Speeding (mostly excl cameras) V - Mark (RLBS)
Speeding (mostly excl cameras) V is now closed.

For the continued discussions around the subject of speeding please see Speeding (mostly excl cameras) VI, which can be found here:-

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=10359&...f


Older versions will not be deleted, so there is no need to repost any old stuff.


Mark (RLBS)
Moderator at Work

mailto:mark_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
Speeding (mostly excl cameras) V - slartibartfast
>Re "unlike most people I've never even had a bol****ing for my driving"

>No you are just lucky

>I was stopped once by an unmarked car, on a clear straight empty >dual carriageway, with clear vision miles ahead and to the sides >doing marginally over the 40 limit posted (no reason in my view >it couldnt have been a 70 limit road)


>dont think you would have seen that car

look for the epaulettes...

>was done by a pair of motorcycle cops holding up radar guns
>round a blind bend (they were breaking there own rules as they
>are supposed to have clear sight of you and suspect you of
>speeding before pointing the gun at you)

look at oncoming drivers, they're generally frowning as well as not speeding when they've seen pigs doing that

>i think youd have gonme round that bend at the same speed i did

unlikely, I've slowed down every time for piggies in bushes/behind trees etc

they are sneaky s**s, but not as sneaky in the as in the states where they apparently use radar from aeroplanes, I probably would get collared at some point there, though wasn't in my short visit...
Speeding (mostly excl cameras) V - Peter D
Interesting. I have seen the camera plane guys but not the use of radars. The problem here would be that that the speed of the plane would be many times faster than the car and the plane would have to be able to prove it's speed and track position due to the fact that you have to maintain the geomaetry with respect to the car for the duration of the speed sample. Tell me more about these radar plane speed police. Rgards Peter
Speeding (mostly excl cameras) V - Dwight Van Driver
Do not The Highway Patrol sky Plods use the very advanced technology of having marked lines at a set distance on the road.
Using the state of the art chronometer they observe and time the distance travelled between the two marks. Bingo speed equation.

Now just how they land on your roof and give your the ticket I have no experience of.......

Toad is our intrepid aviator - advise please.

DVD
Speeding (mostly excl cameras) V - TrevorP
They have a MUCH simpler system on some French Motorways -

Some Toll booths automatically check your start versus finish times.
If "red light flashes", they wave over le flic, who will reluctantly put down his baguette, saunter over (slowly, of course), smile and say something to effect of "Monsieur does OF COURSE have a large amount of cash, to pay this on-the-spot fine?"

Very French.

Speeding (mostly excl cameras) V - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Toad is our intrepid aviator - advise please.


;-)

My knowlege of aviation is *very* specific to one component, of one engine!!!


--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Speeding (mostly excl cameras) V - Paul Mykatz-Tinks
An apology to Inspector Collis, Thames Valley police. This is the guy who wants cameras disguised and claims there are 3.65 billion offences per year.

In a recent post on the locked thread IV, I criticised Insp Collis for failing to respond to my e-mail, instead giving me a 4 line put-down.

I've just accidentally opened his e-mail again and, by chance, landed in the middle of my original message, which he copied back to me with his 4 liner at the end.

I now find he DID respond, by interspersing notes within the body of my text.

I missed this because he said his response was in red, but the whole lot came back in black text. Still, I missed it, so must apologise here.

Not had time to read his comments yet, but will come back if appropriate.
Speeding (mostly excl cameras) V - BrianW
"I now find he DID respond, by interspersing notes within the body of my text. "

Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhh ...........

Now we know who Bogbrush really was !
Speeding (mostly excl cameras) V - Dwight Van Driver
.....and PMT is his Cato.

Mon Dieu.

DVD
Speeding (mostly excl cameras) V - crazed
funniest thing ive seen on the roads for ages

M4 westbound

last friday afternoon

big speed signs lit up showing maximum speed of......

80 mph

somebody has a sense of humour

anybody getting done that needs a witness let me know, would make an interesting court case

Speeding (mostly excl cameras) V - Paul Mykatz-Tinks

Hmmm....8's above 5 on the keypad. Sounds like the operator sneezed..........

driver training - crazed
according to the chief constable of thames valley anyone caught doing between 31 and 40 mph in a 30 limit is to be offered an opportunity to undertake £200 of "Driver training" (sounds like a chance to listen to speed kills, anti car, unscientific nonsense to me) or be prosecuted

anyone above that gets a NIP as normal

so at 31 mph you will have to contribute to the local anti-car training brigade coffers

boy they really know how to motivate the drivers to drive safely (not)

driver training - crazed
isnt this extortion ?

pug feel free to comment ?
driver training - Tom Shaw
If I got done for 31mph I'd elect for court. They would be unlikely to convict, especially if you made sure the media were well represented at the case.
driver training - googolplex
has anyone out there ever been "done" for doing speed limit + 1 mph?

Splodgeface
driver training - SteveH42
has anyone out there ever been "done" for doing speed limit
+ 1 mph?


