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so many things to say, off the top of my head
1 ive seen countless examples of bad driving, swear words, two finger gestures on the road, at and in the prensence of police, and ive never seen public order offences thrown around in that kind of way, going nuclear like that is poor policing
2 the driving of the biker was c*** yes, but he was the soft underbelly of drivers he stopped immediately and gave no hassle, was on legit plates and insured and so on, many bikes doing far worse wouldnt bother to stop and mainly they get away with it despite the TV shows where the odd one gets caught by use of helicoper
3 poor reaction to him asking not to be filmed, and leaving his helment on, to be honest i wouldnt want the hassle of being filmed at the roadside especially on a bad day, its not illegal to refuse to take your helmet off, and shouting at him was completely uncalled for as the bike rider could clearly hear the copper speak in a normal voice
4 cocky loud mouthed cops talking down to a tax paying normally law abiding member of society is not impressive, given the contrast with the lack of bottle from police towards those prepared to fight back such as the traveller sites, and so many more i could mention
5 becomes clear that there is too much discretion in the hands of cops at the roadside, it should have less to do with their perceptions of the driver and more to do with what theyve actuall done, and since i know a whole bunch of people who have done a lot worse than that bike rider and had nothing more than a ticking off it doesnt smack of justice to me
6 cops inventing criminal offences to intimidate is outrageous, the fantasy story about being illegal to overtake on the left is just that fatasy from a cop with red mist
this clip was up there with previous one of dog van chasing a sports car and stopping the traffic car behind him getting past, loosing it on every corner, and even the driver of the traffic car slagging him off on the audio - even that the TV commentary took at 100% pro police line, frankly i would have sacked the driver of the dog van and im surprised at the way stuff like this isnt questioned more
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4 cocky loud mouthed cops talking down to a tax paying normally law abiding member of society is not impressive,
What an impressive police force we have. Loudmouth bully boys who boast on a TV show that they are prosecuting someone, not for what they have done, but because they didn't like their attitude.
To selectively choose whether you enforce the law or not depending on whether you like them is corrupt.
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Calm down dears.
1, Where else in the world do street cops talk to you in circs like this, rather than bundle you into a van, often at gunpoint
2, If someone is compliant and reasonable, then there's half a chance they'll listen to advice or a warning. If not, they'll have to go in the book won't they, otherwise you are not doing the job the public pay you for.
3, Taking control of the situation is a perfectly normal police procedure.
4, Giving someone in some kind of authority a load of attitude has never been a winning formula and never will be.
Edited by Westpig on 06/09/2010 at 21:45
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1, Where else in the world do street cops talk to you in circs like this, rather than bundle you into a van, often at gunpoint
Quite a lot of places actually, this little country is far from the best
2, If someone is compliant and reasonable, then there's half a chance they'll listen to advice or a warning. If not, they'll have to go in the book won't they, otherwise you are not doing the job the public pay you for.
Reasonable is not always the same as compliant, failing to be compliant when done legally should have no bearing on the matter, the guy was resonable once stopped, he may not have been compliant but then he was faced with agressive loud mouths in uniform I wouldnt have been compliant with them either
The PUBLIC ARE PAYING YOU TO BE FAIR, WITHOUT FEAR OR FAVOUR, and since you apply the law disproportionatley to the soft underbelly you are none of these, you are part of the problem
3, Taking control of the situation is a perfectly normal police procedure.
They were not in control, they clearly had red mist
4, Giving someone in some kind of authority a load of attitude has never been a winning formula and never will be.
Is this some kind of defence?
This country is turning into a tin pot dictatorship, the front line cops are out of control as the repeated orders from on high that the public are allowed to take photos in public which are disregarded by the rank and file demonstrate
I'll be sleeping in my car tonight, come and arrest me and toss me around the cells and see how you get on with a bloke your own size
Unbelievable that you cannot even concede a little that they were far from the mid range spectrum of styles of behaviour expected from cops
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Quite a lot of places actually, this little country is far from the best
Do you think a Gendarme would have remained calm and not been robust with matey, even nicked him?..Or any other cop in Europe? I certainly wouldn't be willing to try it and have ridden on a m/c through most of Europe.... (and I have the utmost regard for European cops).
he may not have been compliant but then he was faced with agressive loud mouths in uniform I wouldnt have been compliant with them either
Then I consider i've done you a public service, because you now know it isn't wise to behave like that when stopped by Police, otherwise the initial 'ticking off' might turn out to be a more thorough check...and more thorough checks often turn up other offences, which would be irritating wouldn't it, just for the sake of keeping one's trap shut in the first place.
The PUBLIC ARE PAYING YOU TO BE FAIR, WITHOUT FEAR OR FAVOUR, and since you apply the law disproportionatley to the soft underbelly you are none of these, you are part of the problem
Agree totally with the first bit...unsurprisingly enough do not the second bit ... because most cops think like that as well... and although some people do seem to lead a charmed life and get away with things, it greatly irritates the average cop. There is an enormous amount of police work that goes on behind the scenes, that bland negative comments like that do a great disservice.
They were not in control, they clearly had red mist
Absolute rubbish. Red mist would have been an unnecessary or unlawful arrest or physical manhandling or use of CS spray or other personal protection equipment etc.
This country is turning into a tin pot dictatorship, the front line cops are out of control as the repeated orders from on high that the public are allowed to take photos in public which are disregarded by the rank and file demonstrate
There have been difficulties with that on occasions, due to the Terrorism Act legislation being misunderstood by junior staff. I'd agree it does need dealing with..but..needs to be kept in context. The new Govt has declined to sign the authority for s.44 searches, so there's change afoot anyway.
