All - Legionaires' disease and windscreen washers

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Tue 15 Jun 2010 12:38
All - Legionaires' disease and windscreen washers - Onetap

Has anyone any thought on this? I've thought this was a source of legionella infections for years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/10293519.stm

Legionella is a killer in 10 or 15% of cases, many infections are undiagnosed and are treated as 'flu. Will anti-bacterial washer fluid or retro-fitted UV disinfection become a legal requirement.?

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Tue 15 Jun 2010 16:00
All - Legionaires' disease and windscreen washers - LucyBC
Prof.Hugh Pennington was on Radio 4 yesterday morning and sense and explained a great deal of hitherto unexplained cases.

Colleagues have dealt with a number of personal injury claims relating to Legionnaires disease, most of which have related to contamination of air conditioning systems. The disease causes a range of wide range of flu-like symptoms including tiredness, muscle aches and fever. In around 15% of cases people die of the infection.

That the Health Protection Agency has published these findings should be of particular interest to fleet managers. The 5-1 greater incidence in higher mileage drivers would suggest this could indeed be a factor and anyone responsible for vehicle maintenance should be ensuring that anti-bacterial screenwash is always used in washer systems as a preventative measure.
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Wed 16 Jun 2010 14:18
All - Legionaires' disease and windscreen washers - Onetap

Good point LucyBC. Managers with responsibility for premises with water supply systems or wet cooling towers can be (and are) prosecuted in the criminal courts if an outbreak is traced to a legionella contamination in a system they should have maintained. Building managers have a legal duty of care to maintain records of the preventative maintenance (bactericide dosing, temperature regimes).

We can probably expect the HSE to start sampling fleet windscreen washer bottles if a driver or a vehicle user suffers an infection. The fleet managers need to stock upon screen wash and maintain records of its use.

However the existing legislation is based on the Health and Safety at Work Acts and so does not apply to domestic systems, although you can get legionella infections from both domestic and commercial water systems. There is no law at present to stop a private car emitting a contaminated aerosol in cities.

Edited by afm on 16/06/2010 at 14:28

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 16:55
All - Legionaires' disease and windscreen washers - oilrag

It seems to me, that sometimes there are plumes of spray coming off other cars screen washers. I`ve started doing the local motorway runs with the air control set to recirculate following this info.

I mean, there must be a fan shaped plume of extended range aerosol coming off some vehicles, at speed, most of it invisible.

I wonder if there are any other less serious bacteria in washer bottles too. Might explain the `long drive` cough I get sometimes - although I`ve always put that down to the `exhaust plume`

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 18:16
Car Aircon risk? - Lee1

Does a car's aircon have a vulnerability to legionaires' too? I've a Nissan right now, it has aircon, I don't know how it works but I assume some sort of refrigerant.

Home and office aircons have a vulnerability AFAIK so why not a car's?

Edited by Lee1 on 20/06/2010 at 18:16

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Mon 21 Jun 2010 12:58
Car Aircon risk? - John F

Does a car's aircon have a vulnerability to legionaires' too?

Home and office aircons have a vulnerability AFAIK so why not a car's?

No, because there is no old stored water. Any condensate is discharged - often producing an alarming puddle under the car!

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Mon 21 Jun 2010 14:13
Car Aircon risk? - Lee1

Thank you, John F, much appreciated,

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Sat 10 Jul 2010 15:34
Car Aircon risk? - Timelord

Gave me a shock the first time, looked like gallons of water under the then-new Golf.

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Tue 22 Jun 2010 19:58
All - Legionaires' disease and windscreen washers - ianhad2

I don't really understand this. The professor says that just adding screen wash to the washer was adequate. Surely everyone add's it as a matter of course. Plane water simply does not work.

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Tue 22 Jun 2010 20:44
All - Legionaires' disease and windscreen washers - piggy
" Surely everyone add's it as a matter of course. Plane water simply does not work."

It ain`t necessarily so. A few years ago a young chap at work asked me why his wiper blades had a life expectancy of about six months.Since he is noted for his meanness I asked him if he had any screenwash in the washer bottle. Turned out he didn`t. So using screenwash not only cleans the screen better but also lubricates the blades. Anyone who does not use screenwash in winter is asking for trouble

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Sat 3 Jul 2010 08:54
All - Legionaires' disease and windscreen washers - Onetap

Screen wash contains an alcohol, partly as an anti-freeze. The alcohol also has bactericidal properties, hence its use in the hand cleaner gels in hospitals.

You can get a lot of bugs growing in tepid, stagnant water, pseudomonas aeruginosa being one of the better known ones, due to it's ability to block water systems with a biofilm slime.

The legionella problem with AC systems was usually found in systems with cooling towers, typically hospitals and hotels. The victims were usually the elderly or infirm, so it caused many casualties in hospitals or amongst the American Legion members (elderly ex-servicemen) after whom it was named. .

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