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UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - oilrag

If you`ve ever looked at a global map in China, the UK is somewhere up near the top left corner - as relevant as the Galapogos islands are to us - and not worth a shrug - just a blank stare when you mention the UK.

That was my impression on meeting business minded relatives on a recent visit.

Perhaps we had it coming, with our old Empire and it`s arrogant feather hatted minions, forcing people in their own country to bow to the `superiority` of an imported genteel England into Shanghai. Or was it demanding black pudding and jellied eals instead of accepting and savoring local cuisine?.

Perhaps while we had Rover we could justifiably snort along the road in a derision of `made in hong-Kong` - that derogatory term of 1950`s childhood symbolizing a pressed `tin` toy car - bought in the market with the expectation of the wheels falling off the next day.

No more.

We are a pea no longer on a drum - but quaking in a corner of the potting shed rotted and waiting to be eaten by a magpie.

Out in the Far East the big drum booms and the world quivers to the industrial hammers that are forging the car industry of this Century.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8644730.stm

Perhaps we should go into rickshaw manufacture and set ourselves up as a theme park?

I`m OK pulling over half a mile - how about you?

Edited by oilrag on 27/04/2010 at 15:15

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - mustangman

I think the writing is defiantly on the wall.

I once knew a fellow engineer, who worked for a motorcycle company at the end of the 50’s. They bought in and examined a Honda, and laughed at it’s pressed frame panels etc. No future there they concluded.

A decade later, their company had disappeared along with several others.

Not so long ago Korean cars were cheap & nasty, but now they produce excellent vehicles, and prices are approaching the mainstream.

The key to vehicle design & development used to be mostly in the west or Japan. As for production, well this can always be moved where wages are low and government incentives are available.

Currently we are becoming aware that China has a large indigenous motor industry, that cannot produce vehicles to the “western standard” They are however a large country producing thousands of engineering graduates every year. How long will it be before their design capability improves and they start to export serious quantities of decent vehicles ?

Not long I think…………..!

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - retgwte

India is a big problem

already producing the diesel engines for Fiat

producing the new Nissan Micra

they have zero employee protection legislation, no health and saftey, no pollution controls, and regularly liberate IP from western countries, we cannot compete with our high cost economy which actually demands decent treatment for the workers, pollution controls, IP protection and so on

we need to radically rethink how we compete in the modern world

we are also incidentally borrowing half a billion quid a year to give to India as "aid", money which doesnt actually help the poor, and bearing in mind India is funding a nuclear weapons programme and space programme I seriously think we should keep that money for our own poor and needy

we need to be a lot sharper

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - diddy1234

The UK won't keep the money

The politicial powers have too much 'compassion' for everyone else (out side of the UK
) and will gladly give money away left right and center just because we feel sorry for everyone elses plight.

The downside to that of course is that one way or another we all get to suffer within the UK.

The government has plenty of money to invest in 'speed spike' cameras but is short of a couple of million homes for the needy.

misplaced loyalties ?

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - ajit

India is a big problem

they have zero employee protection legislation, no health and saftey, no pollution controls, and regularly liberate IP from western countries, we cannot compete with our high cost economy which actually demands decent treatment for the workers, pollution controls, IP protection and so on

we need to radically rethink how we compete in the modern world

we are also incidentally borrowing half a billion quid a year to give to India as "aid", money which doesnt actually help the poor, and bearing in mind India is funding a nuclear weapons programme and space programme I seriously think we should keep that money for our own poor and needy

we need to be a lot sharper

Have you been to India and observed as such

Yes - some basic smaller feudal industries are like that but the bigger companies whether indian or multinational do a lot more than they need in employee protection , pollution control etc

As for IP laws, the only IP violations are from Chinese imports on the grey market. Why else do you find major US companies like GE, Intel setting up design centres here compared to China. IP is protected.

As for Aid - that half billion ain't nothing compared to what gets flushed down the NHS. Oh, and you do know that most of the UK's wealth did come from looting India in the1800 and early 1900's.

India is competing fair and square - no dumping and tariffs. Coming back to cars, europeans have failed to conquer elsewhere beyond the luxury segment. VW is 15 years too late.

Call it a global economic correction! Your govt needs revenue from fines as taxes ain't enough nowadays.

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - retgwte

ive seen indian multinationals up close and personal

never seen such racist evil bullying practises anywhere else in my multi national career

the standards are dire

and the floods of workers here for the indian outsourcers on intra company transfer visas outside gordons famous points system has got to stop, any idiot can bring folk in prepared to work for slave labour rates its not clever

frankly i forsee big problems with an india with a chip on its shoulder as your reply illustrates

brits are far too tolerant

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - ajit

I've seen worse when working for a British company - I'm British by the way. If the Brit encourage this , it would happen. This is nothing compared to what goes on in the UAE though.

I work for a US multinational which finds leveraging Indian talent is going from strength to strngth. If the UK regenerates the knowledge capabilities and relooked at its rules, you would not be so resentful.