I was wondering something similar. I was always under the impression that you got 10% 'leeway' to allow for equipment inaccuracies, etc, etc. However, a colleague at work got done for doing 32 in a 30 recently so I assume this has been tightened up? I'd love to know how they can guarantee that even fixed cameras are this accurate unless serviced on a regular basis. It's not that I'm condoning speeding or anything, but it's easy enough to let your speed rise by 1 or 2 mph without noticing, and anyway, if (like me) you try and keep to the 30 limit you end up with a stream of irate traffic behind you looking for any opportunity to get by. To be sure of being under 30 you'd have to aim to be driving at about 28 which would annoy people even more. In areas where there are lots of people about and on residential streets I can see the point of enforcing it strictly. However, most of the cameras around here are positioned in places where the road is suitable for a higher speed and there is far less danger than in many, many other locations nearby.
driver training - Mark (RLBS)
Tom,

And I doubt they would even think of doing it.

However, in making their statement, if they had said \"everyone doing between 35 & 40 in a 30 limit\" then crazed would have been in here using this as an example as to how the ordinary driver doing 1 or 2 mph above the limit was being victimised etc. etc.

It sounds reasonable to me.

Surely the argument that many people have against speed limit enforcement, aside from their own brilliance and judgement of course, is that they are being criminalised, that it is a waste of the countries money, that its not really a crime anyway, its all part of anti-car hatred, and other conspiracy or anti-nnn theories.

The police seem to have said that they consider it to be dangerous, and therefore you can attend a course and have it explained why. Presumably in the hope that reoffending will drop.

Only crazed and his ilk could possibly turn that into another get-your-money conspiracy.

What\'s the alternative ? Ignore the speed limits, if they do that then so will all the drivers.
driver training - crazed
actually mark since youre interested i can tell you whats at the core of my gut reaction to this announcement, you dont have to try and mind read (you dont appear that hot at that)

i actually find it very offensive that seriously dangerous activities such as driving one inch from the car in front are almost never policed or prosecuted, and this kind of behaviour is what really kills people

while at the same time so many resources go into policing an offence that often isnt even unsafe

this is more than anything else a scandelous waste of life, for want of some simple realignment of priorities

cheers etc

driver training - Mark (RLBS)
>>actually mark since youre interested

I'm not.

You and your police-hating stuff has gone beyond offensive to boring.

I read it because I have to.

>>you dont have to try and mind read (you dont appear that hot at that)

Strange. Given the type of books I read to my 10month old, I would have thought I'd be ideal.
driver training - crazed
please just barr my account

the standard of his forum has gone through the floor

you are as ever full of it
driver training - Mark (RLBS)
>>please just barr my account

done.
driver training - Flat in Fifth
i actually find it very offensive that seriously dangerous
activities such as driving one inch from the car in front are almost never policed or prosecuted, and this kind of behaviour is what really kills people



Not that crazed will actually read this but to set the record straight:

TRL 474 "Police fatal road accidents report phase II"

covers 4713 fatal accidents between 1985-1997, involving 5175 fatalities, 1887 serious injuries, 2291 slight injuries, and 3648 uninjured persons.

The % of serious accidents with primary cause "following too close" is..................0.3%

So I would argue that tailgating doesn't actually kill or seriously injure all that many people. Nevertheless I would say most road users, including myself, do find it unacceptable behaviour.

Sorry crazed, wrong again!

driver training - Dwight Van Driver
FiF

Maths was not my forte when I was at skool but:

You say 4713 fatals in 12 years (85 - 97) equals 392.75
fatals per year. (nearly the number I used to deal with in my County a year.)

National average I always understood to run about 3,500 - 5,000
a year.

Maybe the compiler of the Police report was as bad at Maths as I was? Or should I read of that number of accidents examined came the too close conclusion?

DVD
driver training - Flat in Fifth
DVD,

As per usual you are quite correct, this report was not on all fatal and serious crashes.

I cannot remember now the selection criteria, probably based on a limited area. If I remember when I get home I'll take a look to see if I can spot the detail. (mind you I'll be more concerned about mince pies and sherry by then ;-)

You know. lies, damned lies and statistics.

Ho hum,

FiF

driver training - Flat in Fifth
DVD et al,

In trying to find this online (no luck so far) I came across some interesting stuff in the Dept For Transport website.

www.roads.dft.gov.uk/roadsafety/index.htm

These might have been discussed before and if so sorry all.

Report on the review of the Traffic Penalty consultation.

It appears that the DfT is measuring level of support by the proportion of letters for and against the proposals on a % basis.
hmmmm

The proposal for permanent forfeiture of vehicles is stated as having very low support (78%) due to various reasons such as impact on other family members.

Yet the comments of speeding penalties received only 72% support and is regarded in a totally different light.

Also noted that Section 172 offences will now receive £1000 fine and six points. NB 12 point limit to remain, proposed 20 point scheme abandoned.

After all this:-

Then look at the rural road hierarchy for speed management which as a link from the same page as above.

esp
section 6 proposed template
section 7 esp table 2
and finally
section 9 legal implications.
9.6 "We therefore need to explore options that remove the requirement for use of repeater signs"

It then goes onto about 10 paragraphs why this will be a pain in the ass to govt and drivers.

Such comments come out in print like "reliance on road markings or their absence to convey and define" (snip)"clearly there are parctical problems" (snip) " visibility of such markings in the dark or wet" (snip)" add to the current confusion"

or their alternative option "remove the repeater signs and use the speed order making process to implement" and they admit that this would give even greater inconsistency between England Scotland and Wales.



driver training - Dwight Van Driver
Wow, FiF, thats a hell of a lot of reading. My day only has 24 hours so you must teach me yours. Nevertheless, link duly noted
in my work book for future reference. Thanks.

