a good thing. It is also VAG related (fact) and I am merely making the observation and offering a solution. I also make the observation that there is an incredible amount Euro car faults popping up in this website. It is an issue that should be commented on and actually explored.
Well, I had the timing chain replaced on a 2004 1.2 Corsa BEFORE the first service. It was already eating it's way through the timing case. Also, how many 2.2 Vectras needed engines due to timing chains failing early? How about the timing chain issues on Honda's 2.2CDTi engine? It's NOT just a VAG issue.
Yes, timing chains have issues, but belts are as bad. Tensioners collapsing at 40k, taking out the belt, waterpumps failing taking out the belt, belts failing due to oil contamination...
Engine choice is either a luck of the draw, or you have to rely on known good engines. I chose my Mondeo, because I knew the engine was a solid old lump that will go on for years. Just a shame the rest of the car isn't up to the job of matching the engine's longevity.
As for the other part of my post, sirionman, I recognise your passive agressive posting style, so I called you on it. I've been on forums and bulletin boards since the days of 1200 baud modems, before the internet was the internet, and I've seen poster like you before, and you're really not fooling me in any way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
The most unreliable car we have owned in recent years was a Toyota Yaris. Our expereince included a new engine at 500 miles, a couple of gearboxes, and too many other bits to mention in 10,000 miles of (mainly) my wife's driving. I guess that makes Toyota a maker of shoddy cars then?
I've had a couple of these 1.2 TSi engines in Golf hire cars recently and I have been really surprised by the smoothness and the power delivery. They've never seemed to have the slightest problem with M-way type cruises. Seems like a good engine and reinforces my belief that LPT petrol engines can be excellent in terms of delivering good power and torque characteristics over a very wide power band.
|
|
Nothing low pressure about that turbo Buster-looks like a lovely little engine!
|
|
i sit corrected, seems to be the full monty.
|
|
|
|
I don't think having a chain replaced at a first service blows any myth that belts are better. All it does say is that particular manufacturer makes shoddy cars. Let me guess, its's a VAG vehicle.
I have only ever had cars with chain driven camshafts and done colossal mileages in them far iin excess any belt drive would go without a replacement. Never had a problem, but they were Japanese cars of course.
Honestly guys and gals go buy an Asian car and stop all the hand wringing about reliability. I see posts on here asking if the the new Mii/Up/Citigo engine is any good, or is there a "safe" VAG engine. If you have to ask the question then there is something terribly amiss. Get off the magic roundabout.
Regards.
VW Golf 1.9 TDi PD130 '52 plate - 187k, fsh and original clutch - reliability no question; but a new belt every 40-50k is a pain. Go to IAM and learn how to drive and your cars will last longer... directed at no-one in particular, just an observation. (",)
|
|
|
|
I have had the first service last week on my 1.2 TSI yeti and they informed me that I need to have a new chain fitted
The sooner the myth regarding the infallibility of timing chains is busted, the better. Modern belts an last 100K miles or so, are cheaper, quieter and don't require lubrication. Better all round.
Oh belt up and stop whining unthrottled!
There is a sort of recall on a limited number of recent 1.2Tsi engines (a few dozen IIRC) that were fitted with incorrect or substandard parts. VAG are changing the timing chain as well as the oil and oil filter, plus the chain tensioner and the lower control housing as a precaution. It should be done FOC when the affected vehicle comes in for a service.
Modern chain designs, in general, last the lifetime of an engine.
Edited by brum on 18/01/2012 at 00:32
|
|
I'm not whining at all. I just don't subscribe to the notion that chains are inherently more reliable than belts. It's not just VAG chains that have suffered failures. People like the idea of a chain because, conceptually, a chain sounds more robust than a rubber belt which people imagine as little more than a piece of glorified knicker elastic. The truth is somewhat different.
Same goes for the 98 RON petrol. People like the idea that by paying a little bit more, they can improve the efficiency of their engine. For most people, most of the time, this is not the case.
|
|
In the modern motor industry, everything comes down to cost. VAG state that there were some sub-standard components in their engines. This is an GERMAN manufacturer from whom we would expect better but they are doing all they can to cut costs, remember recent posts about diesel injectors, brake master cylinders and the other bit that people complain about, the shock absorbers that are now described as service items? You won't see me antwhere near a VAG product. EVER.