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - retgwte

not at all

I've been in the best and worst of British companies, and seen outrageous behaviour in organisations around the world

But far and away the worst racism is from Indian organisations, between the different castes and towards Brits

Far and away the worst bullying and poor practise is in the sweatshops of the Indian multi-nationals

Far and away the worst stealing of IP is by Indian organisations nicking the hard won effort of countries like the UK

US multinational? that wouldnt be a sweatshop like Cognizant by any chance that although having a HQ in the USA is nothing other than an Indian outsourcing slave trader?

truth is there for all to see, India is making itself the enemy

Sad but thats the way it is, it will only take a few more decent folk like me to realise whats going on and radical changes to the way we interact with India will happen quickly

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - Leif

I've seen worse when working for a British company - I'm British by the way. If the Brit encourage this , it would happen. This is nothing compared to what goes on in the UAE though.

I work for a US multinational which finds leveraging Indian talent is going from strength to strngth. If the UK regenerates the knowledge capabilities and relooked at its rules, you would not be so resentful.

The truth is that the British are far too tolerant. When Indians come for interview at UK software companies, they have been coached by the Indian agency which knows the questions they ask. UK staff do not get coaching. Some Indians are interviewed on the phone, and I know people who have interviewed Indians, and heard people in the background coaching the candidate. I have worked alongside Indians, and the worst openly tell me the English are no good. These people are nothing like the marvelous East African Asians that I grew up with. Some are nice, of course. Oh, and raise these issues, and one is labelled a racist. Mmmm.

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - Leif

ive seen indian multinationals up close and personal

never seen such racist evil bullying practises anywhere else in my multi national career

the standards are dire

and the floods of workers here for the indian outsourcers on intra company transfer visas outside gordons famous points system has got to stop, any idiot can bring folk in prepared to work for slave labour rates its not clever

frankly i forsee big problems with an india with a chip on its shoulder as your reply illustrates

brits are far too tolerant

Funny you should say that. A few years back I had an interview with a UK company. The Indian (not British) interviewer said the English are not good enough to be employed. Recently an ex colleague applied for two jobs that matched his experience. He di dnot get an interview. Both jobs were given to Indians who had almost no relevant experience. I worked alongside many Indians. Many are nice. But an awful lot are abusive racists (I was abused) who think India is the best thing since sliced bread, and the Britain are nothing. Unfortunately in many UK software companies most workers are now Indians. Also in banking I hear. So much for anti-racism, equality under the law, and other empty slogans. By the way, I think Anglo Asians are fine. Long may they thrive and contribute to our country.

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - retgwte

yes many indian nationals here on intra company transfer visas outside gordons famous points system or have been here so long they have been given indefinite leave to remain

many are given tax and NI concessions

many bring their family in, get free state education for their kids, and get expensive nhs treatment - all without having paid into the system

its a disgrace

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - Avant

We need to see this global movement as an opportunity rather than a threat - as most Asian countries are, including of course China and India. When you do SWAT analysis for a business, you try to find how the weaknesses can be converted to strengths, threats to opportunities.

We need to work to our strngths and - above all - try to export more. Inevitably this will involve service industries moire than manufactuiring - although competent management by Honda, Nissan etc have shown how manufacturing can work in Britain.

I hope that an incoming government will do all it can to provide incentives for exporters. We are in a similar situation to 1945, when the Attlee government procliamed 'Export or die....' One statistic I can remember is that something like 340,000 Austin A40 Devons were produced, in good old Longbridge, between 1947 and 1952, and 77 % of them were exported.

'Quaking in the potting shed' is no good, as I'm sure Oilrag agrees. We need to pot the plants and then flog them, and by doing so grow the business so that the shed becomes a garden centre.

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - xtrailman

How can we export? The company i worked for (25 years), has now moved to china, machines and all.

Yes we may have ruled 1/3 of the known world, raped and pillage, but the strong have always taken from the weak, this is nature and will never change.

What i can't accept is all the foreign aid we give away, year on year, when we have to drive on roads so poor, so many look like a patch work quilt!

We need to get our priories right.

If we are truly in recession, lets have ZERO aid to other countries.

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - diddy1234

Just face it, the UK is banjaxed.

This country is now paying the price for hundred's of years of 'our rule'.

Were in a position where we cannot compete with the likes of China for production (most countries cannot compete now).

However one area this country is very good at is innovation and speciallised production.

We always have been.

The UK's problem is that we just give technology away (Radar, jet engine etc).

UK pea on China`s drum - Car Manufacture - Leif

How can we export? The company i worked for (25 years), has now moved to china, machines and all.

Yes we may have ruled 1/3 of the known world, raped and pillage, but the strong have always taken from the weak, this is nature and will never change.

What i can't accept is all the foreign aid we give away, year on year, when we have to drive on roads so poor, so many look like a patch work quilt!

We need to get our priories right.

If we are truly in recession, lets have ZERO aid to other countries.

Indeed, we did pillage other countries, and suck them dry for our benefit.

Exports are improving due to a) the devluation of the pound (which would not have happened were we in the Euro) and b) the increase in the standard of living and wages in India and China. Indian engineers in India regularly move on to better paying jobs, and that is to our benefit. We are getting more and more competitive. BUT ... by outsourcing and employing Indian engineers, we lose skills.

Aid to some countries such as India may well be questionable. Maybe redirect that aid to helping truly poor countries, or underpriviledged people in the UK.

 

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