I got a penalty charge notice (ticket) on Dec.6th, and replied promptly, with my reasons for not paying up. I heard nothing until today (Jan 22nd), over 6 weeks after the council received my letter on the 9th.
I suspect their timing works from the 28-day payment window, but it still seems a bit excessive. I have my argument ready WRT the offence, but it would be nice to be able to say 'too late chaps'! Does anyone have chapter and verse?
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I imagine it's been delayed due to weather/Christmas, but it's not unusual for a delayed response. I don't think there is a set time between PCN issue and response to an informal appeal. Your first letter would have "stopped the clock" while they look into it.
I am guessing that they have rejected your appeal and sent you a Notice to Owner?
Some councils now will never accept an informal appeal anymore as too many people try it on nowadays, so it's their way of scaring you with something more official...
Edited by Devolution on 22/01/2010 at 16:31
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Thanks D. I'm not sure what it is, actually. It says that a Notice to Owner will be sent in 28 days if I don't cough up, and that I will then have the opportunity to make formal representations. If those are rejected, and Notice of Rejection will be sent and then I can take it to tribunal (parking adjudicator). Confusingly, the letter calls itself a 'Notice of rejection of challenge' but presumably it isn't a real NoR!
I'd like to respond immediately, but I guess I should probably just sit tight and let them do the work.
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Ah ok. It's probably a letter that states that the informal appeal (your first letter) has been rejected. They have now, correctly, given you 28 days to pay. You may find they will even allow you a discount for paying within 14 days. If you do not want to pay and wish to fight the case, do nothing - a Notice to Owner will be sent, more info below...
What you do now is up to you and what argument you have for your case against. I recently appealed and won on a PCN based over a sign technicality. My council at the time were running a zero tolerance and refusing all initial informal appeals at the first stage. Partly due to the fact that the internet (forums like this and various "get off paying your ticket" sites) was causing every man and his dog to look for flaws in signage/bays/measurements etc.
My case was one of these, and I fought it all the way to the tribunal (which is in no way as scary as it sounds) and won, as many do.
Therefore if you have a good reason to fight it, don't be put off by the reason they may have given - they like to threaten things like "Notice to Owner" because it sounds official, and most people back down.
You need to decide if you want to stick to your guns and fight depending on the circumstances, or just pay up.
If you pay, you do within 28 days and it's settled. If you want to fight it, do nothing. In 28 days you will be sent the Notice to Owner. This is the formal demand for payment or appeal. Once you get this, you can then choose to pay (no discount) or "formally" appeal again, including any evidence you have regarding the circumstances of the alleged offence. The ball is then back in their court, but their will be a time limit imposed at this stage for them to reply back to you.
I won't detail the next stages yet, but if you need any more advice there's plenty to be had from around the forums here.
Edited by Devolution on 22/01/2010 at 17:57
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I paid today by telephone a bus lane nip that I got in Bath a couple of weeks ago. It was only 30 quid and I didn't bother to argue having been clearly photographed in an empty bus lane that had suddenly appeared under the wheels of my car.
There wouldn't have been much point in saying the road layout is deliberately filled with traps and that it is safer to go where you are going than to zigzag about in narrow 18th-century streets just because some prat has gone doolally with a few pots of paint. They would just have carried on scratching and chewing a cud of straws, and perhaps mooed dolefully a couple of times.
One can delay having to pay these things for quite a long time by arguing repeatedly. But the bureaucratic effort is more than I can put up with just to get the interest on thirty quid for a couple of months. Stamps cost a lot these days too.
Bedbugs and midges.
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I know you're right, really, Lud, but I just don't want to give them the satisfaction. It has probably already cost them the value of the fine in admin and since the attendant couldn't be bothered to fix the ticket properly (a point that even they concede, although not in quite those words) I will stick it out.
Thanks, both. I will report back, eventually!
Edited by Webmaster on 23/01/2010 at 01:25
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No worries, be interesting to see how you get on.
I agree partly with Lud too. In my case I nearly considered dropping it, but when they rejected my first appeal stating that:
"even though the signs are wrong, and the road markings are in disrepair you should still have known that you can't park there...."
then it got my back up. To be honest if I'd lost at the tribunal I wouldn't have minded paying £60. The money didn't bother me at all it was the principle. I always go out of my way or end up walking further to ensure I park appropriately, even putting a ticket on my car (£1) when I'm nipping into a shop for a few minutes, and the minimum ticket stay is 30 mins and most other people don't bother; I just don't take the risk.
The amount of paperwork they (council) sent me was huge, copies of warden's notebook, photos, TROs, statements, computer print out of my DVLA check.... trees worth of paper.
Edited by Devolution on 22/01/2010 at 20:52
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Devol,
Did the Council actually send somebody on the day of the tribunal?
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Did the Council actually send somebody on the day of the tribunal?
Nope. I'd moved by the tribunal date to somewhere 250 miles away, and asked it to be at my now nearest location.
EDIT: I didn't go either in the end, as they (council) wouldn't be adding anything other than the paperwork they'd submitted, and I had nothing to add so in the end declined to go. It was all sorted out very quickly and I was notified in writing of the result.
Edited by Devolution on 22/01/2010 at 23:33
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