Hi all,
In a bit of a predicament, and would welcome advice.
It would appear that the slightly off set driving position of my Megane (2000 model) is aggravating an old back problem I thought I had long since got over. Specialist suggests changing the car before further damage is caused.
However finances at present are not fantastic, and realistically I am looking at sub £2k territory. The Megane was/is a great find - a reliable Renault with one owner, full service history and virtually unblemished. I paid £1400 for it 9 months ago and suspect I could still get £1k for it. I really don't want to get rid since in every other respect it is perfect for my requirements.
Requirements are: Economy, good boot space, room for family use/holidays etc since my wifes 3dr Rav 4 whilst a great car is woefully inpractical (and no she wont part with it), and reliability. And of course the driving position needs to not require you to twist your lower body to get to the clutch etc!
Any thoughts anyone?
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buy a car without offset wheel & pedals ( a common complaint) make sure cloth seats ( not leather) doesn't support the back so well. Buy an auto, stops you twisting your back everytime you change gear!
I have a crushed vertebre & for me driving a 4x4 auto has made the difference between driving 40 mins max to driving all day!
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make sure cloth seats ( not leather)
I would add to this, don't get velour seats either.
WHAT SPAWN OF SATAN INVENTED VELOUR SEATS! ARGH! (Can't twist my bum round on them -- trousers / jeans stick -- so have to lift myself up on the arm rest and door handle to get in the golf which has them.)
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WHAT SPAWN OF SATAN INVENTED VELOUR SEATS! ARGH! (Can't twist my bum round on them -- trousers / jeans stick -- so have to lift myself up on the arm rest and door handle to get in the golf which has them.)
Perhaps it's the fact that it's a Golf which is the problem, not the fact that it has velour seats. The velour seats in my Focus are superb.
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In my experience something from the VAG group would be suitable. FWIW I have a Skoda Fabia which is very comfortable - for me - but I've also, over 25 years, had a Golf Mk 3 estate, a Mk 2 Golf, a Mk 2 Polo and an Audi A4. All, without exception, had very good driving positions.
It sounds to me as if you want something tall, in which case what about an early Touran - or even an early Sharan or its twins?
I've also had 2 Toyota Yarises - one a Verso. Both were comfortable too - for me.
But comfort is a subjective thing - so try out what takes your fancy before parting with cash!
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EP - This is going to sound like a default response but really I urge you to try it. To put some flesh on the bones of this I damaged my back very severely many years ago in a bad riding accident. Cars have come and gone of many makes and types but ultimately Mondeos suit my crocked vertebrae better than anything. I've tried Volvos, Audis, BMWs, Citroens, Renaults, VWs, Mercs and more but when it comes to ergonomics I really can't recommend large Fords enough. Not sure why but there it is.
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 26/01/2010 at 19:16
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As a back sufferer I'm with HB on this. My recently sold Mondeo III was one of the most comfortable mass market cars I've owned. Not only was the seat comfort good so was the seat position relative to the major driving controls. On top of that the minor controls were so well laid out there was no twisting or stretching for anything. Also easy to get into through large door openings.
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I think you too had a "Ghia X" trimmed Mondeo didn't you M.M ? These have the additional benefit of electrically adjustable seats which can be fine tuned very easily to suit.
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 26/01/2010 at 19:30
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Yes that's right... the elec seats were not just a toy as the fine adjustment was excellent in all directions to get that perfect position. I very much liked the wipe clean aspect and looks of leather but it was quite a hard grade of hide so probably cloth best for ultimate comfort.
The guy who's bought it is a relative of a friend and over the moon with the car. It's nice as I bought it from a friend of ours two years ago... it's a car that has sold in a local area 3 times entirely on merit.
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I think Ford pride themselves on offering a wide range of driving positions.
Purely selfish, of course.
The more shapes and sizes of the human form the car can accommodate, the more potential there is for sales.
A Ford also makes sense given the OP's budget.
