Wife's Fiesta went in for first service yesterday, initially thought to be very convenient as they offered to collect and return.
They didn't collect until 11:15 despite being told she must have the car for 16:30 and returned the car at 17:00 - OK she does not finish work til 5pm.
When they rang her to collect payment they said they would put a litre of oil in the car for top ups, she believed from what was said that it ws FOC.
When car was delivered the oil is shown on the invoice as £8. . . She is not happy.
When I looked at the invoice I see they claim to have put 5l in the engine, am somewhat surprices and ask the wife when she got the V8 put in. It is a 1.4 which according to Ford's book takes 3.5L, so where did they put the other 1.5l - it is not in the sump as the level shows in between the full/top up bends.
Also their invoice does not add up - in our favour by a couple of pounds.
Will be an interesting discussion with the service manager this morning but it, and daughter's previous model Fiesta, won't be going back there again!
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Reminds me of car hire return - full tank on return.
3/4 days later bill arrives 45 litres of petrol @ 5p over street price +VAT!!!
45 litres was greater than the tank capacity.
The charge was for re-fuellling and they justified the cost with the labour involved - after 2 mins of justification the mention of tank capacity meant a refund was not a problem.
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Exactly this happened to me a while back - I had my then car in for its usual eye watering service, and they charged me for more oil than the sump could hold. After a gentle word with the service manager, they were most apologetic and sent me a £60 cheque, which was somewhat more than the overcharge, but nonetheless I didn't use that dealer again.
These days £60 is two fill ups, and buys me 800 miles. I find this helpful.
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Pretty much sums up my experience with Ford dealers. I used several when I was running a company Focus. All were dreadful. Every time I left there thinking how annoyed I'd be if it were my own car and money. But it wasn't, so that was something.
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There's a large, independent Ford dealer in Lichfield that I can recommend. My gf has used them a few times, and has found them to be cheap, straightforward, honest and without the patronising attitude she has found elsewhere.
No connection to them, but it's a nice contrast.
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Pretty much sums up my experience with Ford dealers. I used several ......
Pretty much the opposite of my experience of several Ford dealers.
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Perhaps for balance I should add to my anecdote that it wasn't a Ford, or Ford dealer.
Edited by Dipstick on 20/01/2010 at 09:31
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Service invoices have always struck me as ridiculous.
The amount you're actually charged is rarely the same as quoted (Mitsubishi service last year was £50 more!) and it often lists completely random things for oil and when you query it they get the mechanic and he says something like "oh, that's rubbish we always use xxxxx in those engines".
I don't understand why, if they quote you, say, £150, it doesn't just say "Service £150" instead of all the itemised prices for things like screenwash and seat covers which only get people annoyed.
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FREE TIP
if poss, always ask for a FULLY INCLUSIVE QUOTE. usually hassle free result.
there will be times when extra work is required, but when it comes to my humble cars, humble home, etc, a fully inclusive quote is always requested
thank you
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Why the Darwin award ?
Is it to do with the natural selection process or survival of the fittest ??
or is it that they had not yet fully evolved from apes yet ?
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It refers to the fact that they won't get anymore business from this family.
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Apparently in some dealerships the invoices are put together by administrators who may have no technical knowledge at all and who pull labour charges out of thin air
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I was charged for valve clearances and new sparkplugs on my diesel at its 25k service. Neither apply!
I did get my money back, but I didn't go back.
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Sorry but anyone who gets their car serviced without a quote first is being commercially naive.
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In always get a quote and have it confirmed when I leave the car. I'm then not bothered what the invoice says as long as the total is what I agreed to pay.
I did nearly fall off the chair when Toyota quoted for a new pollen filter as an addition to the next service. It's a job which takes 30 seconds and I can get the part for £10 - cost to supply and fit £60! I politely declined.
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Sorry but anyone who gets their car serviced without a quote first is being commercially naive.
