I'm compelled to proffer the cliched 'my car doesn't do this so you must be wrong': 146k 8v GTI and the tappets all behave themselves.
It's taken three 4k oil changes though....
Seriously, don't change the tappets,just the oil, and frequently.
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I agree with Robert, my 185K GTI is tappety for about 1 mile then is quiet, which is fine as the tappets are the originals. Car had 10K oil changes until I got my hands on it and went for 5K changes.
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Very unusual for tappets to last so long. Must have serviced the car well.
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If changing the cambelt it is not a lot more work or money to replace the tappets. What wears the tappets usually is lack of oil changes.
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If the tappets rattle when the engine is warm then they should be replaced. You are correct in saying that rattling tappets when cold is normal for a high mileage engine.
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If the tappets rattle when the engine is warm then they should be replaced.
Er, surely you mean the hydraulic lifters should be replaced?
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My 65k GTI 8v D plate is intermittently noisy (tappety) at start up. There appears to be no common factor about why and when? Any ideas why intermittent? Could it be obstructed oilways for hydraulic lifters? Does oil flushing make any difference?
Since I will do the cambelt over the winter it is an opportunity to explore.
pmh (was peter)
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I'm sure a D Plate GTI has non-hydraulic (adjustable) lifters.
Regards
Andrew
www.hispecgolfs.co.uk
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I'm sure a D Plate GTI has non-hydraulic (adjustable) lifters.
I'm not. A D plate 1800 GL (basically the same motor, minus the injection) definitely has hydraulic tappets. I had one, and changed the tappets at 98K as they rattled badly for about 5 minutes after cold start. IIRC they were introduced in 1985 (C plate).
Richard Hall
bangernomics.tripod.com
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VW introduced Hydraulic tappets in 1986 which replaced manually adjustable rocker fingers.
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Yes using flusher then changing the oil can help.
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Yes Hydraulic tappets , you know what they are don't you?
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Yes Hydraulic tappets , you know what they are don't you?
Cos, please don't patronise me.
Having owned Vauxhalls since 1986, and also having changed a couple of sets, of course I know what they are. I've always known them be refered to as hydraulic lifters though, not hydraulic tappets. Even workshop manuals refer to them as lifters, not tappets.
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I've always known them be referred to as hydraulic lifters though, not hydraulic tappets. Even workshop manuals refer to them as lifters, not tappets.
I am on record somewhere in this forum as saying that, strictly speaking, there are no such things as 'tappets' in an engine. David W very properly corrected me on this as follows:
"To refine this a little further.
"We are all referring to what we know as tappets rather than the accepted broader meaning in mechanical devices.
"A tappet would be regarded as a follower, lever or pawl that rode on or engaged with a cam or toothed wheel...that in turn would convert the rotary motion to an angular, linear or intermittent one.
"The term pre-dates the internal combustion engine and can be found in old engineering books associated with mechanical devices other than cars.
"Strictly speaking, in the modern car engine, a tappet is the part of the valve train that actually follows the camshaft lobes. With overhead valves it will be in the engine block below the pushrod, with an overhead cam the tappet will usually be between the cam lobes and the top of the valve stem."
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I am on record somewhere in this forum as saying that, strictly speaking, there are no such things as 'tappets' in an engine.
Thank you Dizzy.
The "tappets" used to be the things that well, er "tapped" , and you manually adjusted the screw/bolt on the top of the rocker to a specified gap. Nowadays the hydraulic lifter replaces the need to adjust that gap periodically.
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I don't know if it applies to others but the hydraulic followers on my Vauxhall royale (2.8 litre Opel straight-six) were adjustable. My 'tappets' were clattery at 30,000 miles and a mechanic friend told me that the followers run out of travel and need adjusting to bring them back on form.
He was right. The workshop manual explained the adjusting procedure and following this got rid of the clatter. I put another 70,000 miles on the car and didn't get the clatter again so I assume that the wear took place during the initial 'settling in' of the valve gear.
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Dizzy,
Yes some Mercedes engines are like this. Hydraulic tappets but with a somewhat limited take-up range. Above the tappet (we'll call them tappets shall we?) there is also a shim. So in cases of excess mileage/wear, or after a rebuild, they will need checking/shimming first to bring them within range for the hydraulic unit to do its job.
MM
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People,
Firstly my apologies. In removing a scree of trash I know that at least two worthwhile notes got deleted. I apologise to those people affected.
This is not the place for personal insults, picking fights, or bad and/or foul language.
Sometimes people can be irritating, some times without even meaning to be. However, there was very little intentional about this little package of notes, and I certainly don;t understand where the anomosity was coming from.