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The original Focus was design with the elderly and infirm in mind. The that end, the car is slightly higher than standard cars of its size and designers wore special suits to simulate being fat, less mobile etc etc.
Suggest the OP looks for an automatic Focus Mk1 as that may be the answer. Certainly I prefer cars which are just that little bit higher.
A left alternative, is the extremely comfortable Subaru Forester Mk1 or Mk2, which has a fantastic driving position, excellent access and in the non-Turbo models what feel like balloon tyres soaking up pretty well all road imperfections. You will find many automatic Foresters although the manuals are also comfortable. All are extremely reliable.
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If it wasn't for your economy requirement, you could have my S60 which is going in Autotrader at the weekend for £1995 ono. I guarantee you won't find a more comfortable car for anything like the money.
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Mondeo is the wise choice - although it really is bigger than I would like since much of my job demands fitting into tight parking spaces in dark evenings!
I can see the worth of an automatic but the driver in me just won't consider it - and rightly or wrongly I equate auto (especially of the age I would be looking at) as just one more reliability issue and drain on economy.
Any thoughts on a 1.6 Citroen Xsara? Size/economy/boot is spot on. Driving position from memory was good (and certainly much better than the Megane), I had a 1.4 in the past as a company car for a while and it was only the engine that gave any problems. Different engine may make it worth considering? If I could find one with a similar provenence as the Megane I would definitely consider it unless the BR wisedom shouts loudly against!!
Edited by Everest Pete on 27/01/2010 at 12:47
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From personal experience (I have back problems that are largely untreatable without surgery), I would stick to anything made by Volvo, and maybe some larger Saabs too.
Consider maybe the S40 or V50 if they're in price range.
Nobody makes seats as good as the Swedes, IMHO.
My biggest regret in selling my S80 is the loss of the incredible seats when compared to the lacklustre effort in my Citroën now.
p.s. I strongly recommend an auto box too, it's amazing how much effort on your whole body is required to depress a clutch and shift gears, and the stress that puts your back under.
Edited by TheOilBurner on 27/01/2010 at 13:07
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Definitely keep clear of the Mk2 Focus! probably the most uncomfortable seats I've ever sat in.
I have a lower back injury and unfortuntely can't afford to change my mk2 focus just yet and its killing my back. The seats are too hard and tilted at a bizarre angle. Combine that with a fairly heavy clutch (diesel) and its a recipe for a painful commute.
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Agreed re. the MkIII Mondeo, though it may depend on the model. Mine was a Ghia and the seat comfort/ergonomics were phenomenal. However, I had a MkIV Zetec on 3-day loan and didn't like the seats at all, and a quick try in a Titanium suggested they were not much better.....put me off buying another Mondy. Of course, comfort is subjective, so the OP must decide for himself.
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Hunt down a late low-mileage Citroën Xantia, these cars were often purchased by private owners so there's quite a few cared for ones around. They are reliable and supremely comfortable.
Here's an example of one with full service history and low miles...
dealerservices.autotrader.co.uk/17367/showroom.htm
(edit) it's at the bottom of the page £1,495.
Edited by SteveLee on 27/01/2010 at 14:29
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A car comfortable for others may not be comfortable for YOU.
So, just take long drives (at least 30+ minutes) and figure out which one works out best for you.
In my experience, if a car offers full seat adjustment (height etc.), steering adjustment (reach & rake) then almost anyone can be comfortable on it (unless you are either too tall or short which may affect headroom, un-supported leg etc.)
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Once you get to 5-6 hours of time in the saddle, that's when you really get to know how good the seats are! I used to think the Zafira seats were OK, but after the 3 hour mark they show their weaknesses readily enough.
I would also add that it's important to have seats that don't force you into a slouched or rounded posture. A good supportive seat that encourages good posture is what any physio would recommend. Few seats really qualify.
Poor seats with little support might feel comfortable initially (especially if you're used to slouching), but they do nothing for your long term spinal health.