DVD
driver training - Flat in Fifth
DVD, found that TRL report, if you want the .pdf file drop me an email and I'll send it off. That is if you really like reading about computer databases. :-( Quiet day today as you can see.

The detailed answer about the discrepancy on the numbers of fatals is that, although it covers 12 years, not all files have been sent through from the relevant forces. Plus they have only processed some of the records so far.

1) Early years many files had already been destroyed.
2) Later years not many files sent perhaps due to prosecution records pending or being kept locally for a time.

I think in the best year they have only had 70% of files anyway.

Best forces for sending records in are Cleveland and Gwent each with 100% record closely followed by S Yorks @ 96%.
(memo to self: give No 1 Bruv a bell to pull his leg that his old force is firmly in the relegation zone)

No doubt the conversation will start " well in my day......."

Cheers
Harriet Harman - Humpy
Seems the Solicitor General has been stopped for speeding. She is very sorry and will plead guilty at the first opportunity. I bet she will, she was 'busted' at 99mph so it's said, but I wonder what speed she was really doing. 99mph is what Plod settles for if they realise who you are and don't want to ban you.
Harriet Harman - Ian (Cape Town)
Sounds familiar.
as our road death toll since december 1 hits over 1300, and a train crash kills 10 just outside Cape Town, there are calls for our minister of transport to resign...
But in the same week, the minister of finace gets nicked at 50 km/h over the limit, and a regional minister for transport gets done at 40km/h over the limit ...
"Do as we say, not as we do."
Harriet Harman - Humpy
Follow this link:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2640679.stm
Harriet Harman - volvoman
Beat me to it Humpy !!

Anyway the British legal system will now prove beyond any doubt that it is the fair, equitable and unbiased system we all know it is and HH will have the book thrown at her.

Or perhaps not....
Harriet Harman - MokkaMan
This could be a new contest for Top Gear. Instead of the Fastest Religion they could have the Fastest Profession
Harriet Harman - volvoman
Cabinet Ministers ??
Harriet Harman - Humpy
Thanks Volvoman. The early bird catches the worm. Knew this subject would come up.... Haven't authored a thread for a long time.....
Harriet Harman - Armitage Shanks{P}
She won't be able to claim that she was fleeing papparazi photographers (Famous Footballer) and her chauffeur (she didn't have one) won't be able to claim that he was fleeing a suspicious vehicle that was following them (some then Home Secretary chap)!
Harriet Harman - CM
99mph is what Plod settles for if they realise who
you are and don't want to ban you.



Well we all know that if you go above 100mph you are banned so drive just under it so she might have got away with it. Having said that speedos over read (mine shows about 106 for 99mph) so I suppose that this is not the case
Harriet Harman - volvoman
Now that really is cynical CM. So if you admit to driving at 99mph you don't get banned... No, our glorious leaders wouldn't stoop that low would they ?
Harriet Harman - Humpy
I have a friend who was stopped by Plod and informed that they had followed him at speeds up to 120mph but the officer offered for some reason to do him for 99mph. Can't offer a reason for this spirit of kindness but it's this experience that led me to believe that 99mph wasn't the speed that she got stopped for.

Oh, and, it wasn't me it really was a friend of mine!!
Harriet Harman - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Me too. Every time I've been done my real as opposed to camera plod they've knocked me down a bit.

Bless 'em.
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Harriet Harman - Humpy
The only time I got done by real plod it was two policewomen on an empty M25 at 3am for 116mph. Knock it down a bit?? Add a bit on if they coud have done. Miserable as sin they were. I met 10 other people in court two months later that had all been done by them in the space of an hour. Still 1st offence - only got a 3week ban. Why do I never meet the nice ones??
Harriet Harman - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Why do I never meet the nice ones??



I didn't say they were nice.

1 was radar gunning two miles away from the scene of multiple s*xual assaults on children. He could have moved 2 miles with his radar gun and watched the park where it had been happening. He would have been able to continue to upset the public *AND* still kept an eye on the park. Two birds with one stone. I can only assume that he didn't do this to really rub it in to his victims. i.e. "Not only am I nicking you, 'sir', but I'm letting someone else assault kids, 'sir' ".

Other one was on a motorway. He told me I was driving safely and could come to no harm with a brand new car with ABS dry road infinite visibility and no other traffic about. Then did me. B*stards.


--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Harriet Harman - J Bonington Jagworth
Well, I think they should leave her alone. And then apply the same rule to everyone else (especially me!)
Harriet Harman - volvoman
Fat chance JBJ !
Harriet Harman - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Quite seriously she should resign immediately. Any member of a goverment that breaks a law should resign. The solicitor general has a paticular responsibility.

It's a disgrace.

(and DVD should be appointed Solicitor General.)
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Harriet Harman - volvoman
But Toad, you're forgetting that being a woman she has all sorts of 'balls to juggle' and life's so very difficult when you have to run a home, do a high pressure job and cope with all the perks of being an MP etc. etc. etc.

"Oh. dear, (chin wobbles, eyes suddenly need wiping) it's all so tough at the top and what thanks do we get ?" "Can't even break the law without being criticised." "Resign ? Mo way !!"
Harriet Harman - Toad, of Toad Hall.
But Toad, you're forgetting that being a woman she has all
sorts of 'balls to juggle'


Brilliant satire! Are you Bremner Bird and Fortune in disguise?

Of course she'll get away with it 'cos 99mph on a motorway is such a trivial offence. About time the Govt accepted this and abandoned the stuipid points system.