Well yes, I wouldn't dream of getting work down without a proper quote, but it's not that simple on a service is it? The car could require all sorts of work ( brakes pads being a favourite) as a result of the service, you can't get a price in advance without knowing the work needed in advance.
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Hi
please try and help yourself here if you can.
years ago, got a full service quote for my A4, front brake pad renewal with sensors. the type of oil and bosch/vag parts. anything else that needed to be done, they would have to consult me first. agreed drop off and wait or agreed pick up times. if the dealer feels you is knowing what you is chatting about, likely to get a better service. simple as that.
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Well yes I wouldn't dream of getting work down without a proper quote but it's not that simple on a service is it? The car could require all sorts of work ( brakes pads being a favourite) as a result of the service you can't get a price in advance without knowing the work needed in advance.
The extra work isn't servicing. It's a pet hate of mine that people say "the service cost £600" when in fact the service was £150 and they had a ton of additional work.
For most owners things like brake pads are probably a one-off occurance (unless you keep buying use cars with brakes on their last legs!).
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For most owners things like brake pads are probably a one-off occurance (unless you keep buying use cars with brakes on their last legs!).
One of the things I noticed with my old Focus was the dealer would fit new front discs and pads at every service (12.5k). I'm not hard on brakes, and I started checking the pads before it went in, and they were never anywhere near the point where I'd even consider changing them on my own car. Part of me couldn't help thinking the lease companies would cough up for anything brake related for H&S reasons, or the technician would say the friction material was more worn than it really was. In any case, it was an easy £100 or so of fat profit margin turnover that nobody ever seemed to question. Least of all me as I wasn't paying for it.
The Renault dealer we used for the Scenic's servicing took a far better approach. They would measure the friction material and disc thickness, note it on the service check-sheet, and assuming the brakes weren't excessively worn, advise whether the pads/discs would, or wouldn't last 'til the next service. If they wouldn't, they'd suggest bringing the car in in x,000 miles for a (free) brake check, and subsequent replacement if necessary.
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Part of me couldn't help thinking the lease companies would cough up for anything brake >> related for H&S
I ran company lease cars for years. There is absolutely no way a lease company would pay for new pads and discs every 12500 miles.
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They did in this case.
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They did in this case. >>
Clearly the fleet/lease company was negligent and/or competent and/or impotent in not forcing manufacturers to adopt longlife 25k mile interval servicing for these cars, and particularly so in insisting that 50k miles longlife brake pads to be introduced. ;-)
Edited by jbif on 20/01/2010 at 16:08
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Clearly the fleet/lease company was negligent and/or competent and/or impotent in not forcing manufacturers to adopt longlife 25k mile interval servicing for these cars and particularly so in insisting that 50k miles longlife brake pads to be introduced. ;-)
lol :-)
I always found it ironic that I had to beg to get tyres changed at 2.5mm, but they'd fork out for completely unnecessary pad and disc changes without (to my knowledge) arguing at all.
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They did in this case.
I think you'll find they either claimed it back off your employer due to driver abuse, or they claimed it back off Ford as excessive wear beyond the average. Manufacturers guarantee the costs of service and maint to keep the lease costs competitive.
Your point about tyres is absolutely standard practice too, so, as you say, why on earth would they cheerfully pay for pads & discs over and over again?
Edited by Bill Payer on 20/01/2010 at 17:40
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Believe me, if it had been a driver abuse claim from my company, I'd have known about it. This was a company who, quite seriously, threatened to fine me for two stone chips on the bonnet of the car when it was returned with 100,000 miles on the clock, and would also dock £200 from the salary of any employee allowing a car to go more than 1000 miles overdue for a service. They were unbelievably zealous when it came to the car fleet.
I don't claim to know how they did it, but there was nothing wrong with the pads and discs they changed. I wouldn't have even considered changing them, or even keeping an eye on them had it been a car I was maintaining myself. Just to show you it's not how I drive the car, my current bigger, heavier, twice as powerful Volvo has done 20k on its current front brakes, and they're not close to replacement yet.