And don't forget driving style and engine use will affect both types, chain and belt.
I have seen major damage to both types of engine from incorrect lubrication to plastic pulleys destroying themselves and the engine.
|
|
Until fairly recently I used to think of chains as the types they fitted to old Mini's and Anglia's etc, looked like a bike chain and rattled but were pretty reliable. Belts were quiet and maintenance free but did require replacement which could be expensive (cheaper than letting one break though), VAG ones on recent engines being particularly so (friends experience not mine). Last belt I had replaced was on a very early VW TDi 90, cost about £80 fitted. Having had trouble free non-replacement chains on 5 out of our last 6 cars (BMW, Ford, Kia, Mini, Nissan) and having seen what a modern chain looks like I am pretty much converted to the idea of not having to replace belts.
What OldRoverboy says about incorrect lubrication is very true, having had experience of a main dealer wanting to use cheaper non-specified oil at a recent service how many cars are actually using the correct grade.
|
|
|
|
With a username like "OldRoverboy" you'll be familiar with the ill-effects of aggressive cost cutting. Not just a VAG problem at all.
As a nation we generally get the service we deserve. Car buyers demand cutting edge technology, but are disinclined to pay the requisite price, expecting offers and discounts at every corner. Therein lies the rationale for cost cutting.
VAG behaved badly over the PD injector fiasco, but no more badly than Mazda behaved over their 2.0 litre DPF carbuncle...
|
|
ChannelZ,
cc: moderator
Let's set the record straight - it was you who took a side swipe at me initially. This is a free-form forum and I am allowed to express an opinion within the guidelines and not expect to be scorned or have my opinion triaged.
The thrust of what was "tedious" to you is my observation that there is an "elephant in the room" regarding certain car manufacturers. I would have thought reliability and build quality of cars would be top of the list for a helathy discussion.
If I repeat myself on this topic and it is tedious I can't help that. The topic ("the elephant in the room") is repetitive without any inervention required from me. I am not some self-appointed usurper and I am merely making observations on a real and worthy subject. If people don't want to talk about it that's fine, but if I do that's also fine.
Regards
|
ChannelZ,
cc: moderator
Let's set the record straight - it was you who took a side swipe at me initially. This is a free-form forum and I am allowed to express an opinion within the guidelines and not expect to be scorned or have my opinion triaged.
Grow up and don't take things so personally...give me your address and I'll send you some more cotton wool for future.
|
|
ChannelZ,
cc: Moderator
Considering your self-confessed expertise on the internet (I refer to your curriculum vitae you offered on your outstanding knowledge of all things www - what was the point of that incidentally apart from trying to make the rest of us feel inferior) is telling me to grow up really the best you can do.
For the record I have had my car referred to as a "donkey", "gray", and "porridge like" on this forum but it doesn't bother me and I have never reacted because it is aimed at the car, but it does set the benchmark as to what I can say and expect to be tolerated. However you set yourself up as a self-appointed moderator and in a personal way (calling me tedious) tell me to stop making points about certain makes of cars instead of using fact and counter argument.
I will spell it out . It's a motoring forum ChannelZ , and people have opinions about cars here and it isn't your job to scorn others personally, and it has nothing to do with me needing to grow up. You are missing the point of it all.
If I see fit to offer an opinion on a make of car (not the person as you do) I shall. Use some of that forum experience you claim to have and stop being a forum troll, which you claim to know so much about. Indeed you have become the very thing you hate.
For the future you should practise as you preach and use some of that maturity you claim to have.
Regards.
|
ChannelZ,
For the future you should practise as you preach and use some of that maturity you claim to have.
Regards.
cc: Moderators, Barack Obama, Vladamir Putin, James T. Kirk.
Yet you totally ignore the points I made on-topic, and made a mountain out of the molehill that was the first off-the-cuff remark about your constant unrequired pimping of Asian cars.