--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Harriet Harman - HF
Cough cough!!!

We're not all like that, you know ;)
HF
Harriet Harman - SteveH42
Quite seriously she should resign immediately. Any member of
a goverment that breaks a law should resign.


I rather like TP's idea of putting all politicians in jail as soon as they are elected, to save time later on.

Still, at least your idea would create a lot of job vacancies for out of work politicians!
Harriet Harman - BrianW
Watch for a Government announcement that, due to it's excellent safety record, the speed limit on that stretch of road has retrospectively been increased to 100 mph.
Harriet Harman - volvoman
Yeah, but only for the day/time in question and anyone called Solicitor General.

Mind you, if you'd stolen someone's identity it wouldn't matter would it!
Harriet Harman - No Do$h
Yet another example of only being New Labour Wimmin being human and therefore not a "superwoman".

Should have thought of that before travelling faster than a speeding bullet.......

Ooops, politics.....

No Dosh, but then who has?*

(*Gordon Brown)
Harriet Harman - No Do$h
feel free to ignore any random use of the word "being" in my last post.
No Dosh - but then who has?
Harriet Harman - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Yet another example of only being New Labour Wimmin being human
and therefore not a "superwoman".


The logical conclusion of which is that working mothers with hyperactive tear ducts are above the law.

--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Harriet Harman - tone
What i find amusing is she admits to not knowing what speed she was driving at, most cars have some kind of visual indictor on the dashboard which you can check periodically if your unsure of what speed your travelling at.
Harriet Harman - Humpy
We will probably never know the punishment she receives.
Harriet Harman - smokie
I'm not a particular fan of Ms Harman but there is a lot of pre-judging going on here. Apparently she issued the statement becuase she knew that of she didn't it would leak out anyway. She has said she will admit guilt "at the earliest opportunity".

OK she was wrong, but so far there have been no signs of her trying to wriggle out of it.

I don't see that she is expecting any different treatment from any other speedster, and I don't believe she should get different treatment just because of her job or her sex.

We would ALL plead mitigating circumstances wouldn't we? And hope for a lenient magistrate.

I know there will be some who say that 99 mph is outrageous etc, but how many of us HAVEN'T broken the limit or jumped a light somewhere sometime and not been caught? And if you are going to break the speed limit bigtime, the motorway is the best place for it, even if weather conditions weren't ideal.

I have friends caught on motorways where the police have taken a lenient view of their speed for summons purposes.

It's only speeding, for gawd's sake. An article somewhere recently (on here maybe?) said that points on your licence USED to be unusual, but these days most drivers will pick up points during their driving career.

btw www.caughtspeeding.co.uk gives the following verdict:


The Verdict
You were caught driving at 99mph on a motorway. The maximum speed that you can drive your vehicle on this class of road is 70mph. You were doing 29mph over the limit. As a guideline, the penalty for exceeding a speed limit of 70mph by 29mph is a fine of £100 to £400 and an endorsement of 4 or 5 penalty points.

Will I lose my licence?
You have no points on your licence therefore you are not in any danger of disqualification through totting from a single speeding offence. However, in extreme circumstances, drivers may be discretionally disqualified for speeding offences if the court considers the offence serious enough to warrant it.

Can I dispute the evidence of a radar gun?
If you are going to dispute this evidence you should consult a solicitor. Possible questions include how the gun was held, its angles and distances from the vehicle.

Harriet Harman - Toad, of Toad Hall.
I don't see that she is expecting any different treatment from
any other speedster, and I don't believe she should get different
treatment just because of her job


She's solicitor general and part of a goverment that deem speeding *so* abhorant that it must be dealt with by the courts. She must resign.
It's only speeding, for gawd's sake.


That's my 'real world' view. However the goverment take a different view that speeding is *so* serious as to be punishable by the courts. She is part of the goverment. She must resign.

It would be like a policeman speeding and keeping his job.

--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Harriet Harman - volvoman
Totally agree Toad.
Harriet Harman - Toad, of Toad Hall.
We've all got mates with speeding convictions who've never crashed.

Was anyone else as annoyed as me to see this guy who seems to have avoided prosecution all together?

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=97...3

Why is doing something that might potentially cause a crash in unlikly circumstances punish so much harder that physically causing a crash???
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Harriet Harman - Dwight Van Driver
Toad

This 'guy' has the defence of automatism. i.e. a driver who suffers a totally unexpected epileptic fit cannot be convicted of
dangerous or careless driving. His bodily movements are completely beyond his control.

Different of course if this is due to intox(hic)ation, or like diabetic felt a fit coming on, continued driving and did nothing
to stop.

DVD
Harriet Harman - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Toad
This 'guy' has the defence of automatism. i.e. a driver who
suffers a totally unexpected epileptic fit cannot be convicted of
dangerous or careless driving. His bodily movements are completely beyond his
control.


For the whole of the three months leading up to the MOT??? ;-)

Might sneezing be a defence for hitting a high speed?

Still don't like it. I know I enjoy a few digs but this really is shocking.
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Harriet Harman - Dwight Van Driver
Toad

I thought you were concerned about dangerous driving etc.

Quite right it will not apply to documentation offences and alas alack speeding.

Sudden sneeze, swarm of bees, IMMEDIATELY followed by a prang may well give a let out.