However, I\'m not having it here. So....
DD - Don\'t rise to the bait. It just isn\'t worth it.
cos - You are the weakest link. Goodbye.
Mark (RLBS)
Moderator at Work
mailto:mark_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
[p.s. (added later): let me be clear, for an argument there would only be an insistence on it stopping; for a single note where you get caught by the swear filter three times and missed twice - you get your registration withdrawn]
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Mark 100% support from me, but I suffered the co-lateral damage. I think my deleted post was something like the following.
Summary
QUEST: Why intermittent (and only occassional) clatter on start up (VW GTI 8v)?
Ans:(From DD) probably only 1 or 2 worn Lifters allowing seepage of oil. Clatter then results if engine stopped in a specific position.
Next QU: Can you detect the wear easily on the Hydraulic lifters?
Anybody got the answer?
pmh (was peter)
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Next QU: Can you detect the wear easily on the Hydraulic lifters? Anybody got the answer? pmh (was peter)
My reply to that one also got blown up by Mark's thermonuclear moderating tool. Replacement hydraulic tappets/lifters cost about £55 for a set of 8 from German & Swedish. I have several times tried to detect a faulty individual tappet (by gap measurement, inspection swapping suspect tappet for a known good one etc) and eventually realised that it is a waste of time just trying to isolate one faulty tappet. By the time you have removed cambelt cover, cambelt, cam cover, carefully removed the cam bearing caps releasing the tension a little at a time to avoid bending the camshaft, etc etc you might as well change all 8 tappets, unless your time is of no value to you or you just enjoy fiddling with things. Same argument applies even more strongly if you are paying a garage to do the work for you.
Richard Hall
bangernomics.tripod.com
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pmh & Richard,
Sorry. Thanks for your patience.
I trust you both recall my explanation of a couple of weeks ago about why I frequently have no other option.
Mark.
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pmh & Richard, and anyone else,
Please also accept my appologies.
I'm still trying to get my head around how I managed to offend "cos" and in which post(s) I was supposed to have been rude to him. It's a shame he has had his account pulled, because he did make some worthwhile contributions. If only he could have managed to curtail his anger and opinions of me a little......... well you know the rest.
Mark, in his usual diplomatic way has managed to calm things down.
Enough said.
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Thanks, MM.
My Royale engine was basically the same as the four-cylinder Carlton 2-litre 'cam-in-head' engine, and that engine also has adjustable lifters/followers/tappets. These are different to Mercedes in that they are adjusted using a spanner, not with shims.
The cam-in-head Opel/Vauxhall engines were superb. They avoided both the lubrication problems of overhead camshafts (as suffered by Ford for example) and the unwanted high inertia of low-camshaft/pushrod systems. And they used proper metal (cast iron) for the cylinder block and head!
Sorry, I still can't get round to calling the things 'tappets', and I never came across the word in Perkins in my 40 years there. However I carried out a quick search when we last discussed this and I have to admit that some technical publications (not Perkins) do use the word -- though I was sometimes left guessing what they were referring to.
The 'T' word seems to be used variously to describe the valve adjusters that used to be seen in side-valve engines, and solid cam followers, and hydraulic lifters ... in fact almost anything that happens to be found between camshaft and valve!
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Tappet - A cylindrical component which transmits motion from the cam to the valve stem, either directly or via a pushrod and rocker arm. Also called a cam follower.
This quote is in practically every new Haynes manual.
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But Haynes are book publishers, not engine designers!
I'm 99% sure that tappets were originally an adjustable device for 'tapping' oil from a supply source into a mechanism to lubricate it, on steam engines, textile looms, etc.
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Yes but each book is based on a full strip down and rebuild, so i expect the chaps should know there stuff (i hope so).
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I was being a bit unfair to Haynes. I still feel that 'tappet' is more a colloquial term than a true internal combustion engine term.
OK, I'll shut up now!
Yours pedantically ...
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This stupid disscussion about tappets/lifters/followers needs to be concluded!
I am a qualified VAG mechanic and all modern Volkswagen's and audi's use Hydraulic 'TAPPETS'
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Oh ok. Looks like we've all been told now.
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>>This stupid disscussion about tappets/lifters/followers needs to be concluded!
I agree. Give it up or take it to Discussion please.
M.
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Well, what a lively - if circular - debate.
If anyone still cares, I've had my Golf serviced now. Cambelt tensioner had seized and the belt was in a very dodgy state.
The cam thingys (I daren't call them by name - which would I use without offending someone) were inspected & seemed OK.
The car's now running quietly & got a years MOT, so I'm happy.
Thanks everyone Mickje
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