I'll be sleeping in my car tonight, come and arrest me and toss me around the cells and see how you get on with a bloke your own size
Pretty cheap shot really. No one would disagree the bloke was out of order. However the lady involved was no wholly innocent victim (she was for the assault, but not the arrest) as she was a noticeably unco-operative drink drive suspect who had refused to provide any samples ...not necessarily some 'poor innocent lady who happened to be just sleeping in her car'. That Force dealt with it wholly 'in house' showing the internal procedures work. There always have been and always will be the odd bad apple, unfortunately that's human nature.
Unbelievable that you cannot even concede a little that they were far from the mid range spectrum of styles of behaviour expected from cops
If they were under my command, i'd be irritated if they had backed off from this man. It is a known diversion tactic from crooks. Cause a rumpus, cause a diversion, get the cops flustered..and hide whatever it is you need to hide. A good cop will ignore that and keep going, regardless. He might well have just been an a*** and not a crook (which is how they dealt with him)..in which case he just needed to be dealt with robustly and end up knowing his bluster will not change anything and that when he encounters the Old Bill, they will still do their jobs, not back off.
The problem is, some people don't like being 'told what to do'. It's a necessary down side to living in a decent democracy i.e. the people who live here sometimes feel they can and should act like that.
Personally, when i'm dealing with the check in clerk/ traffic warden/ insurance claim handler, etc....I wind my neck in, it gets me further.
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westpig
im what could accurately be described as a tradditional supporter of the police, i shared a flat with a copper for a good number of years, ive barged in and saved a cop who was being beaten up, whiter than white apart from a few SP30's and one parking ticket in many many years of driving
your whole stance to me sounds like a defence of the position that points get handed out for WHAT YOU PERCIEVE to be a stroppy attitude and not the actual action of the driver on the road, this is surely a poor state of affairs
lots of normal people will adopt a stroppy approach to cops in such a situation
lots of behind the scenes stuff is nonsense, i one large city i know well the cops perfectly well know some grass on which 20 or 30 people sit every day of while about 90% will be carrying knifes, how do i know ? because i know a lot of cops, now those knife carriers are left alone day after day, there are plenty of traveller sites i know where not one vehicle has a valid tax disc as a starter for ten, its absolutely plain as day that UK police only take on soft easy targets and have given up on the real evil members of society as too hard
between you and me we should be able to see some common ground, we are natual allies, the fact that we are so far apart is a very sad reflection on the UK today
personally im used to complaining politely to check in clerks/insurance claim handlers etc when they are making mistakes and this is normal nowadays, we are no longer a society of deferential underlings, indeed this is a good thing, and the police need to adapt to this
many hard working junior coppers around, the priorities and training dished out by their leaders leaves much to be desired
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My only real gripe with the guy being stopped on the bike, and all the similar programmes is over the camera.
The guy stopped asked the camera to be turned off, I though that a fair request. Why should he be expected to provide some cheap tv, whatever he may or may not have done? Leaving the camera on clearly aggrevated the situation but rather than turn it off, or the police ask for it to be turned off, they kept filming deliberately making the situation worse.
The aim of the film crew is, of course, to make things worse because they want a bit of cheap "interesting" tv but it is not the job of a police offer to make some cheap drama for Channel 5.
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- The guy stopped asked the camera to be turned off, I though that a fair request. Why should he be expected to provide some cheap tv, whatever he may or may not have done? Leaving the camera on clearly aggrevated the situation but rather than turn it off, or the police ask for it to be turned off, they kept filming deliberately making the situation worse.
I totally agree with this sentiment. I often watch these shows and as much as it's satisfying to see crim's getting their collars felt, it often seems more than a tad unfair to see people having a camera forced in their faces. This must be pretty intimidating bearing in mind there is at least one member of 'crew' and a huge piece of camera kit, with an enormous floodlight stuck to it. And even in the case of those nabbed for more serious offences, is it really acceptable that people get no choice whatsoever as to whether they are discreetly dealt with, like the vast majority of people, or just happen to be unlucky enough to be broadcasted to the whole nation and beyond? Like many generally decent drivers, I have had minor dealings with traffic cops & was perfectly happy with their very reasonable, even obliging, manner. However if a squadron of eager TV bods had charged out of the police car, I too would have been pretty upset about it. People should have every right to expect that any dealing with the police is between them and yourself, unless you happen to be unavoidably in the public view at the time. Once you've been found guilty through the proper channels then that information becomes public property, but for a camera crew to turn up and feed on the situation before any guilt or wrongdoing is established, is just not acceptable.
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Do you think a Gendarme would have remained calm and not been robust with matey, even nicked him?.
Didn't see the programme but in my experience UK police are certainly no better than gendarmes.
I live in France and find that gendarmes just get on with their job without resort to the condescending sarkiness that seems to be the regulation attitude of their UK counterparts.
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Maybe these television programs don't help, everbody wants to be a movie star.I must admit seeing this copper knocking this woman about when she was arrested shocked me,he over six foot she that small.No offence westpig there is good and bad every where.
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No offence westpig there is good and bad every where.
None taken, you are absolutely right.
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Regarding the taking helmet off thing, after refuelling at a BP station the assistant asked me to remove my helmet pointing to a sign above the counter ordering bikers to remove their helmets. I simply replied when there is a similar sign asking burkas and veils to be lifted I'll happily comply. They even threatened to call the police - I enquired as to what law I was breaking. I said I'd happily leave without paying if that's their wish, they accepted the payment grudgingly.
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I've been tempted to pack a burka under the seat for just such occassions!
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