DVD
Harriet Harman - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Toad
I thought you were concerned about dangerous driving etc.
Quite right it will not apply to documentation offences and alas
alack speeding.


I was DVD! You answered the right question - I just moved the goal posts on you!
Sudden sneeze, swarm of bees, IMMEDIATELY followed by a prang may
well give a let out.


So when the camera flashes does the crown have to prove there was no sneeze and no swarm of bees?
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Speeding penalties - budu
15 months back, I got 3 points on my hitherto clean licence, plus £60 fine, for travelling at 45 in a 30 zone. I was caught by a speed camera. Today, I feel I may have been clocked by a mobile trap at 40 in a 30 zone. If so, what penalty can I expect this time?
Speeding penalties - dom grimes
I think you'll get the same as last time. You should hear within 14 days( it may take a month if it's a company car) and you'll have to identify the driver. if its you it'll probably be a fixed penalty and 3 pts. the points stay on for three years for totting up and four for insurance. I've just got caught near Corby - its an evil spot and worth knowing about. the camera is on the A6003 at the bottom of a very steep hill before Rockingham village. The camera works every time and I watch out for it. what I didn't see was the plain transit van with a camera in the back 150 yards past the fixed camera - done like a kipper at 37mph.

If you've not heard by the end of Feb you've probably got away with it.

dominic
Speeding penalties - Tom Shaw
To clarify that last point if the registered keeper of the vehicle is not issued with a Notice of Intended Prosecution within 14 days you HAVE got away with it.

Over that time the police cannot prosecute.
Speeding penalties - John S
Tom

Strictly, the NIP must be despatched, not received, within 14 days for it to be valid. So, if the Post office loses it, you're still in trouble.

Regards

John S
Speeding penalties - Armitage Shanks{P}
The letter of the law says that a NIP must be sent recorded or regeistered presumably so that the PO can't lose it! If it isn't sent that way there is no proof, ie signature, that you have received it. With the PO admitting publicly to losing 500,000 items of mail a week, recorded or registered must be the only way to guarantee delivery.

"A notice shall be deemed for the purposes of subsection (1)(c) above to have been served on a person if it was sent by registered post or recorded delivery service addressed to him at his last known address, notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for any other reason not received by him."

Speeding penalties - Armitage Shanks{P}
You are right about that Rockingham camera! A road comes North from a roundabout, with the National 60 mph limit in force; you come round a left bend on a 1 in 6 downhill and the fixed camera is about 100 yards inside a 30 limit that starts as you come round the bend. If it was a s************ and not a revenue raiser, the speed limit would start on the level as you leave the roundabout some 400 yards before where the presnt limit starts. Rant Over! By the way this is in Northaptonshire so it is about wha you expect! Bags of cameras and a very poor clear up rate on anti-social behaviour, burglary abd the things that matter!
Speeding penalties - Armitage Shanks{P}
camera for detecting speeding - as the filter has ***ed the words I wrote
Speeding penalties - Trisha TR
It'll cheer the wife up! That Rockingham Rev Collector broke her immaculate license. Departing after her 2nd day in new job (on the Earlstrees) she went to meet a friend in Leic's and got her photo taken. A complete hisser as a)it's devious, and b)it's the A427 that she'd normally be using.

Plenty of other dodgy tricks in Northants... watch for the new 40mph for 4 miles stretches between villages, where previously it was 60!!! No notice other than the big Nat limit signs have been replaced by small 40mph on 4ft poles. W@nkers.
Speeding penalties - Trisha TR
Matt35 - everyone\'s a god but sometimes they fall too; just read the Nephilim and Balaam stories. Ideally no one ever breaks a speed limit but that\'d mean no one does more than 52 cuz no one can pass the lead truck out in middle of Nowhereshire without breaking the limit.

He\'s got done, he aint complaining and only wants to know the likely penalty. \"Ohhhh heavy right foot\" hmmm. The people that should get done are those - okay there\'s two I see everyday: 1 woman in a pink fluffy dice, and a bloke in an illegal \'H reg\' Astra (1 headlamp since October). Both exit & enter a small village near Oundle doing over 45mph in a 30 zone. That\'s bad but what gets me is the first/last building is a primary school that has teachers/parents & kids arriving with the added distraction of builders working on the site. But that\'d mean work.... far easier to stick a camera on a 30mph inner city dual carriageway.
Speeding penalties - matt35 {P}
Trish,
I have read neither of the books you mention, and I am sorry if my comment upset you in some way.
My post to the subject was meant to be consructive - not critical, to a young person done for speeding.
Where do you live - is there a Police Station nearby?
Can you report these pink fluffy dice to the local cops?
My hobby in retirement is being an Observer with the IAM and trying to keep cementarys as empty as possible of young people.
Care to join me?

Regards,

Matt35
Speeding penalties - DavidHM
Pink fluffy dice? Eh?
Speeding penalties - matt35 {P}
DavidHM,
Pink fluffy dice is Mark editing and substituting MY word as opposed to deleting the post - Thanks Mark.
Matt35
Speeding penalties - TrevorP
Even the extreme anarchists who think that it is somehow "clever" to spray paint over cameras on FAST roads
are in favour of cameras in built up areas and at traffic lights.

Speeding in 30 limits (where there are pedestians)
is not only illegal, it is STUPID.

When will people learn?

(Oh yes, I do NOT hang about on open country roads -
in my Audi TT - but in 30 I do 30 - well, OK, 33 tops)
Speeding penalties - Mark (RLBS)
I agree with Trevor - so much for New Year resolutions 8-).