Good lumbar support of the right amount, in the right place can help, but isn't always needed.
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Of course, if you find a car you really like apart from the seats, it's possible to buy seats from a different trim level or different model by the same maker, or from the aftermarket by the likes of Recaro, to fit. Lots available second hand...
Edited by dimdip on 27/01/2010 at 16:12
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Autoexpress do an annual survey where Volvo are always near the top of the pile for comfort.
www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/driver_power_2007...e
gory&cat=comfort
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 29/01/2010 at 17:15
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Autoexpress do an annual survey where Volvo are always near the top of the pile for comfort.
I would have the S60's seats in my lounge. They are by a country mile the most comfortable seats fitted to any car I've owned.
It's the thing I will miss most when the car goes. After a long day, I get in the car, and sometimes will actually say "aaaahhhh". Soft, but not squidgy, supportive, but not firm. Lovely.
I DO want to sell it. I DO want to sell it. I DO want to sell it......
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Do the S40 (older version) seats uphold Volvo's reputation? Seen a couple for sale in my price range which look good value/condition. I know they are not the last word in dynamic ability but despite being a saloon they seem to have good useable boot space, reasonable fuel economy (probably a 1.6 or 1.8) and sit somewhere between Focus/Mondeo size which suits me fine.
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I bought a (99) S40 estate to use as a hack while doing up my kitchen and bathroom, the (leather) seats were superb, shame about the chassis, when (admittedly driving like an idiot) each wheel seemed to lose grip at different times, completely bonkers feedback on the limit! The 2 litre petrol engine was surprisingly economical, 40+ mpg on a run no problem despite what felt like fairly short gearing. A good car on a budget.
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I would have the S60's seats in my lounge
There must be a market for a shop that takes Volvo seats (or any good chairs, what about Rover P5?), and convert them for the living room, clean them up and fix them to a frame with a choice of finishes. Call me eccentric, but I think it's a crying shame that good car seats get scrapped with the car, I'd rather have a Volvo or Saab seat than the sorry combination of glue, fabric and plywood that DFS sell for a living! :-)
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That sounds like a fabulous idea. I love it. My S80 was about the only place I could be and *not* be in pain! :)
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There must be a market for a shop that takes Volvo seats (or any good chairs what about Rover P5?) and convert them for the living room clean them up and fix them to a frame with a choice of finishes.
Well they have them on Top Gear.
A friend of mine used to say "aaarrrr" every time he got into my Cortina Ghia. When I scrapped the car I kept the seats with the intention of making them into furniture but never got round to it.
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There must be a market for a shop that takes Volvo seats (or any good chairs what about Rover P5?) and convert them for the living room clean them up and fix them to a frame with a choice of finishes.
I've long thought about getting an E-class or S-class seat from the breakers (making sure there's no blood on it!) and having a frame made up with a 12v battery in the base for the 'leccy operation!
Maybe I should start an operation up!
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Saabs are supposed to have back friendly seats offering lots of support.
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Yes, Saab 9-3 would be an option except economy is dreadful! Even the diesel is worse than most 1.6 petrols. And having looked at one for a mate before I could never put up with the noise and vibration from the diesel....
Keep the suggestions coming. I'm looking at a Xsara tomorrow, but am not in a made hurry - I'm sure my back will cope with a few more weeks of the Megane!
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Saw the Xsara. Have to say that driving position did seem good - pedals in the right place, gearstick and steering wheel all nicely to hand. But oh the interior! I had forgotten (or maybe I've just got used to better since) how cheap it was in the flesh. The Megane at least has soft dash top plastics and mouldings that fit where they are supposed to!
Mondeo is my next port of call, along with a Volvo S40. I admit to a preference in the Volvo, sorry HB!
If there are any others in the £2K price range anyone can suggest....
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Don't apologise EP ! The Volvo would be a fine car I'm sure.....if you're not fussy.....