You basically posted "VAG are junk, Asian cars are the best thing since sliced bread" and then gurn when I called you on it with my experience.
The OH's 18 month old, sub-10k miles i30 has a noisier timing chain than my old 7 year old, 70k miles Ford. The Ford is more or less silent at idle, the i30 emits a ticking and slight rattle. It has done since purchase, when it had 16 miles on the clock.
I've said my piece, I'm sorry to have offended you, and I'm sorry you're so easily offended.
Z...
|
ChannelZ,
For the future you should practise as you preach and use some of that maturity you claim to have.
Regards.
cc: Moderators, Barack Obama, Vladamir Putin, James T. Kirk.
Yet you totally ignore the points I made on-topic, and made a mountain out of the molehill that was the first off-the-cuff remark about your constant unrequired pimping of Asian cars.
You basically posted "VAG are junk, Asian cars are the best thing since sliced bread" and then gurn when I called you on it with my experience.
The OH's 18 month old, sub-10k miles i30 has a noisier timing chain than my old 7 year old, 70k miles Ford. The Ford is more or less silent at idle, the i30 emits a ticking and slight rattle. It has done since purchase, when it had 16 miles on the clock.
I've said my piece, I'm sorry to have offended you, and I'm sorry you're so easily offended.
Z...
Just posting for a piece of information, as well as to comment on camchain longevity. My Mercedes 230E (W123 series) was still running with a Crewe Engines (non Mercedes) chain when I sold it at 400,000 miles. No noise, very little wear. The original Mercedes chain was so rattly at 120,000 miles, together with a load of other wear items, it was cheaper to get a Crewe Engines recond engine than replace the parts on the original engine.
Having just come back from Russia I notice that the Kia Cee'd and Hyundai i30 are the most popular cars there. With ordinary people that is, not the gangsters. They like big BMWs and Audis. Same as here really. But the i30 appears to be made in Russia - does that apply to the ones we get here? In that case does Asian management mean that wherever the cars are made in the world they still count as Asian? Just curious - when does the country of manufacture mean more than the brand owner's origins? Just thinking of my local 4x4 specialist who despises Jeeps, because they are not really American,they are made in Belgium (so he says). And the most unreliable Audi, the TT, is made in Hungary.
|
|
With a username like "OldRoverboy" you'll be familiar with the ill-effects of aggressive cost cutting. Not just a VAG problem at all.
Yes absolutely correct! I remember well not just rovers, but range rovers and jaguars, the dealership sold all three in geneva. against that people i knew with a subaru dealership had fewer problems then.
But I agree with the comment that people want too much too cheaply, the only thing is that in some european markets people are paying higher prices than us and still getting th problems. Wotk this out if you want.. Rover 45 1.4 special edition £8995 just after sale from BMW, and the 1.4 had few problems, and the 4 i owned consecutivley in the space of 2.5 years were all ok. Kia ceed currently available £9995 and lots more electronics have a good reputation too, so guess which way I'm heading. The mg6 compared to that is far too much of a risk
|
|
|
|
|
People like the idea of a chain because, conceptually, a chain sounds more robust than a rubber belt which people imagine as little more than a piece of glorified knicker elastic
If it helps back up your point unthrottled, i can report that when using a womans knickers as hand restraints they are surprisingly strong.
|
People like the idea of a chain because, conceptually, a chain sounds more robust than a rubber belt which people imagine as little more than a piece of glorified knicker elastic
If it helps back up your point unthrottled, i can report that when using a womans knickers as hand restraints they are surprisingly strong.
Maybe, but my bike chain was better.
|
|
That just takes greasy fun to a whole new level.
|
|
Ye Gods, talk about Mission Creep, this thread takes the biscuit ...
|
|
Blimey - it's been a while!
However back to the original post. The new(er now old) 1.2tsi wasan 8v cam chain however the new new 1.2 tsi fitted to the latest Octavia/Golf is the EA211 16v extended life cam belt engine. It is a totally different engine as compared to the old 1.2tsi.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