Two speedings in a 30, especially over 40, would tend to indicate that some people are a little slow to learn. Your insurance company isn't going to like it this time, next time they'll get really hot under the collar.

Nonetheless, do make sure that you tell them, the consequencies of not doing so are worse than an increased premium.
Speeding penalties - THe Growler
What is the position with a rental?

I was in UK last May and apparently unbeknown to me I must have triggered a camera somewhere. FIrst I knew was when the rental company stuck an eunexpected charge on my Visa bill. I queried this and after about 2 months Visa came back and said it was a traffic fine. I said I'm not paying it nobody sticks charges om my a/c without I say so, sort it out with the rental co. Appears they did because the charge disappeared off my charge card account.
Speeding penalties - Dwight Van Driver
Very interesting that one Growler.

Since when has a rental Company taken on the mantle of a Mags Clerks office in Fixed penalty fine collection?

It may well have been approached to name the driver and then as a try on to increase its own revenue added the fine on seeing you were a non UK resident. Not entitled to do that for speeding which I understand you were flashed for. Now parking could be entirely different as I understand it.

Wonder if this is a scam you have unearthed?

DVD.
Speeding penalties - Mark (RLBS)
Read the contract. I am sure I read something about passing all penalties to your credit card in the last one I read.
Speeding penalties - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Who gets the points?
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Speeding penalties - Mark (RLBS)
Dunno, I suppose the name on the contract if he has a UK licence.
Speeding penalties - Toad, of Toad Hall.
Dunno, I suppose the name on the contract if he has
a UK licence.


Hmmm. Seems dubious. Surely contact with a defendant must be required.
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Speeding penalties - Mark (RLBS)
Dunno.

It happened to me once, and I never saw any points from it.
Speeding penalties - Toad, of Toad Hall.
It happened to me once, and I never saw any points
from it.


Sure it wasn't parking?

What I don't get is this.

The hire company can't plead guilty on your behalf.

All they can do is either pass on your details or refuse to identify you if they don't have proper records.

So they don't have the option of taking getting away without points.
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Speeding penalties - Mark (RLBS)
Sure it wasn't parking?


No, not sure. But I don't think so. Seemed a sum of money more appropriate to speeding.
The hire company....................


I'm guessing here but........

I imagine that the Rental Company complies with the law in that they supply the name of the driver as required. However, I also imagine that they plead guilty and pay the fine.

They recover the cost of the fine from your credit card and leave it up to the authorities as to whether or not they pursue you to add points to your licence. I suspect that the authorities then consider that they have received the money, there is no outstanding fine or information and decide not to puruse simply to add points as a)uneconomic and b) unlikely to succeed given how many of them will be foreign licences.
Speeding penalties - Toad, of Toad Hall.
I detect the aroma of a rodent.

We need DVD or someone who works for a hire company to sort this out.
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Speeding penalties - Flat in Fifth
TOTH,

Not specific to speeding as points don't apply but this is what one rental company has to say about Ken's congestion penalties.

having initially defined which rental locations this applies to

"As a service, XXXX will automatically purchase the permit for the first calendar day of any rental commencing from these locations within charging hours and this charge will be added to the rental agreement.
The responsibility for purchasing permits for additional rental days will fall on the individual driver who will be liable for any penalties and an admin charge if applicable."


then later on,

"Congestion Charge Penalties

Failure to purchase a permit will result in the customer of a vehicle being issued with a penalty notice to the value of £80, this would be discounted to £40 if paid within 14 days.

If the rental agreement is signed by the customer the customer details will be notified to the charging authority who will seek payment direct.

If the rental agreement is not signed or if the transfer of the liability for this charge is not accepted, XXXX will pay on behalf of the customer and then send an invoice to the customer with the addition of an administration fee."


Might there be some dubious characters hanging around rental sites in order to clone rental cars in the knowledge that the fine will always be paid?


Speeding penalties - No Do$h
Might there be some dubious characters hanging around rental sites in
order to clone rental cars in the knowledge that the fine
will always be paid?


There will be now, what an excellent idea!

Know anyone that hires out Alfas?

No Dosh ** Quick, talk motoring, Mark's coming! **
Speeding penalties - Flat in Fifth
Know anyone that hires out Alfas?


I once had a 156 V6 from Kennings, but you didn't hear that from me ;-)
Speeding penalties - Dwight Van Driver
In relation to Notices fixed to Stationary Vehicles then when the charge is not paid then it is recorded as a fine against the owner of the vehicle. Sect 66, Road Traffic Offences Act 1988 allows the Hiring Company to include in their agreement a Statement of Liability signed by the Hirer in which he acknowledges responsibility, as owner of the vehicle, for all charges made (See FiF's post). Thus the Rental Co do not have to pay anything themselves but act as a recovery Agent.

Speeding caught on camera appears to be a different kettle of fish as the conditional offer if not paid is not recorded automatically against the owner. Presumably because of the question of endorsement of the Licence. This is probably why Growler was able to recover his hard earned Bahts? Further, I suspect he used one of his many non UK Licences to hire.

Like Toad I still smell a rat as I wonder how many other visitors to this wunnerful countree that have been flashed have been similarly charged and just accepted and paid up.