;-)
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A C5 would be a better bet than a Xsara as far as comfort is concerned. Plenty within budget, too.
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As an update. After a lot of soul searching (and car searching!) I think automatic is the way to go. So now the question is - which autos would you recommend in terms of economy, reliability and comfort? I've seen a couple of Avensis in my budget which look like they tick all the boxes, and despite Toyotas current problems, experience with my wifes (non recalled) Rav4 suggests a well made, reliable product.
Has anyone direct experience of the auto Avensis?
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I should think the chances of finding a decent auto Avensis at £2k would be difficult to put it mildly - I would have thought that any half decent ones would have long been snapped up by the mini-cabbers.
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Saab seats are very comfortable. Bill the guy who ran Allsarb, the indy up at Oldham (now retied and closed), had Saab car seats in the waiting room. I think you could easily have a seat welded onto a frame to make a sofa.
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IIRC even the HJ review says SAAB seats are generally considered to be very comfortable. Think it was the 9-5 though!
FTF
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Ok, off to see a Saab 9-3 LPT(150bhp) auto tomorrow. MPG figures suggest around 30mpg average. Has anyone real world experience? Appreciate economy is going to be down somewhat from the Megane, but if it is going to be similar to the Passat I had previously then I can live with that for the comfort, looks (I just love this shape especially with the aero bodykit) and space.
My mate has a 185bhp and has on occasion got around 25mpg but then he thrashes it mercilessly all the time! (Incidently for anyone who remembers this mate was looking to change for a diesel - obviously as you can see he still hasn't!).
One I'm looking at is 2001 Y, 63000miles and 2 owner (Saab plus 1). Appreciate any input..
Edited by Everest Pete on 11/02/2010 at 14:32
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I post this with mixed feelings given Pete's reason for looking. I had a 1998 non-turbo 9-3 5-door for four years and 54,000 miles and was delighted with it. The LPT engine ought to give it the sense of purpose mine occasionally lacked on motorway inclines, and if used judiciously, should match the 32mpg average mine gave me.
The 9-3 also has excellent seats and plenty if space, as well as Saab's peerless instruments. But what it doesn't have is a perfectly aligned driving position; the centre of the wheel is offset to the driver's right by about 25mm. I don't think it caused me any problems, but if Pete's spinal damage is on the right, it may not work for him.
A long drive is the only way to be sure. With any luck, the seats - so much better than Renault's - will make up for the flawed geometry.
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Left field - a Lexus GS from about 1997. In the price bracket, comfy as slippers, seats will adjust in ways you didn't know they could adjust, smooth, quiet, have less than 100k on it and probably have another 100k in it, and will return about 30-34 on a run. Not too huge either.
Edited by Dipstick on 11/02/2010 at 16:22
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WDB has picked out what might be the crucial alignment issue for the OP. Try this site: www.car-seat-data.co.uk/ It lists various vehicles and their alignment properties.
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Really interesting site - but can't say I necessarily agree with all of them!
Megane according to this is fine except wheel angle no mention of offset pedals which it clearly has!
Peugeot 206 is rated as okay yet is commonly derided as having one of the worst driving positions going (and I agree)
And whats going on with the Mondeo scoring???
VW seem to come out well, and personal experience would let me agree. Perhaps I need to find a Passat again?
Anyway thanks all!
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Didn't look at the Saab, and really having trouble finding a good balance between price/economy/comfort AND auto models.
After a lot of thought, the two cars I have had in the past which were the most comfortable to drive and gave no problems were the Passat and Bora. Trouble is getting something decent in my limited budget, but if needs must I will have to stretch it a little. If an auto comes up I will look at it, but the economy hit according to official figures is quite substantial for my mostly urban travelling. If anyone has real world contradictory evidence for a particular make/model then please let me know!
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never had an auto that doesnt suck the juice
thing is if you want town pootling then you need small car small engine auto as a big car big engine just cant hope to cope with high mpg
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