DVD


Speeding penalties - THe Growler
DVD has grasped the point I was trying to make. It has to do with the way this was handled. If the rental co is the keeper or whatever that funny name is you use for whoever owns the thing then they would presumably get the bill for whatever it was I didn't know I did. Speed, run a red? I don't know? Entirely possible I could have careful as I try to be.

Now, they simply applied a charge to my Visa (sorry DVD, it was a Sterling card actually not Pesos). I had long forgotten about the transaction, just a routine couple of days' car rental, no big deal right? and since returned home to my adopted country and the arms of a warm and welcoming Miss Philippines and a few cold tinnies.

Two months or so later I got quite simply a charge I did not recognise under this rental company's name and like anybody would I queried it. Visa did a fair job of chasing (cost me a bit in intl faxes and follow up) and then informed me the rental company (after some 3 months) could not substantiate the charge and they had therefore removed it from my account.

Now then (unless of course the rental company's internal systems are totally chaotic which I do not believe because they are one of the names you first think of, LHR branch too,) surely they would have sent a note to Visa saying well, this guy rented our car, he got a ticket, here's the copy, under the agreement he agrees he's got to pay, go talk to him about your problem.

That did not happen and the Visa letter said simply we have credited your account in the absence of support for this charge from the merchant despite several requests.

Que pasa a qui? De nada? I don't know. Just I have been curious about this, it reappeared twice before Visa killed it.

OK If I was running a company like I used to, you know what, I think I'd have my beanie take a look at our corporate charge card statements when the managers take business trips and which get paid routinely and just match up those car rental charges to trip reports, just as a routine check, you know? Finance dept just give me a feel for what we're spending on car rental with *****, can you?

As the old saying goes just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.


Speeding penalties - smokie
Don't talk to me about credit cards. Hmph!

Lost mine last June, notified the companies the next day and they replaced them with new cards and numbers.

Since Dec small payments made recently on the old cards are cropping up every month.

When I queried why they are transferring the charge to my card, knowing full well that the cards were cancelled 6 months ago, they said that the payments are too small (all BT payphone calls so far) for them to trap. So I asked how long will this go on for? They said possibly for ever.

One more month of it, and I will cancel the cards completely. I get so many offers each week of new cards with better offerings that it's only been laziness that has prevented me doing so anyway.
Speeding penalties - THe Growler
My gripe if it is one is in no way directed at Visa or credit cards generally. Visa was entirely courteous throughout and followed would be their SOP (I used to work for Amex, so I have some feel for that) and they dealt with the matter to my satisfaction. My issue is how those charges got on my account and why they suddenly vanished when challenged. I mean why didn't they just fax me a copy of the ticket? If it was routine traffic offense, well poo-poo occurs and I must pay up. I did the crime I'll do the time. Tell me what I owe.

Can't stick points on a Philippines license anyways (I keep my UK one for special occasions hehe).
Speeding penalties - jeds
If it was a temporary motorway camera there wouldn't have been any points. Just a fine.
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - Rita
I have to complete a Fixed Penalty Notice soonest (like tomorrow).

Am feeling sick to my stomach as have complete phobia about form filling as mentioned elsewhere on this site.

My husband said on receipt of original Form that it wasn't him driving as he was on his sick bed therefore it had to be me. He returned the original form and I have now been sent another for completion.

I accept that it could have been me, arguably it was me but I cannot state with hand on heart that it was, in fact, me. Only the two of us use the car so it has to be one or the other of us.

So, if he says it was me and I say it may not be me (as opposed to saying categorically that it was me) what do I put on the form. Does it subsequently mean that the matter will definitely go to court with all that that implies.

Is there any particular significance in the charge being 'doing 41mph in a 30mph zone"?. I have seen these figures on a number of occassions (sp) on this site.

This is just another rotten stinking d'oh day. Everyone is out to get me even the dreaded cold virus - check, it has already got me, ugh.
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - Tom Shaw
Rita,

This is a case where the truth could work in your favour. If you cannot be certain which of you was driving the car then that is what you should put down, and wait and see what the reply is.

It may be that one of you might have to put your hands up (Toss a coin?), but then again the police might decide not to persue a complicated case.

You could always ask for a copy of the photo and see if the driver is identifiable as male or female.
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - J Bonington Jagworth
We've got a photo after a similar incident, and I'm happy to say that the occupants of the car are almost invisible. There may be circumstances with favourable lighting where more details would be apparent, but a bit of windscreen reflection seems to destroy any possibility of a reliable 'driver recognition' system being introduced. Shame...
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - Alyn Beattie
Rita

Try this website. It will give you all the information you need


www.speed-trap.co.uk

Alyn Beattie

I'm sane, it's the rest of the world that's mad.
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - smokie
Rita

Here's another website which might help:
www.caughtspeeding.co.uk/motoring/speeding/index.h...m

I know how you must feel, but don't forget that there's a lot worse in life than a few points and a minor fine.
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - smokie
I'm not sure whether asking for a copy of the photo means you are declining the fixed penalty, but it would seem reasonable to want to see a copy of the evidence so long as you were still eligible for the fixed penalty.

But I understand that if you contest a ticket and eventually it goes to court and you/other half gets found guilty, you will be looking at MUCH more of a penalty than what you would get with the fixed penalty.

My own advice would be for one of you to take it on the chin. Decide who it will affect less (in insurance/employment etc) and go with it.
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - budu
If you do get done, it will probably be for 3 points and £60. Don't feel too badly about it, I imagine there are very few completely clean licences in the UK.
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - Dwight Van Driver
Rita

If you write back and say it was not you, having been named by hubby who I presume is the Regd Keeper then they may well come back to him to name and shame, an offence in itself.

The Matter will still be perculating and unresolved, hence you will still be worrying.

You have almost made a full admission above that it was you so
admit it (unless you are 100% certain it wasn't you)pay the £60 and collect the three points and have the matter resolved once and for all.

Its not worth the worry is it?

DVD
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - Ian D
Agreed, just pay up and forget it! If it is any help when I renewed my insurance recently I owned up to my similar fine/3 points and my insurance premium went up by 5% (about £30), so not too bad. Some insurers allow one or two fixed penalties before it affects yout premium at all.
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - BrianW
This year you are likely to be in good company:
The Government target is 3 million speeding NIPs.

Brian
Still learning (I hope)
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - Marcus
So they are aiming at a conviction rate of 0.0001% of all offences then!
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - Toad, of Toad Hall.
I accept that it could have been me, arguably it was
me but I cannot state with hand on heart that it
was, in fact, me


You don't have to state this.

It is the registered keepers responsibility to either say 100 per cent who it was or take the penalty for refusing to do so.

This simply isn't your problem.


--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - mostyn
Very good posts so far.What happens in my case though?Our car has both my wife and I named on the V5 as registered keeper.Can we both deny it and "pass the buck" endlessly?
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - Hugo {P}
This reminds me of a story I heard from a friend at work about 3 people who shared a journey.

The owner of the car received a fixed penalty notice. He contacted them and explained that either one of them could have been driving at the time.

He was advised to put this in writing. He did this and never heard about this again.

Suggest you do the same.

H
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - jeds
I know of 2 people who have got away with speeding based on this argument - it is a definite possible. A plod friend (who recently picked up 3 points himself driving back to base after giving evidence at Crown Court) tells me that it is a big hassle when people stick to their guns. If you catch it right the officer will often just not be bothered to pursue it.

A warning though: Both the ones I know of were 3-pointers. 41 in a 30 is in a different category and could attract 6 points in court. I think it would be a lot (and I mean a lot) less likely that plod would let this one go.
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - SteveH42
Only the two of us use the car so it has to be
one or the other of us.


Well, there is also the possibility that it was neither of you and they have got the wrong registration. Unlikely but possible - I believe I've seen a few cases mentioned on here.
Fixed Penalty Form-feeling sick-what to - puntoo
Essex Police now send the picture of you speeding. They (or you) may be able to tell who was driving if the Angle of the Camera is good enough and your husband has a bald head and you a full head of hair ;). Also saw an article about speed cameras now facing you when they take the picture so there is no doubt who was driving.

Otherwise dont fret, be honest and say that you cannot remember who was driving the car and then wait for them to come back with a picture.
Harsh Limits? - Steve S
Someone referred in the Speeding Penalties thread, to getting a NIP for 37 in a 30.

A lad on our fleet was recently done for 36 in a 30 (Derby). Usual scam - road well away from a built up area, but leading to some housing eventually.

I wondered whether any of the backroomers have heard of NIPs being issued for less?
Harsh Limits? - Toad, of Toad Hall.
THere's a lowest speed pulled thread on uk.rec.motorcycles right now.

Lowest was 66 in an NSL 70! (Needless to say he wasn't done...)
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Harsh Limits? - DavidHM
Lowest I heard of was 34 in a 30, about 100 yards from a 50 mph zone, out of town, that used to be NSL.
Harsh Limits? - No Do$h
Dorset Road Safety Partnership (the Private company formed by Dorset Police and local councils to scam the motorist) now set their all but invisible portable cameras (Matt Black, the size of a Portable TV) to 35mph and are working flat-out to issue the tickets.

I asked one of their staff why they were targetting a double width road with £1m+ houses one side and a muddy section of harbour on the other (at night, I may add) to be told that as it is often used by tourists on the way back from the beach they are likely to get a good hit rate from those unfamiliar with the road.

Good to know there is a rationale for their placement....

No Dosh ** Quick, talk motoring, Mark's coming! **
Harsh Limits? - Marcos{P}
One of the blokes who works for me came out of a village that has got a 30 limit and as he came up to the 60 limit sign a policeman poked his head round the sign and got him.

34mph 10 yards before the 60mph limit started.
Harsh Limits? - Jonathan {p}
How on earth did the policeman prove that he hadn't already passed the 60 limit sign?
Harsh Limits? - Alfafan {P}
Because he was behind the sign and presumably the car was approaching him! duh! ;-)
Harsh Limits? - TrevorP
No eympathy from here.

Please explain what is wrong with accelerating firmly AFTER the NSL sign.



Harsh Limits? - Jonathan {p}
Nothing is wrong with that, it is the correct thing to do. But how did the policeman prove he hadn't done exactly that?

Harsh Limits? - Graham
Last summer Police pulled some bikers going over the Menai Bridge. They were told that they were nearly going over the limit!!
Harsh Limits? - Dan J
No eympathy from here.
Please explain what is wrong with accelerating firmly AFTER the NSL
sign.


I see your point completely Trevor and I am not arguing with it. But do you not agree though that it is not a particularly useful place for the Police to be checking speeds? Their time would be better spent somewhere built up or round a school rather than simply where they're more likely to catch people or they can increase their revenues.
 

Value my car