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Why the Darwin award ?
This would seem to the the financial equivalent of a Darwin Award; maybe the Brown award?
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The prices on the invoice are usually cobbled together so it adds up to (roughly) the quoted price.
Almost every time I get one of our cars serviced the bill is a pound or two less than the original quote but the costs of individual items can cary a bit (eg. same spec oil may be more/less per litre a few months apart).
I think it is simply the way garages get services to a nice, round(ish) figure and not fraudulent/deception.
Must be a service department chap in the BR who can advise on this....
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I used to watch the service desk put these bills together - the more naive you are, the more they charged you generally - they actually racked up the parts costs as this was the one thing people couldnt challenge unless they knew the price of inddividual parts ( few ever bother ).
In 2002 I saw a cambelt service on a Rover 100 to an old lady bumped from £600 to £800 odd by way of lots of little fiddles and tweaks on the costs. My collegue and I were horrified but we were told to mind our own business. Eeek.
With all this knowledge, I always know what the items for a service are and then my Daihatsu dealer quotes me a standard price for the work - they have NEVER come in over that price and occasionally are under it. When booking the job, the quotation is put on the jobcard and the invoice. Saves messing about.
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.... When they rang her to collect payment they said they would put a litre of oil in the car for top ups, she believed from what was said that it ws FOC. ....
When I looked at the invoice I see they claim to have put 5l in the engine, ... >>
Should have first gone to Specsavers Honestjohn.co.uk
www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=92
110. GARAGE SERVICE RIP-OFFS: What potential rip-offs are dishonest garage service departments capable of?
The Fluids Overfill
Charge the customer for an quantity of oil, coolant, ATF, gearbox oil, brake fluid, etc over and above what the car will actually take. Very few punters ever spot this and if they do, tell them it's a clerical error, revise the invoice and refund them the extra money. 99 times out of 100 you'll never have to.
The Over-the-Top Oil Earner
Even though the workshop's engine oil comes from a bulk tank at a huge discount, still charge for it per litre as if it has been supplied in individual litre bottles.
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Reading threads like this puts me right off using any other dealer than the one I've used for my Mazda for the past seven years. I've never been charged more than has been quoted for a service, infact, over the last two years I've been charged less.
Clk Sec
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so you've been sold 6 litres of oil at £8 a litre and its a ford ?
are you sure you've read the invoice correctly?
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I can claim some degree of innocence here. It is her car and she booked the service. I thought she would check on price before she booked but didn't (she normally haggles), she says she expected it to be a standard price. Now a question for the rest of you - how often do you successfully tell your wife off !
The answer from the dealer.
Explained my issues to him and he went away to check . .
Very apologetic, the service is an all inclusive fixed price which she should have been given when she booked it and includes the litre of oil for topping up. We have however been overcharged by a couple of pounds (above the fixed price) and this is being re-funded together with a gift voucher for the wife.
The invoice breakdown is really for internal use but my question has highlighted to him (service manager) that the parts dept are overcharging him for oil, he will be billed for 5l instead of the 3.5l they put in. It should show more labour to balance it to the fixed price - parts/service battle to commence today - it is a big group and I would expect them to charge between departments).
He still does not understand why the sum of the items does not equal the total.
All in all a reasonable result and next time she WILL ask for a fixed price and WILL tell them that she does not want the top up oil - none gone in in the first year.
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...the service manager makes it sound llike you're the first person to ever complain about the bill. Hmmmm.
Reminds me of first service on daughter's Mitsubishi Colt. Two different people at the dealership quoted £125 +VAT (I hate it when they say "+VAT"). So I had £150 in my head.
Go to pick the car up and they cheerfully present a bill for £199! The staff seemed stunned and had no idea where £125 could possibly have come from. They all but accused me of lying. They spent 30 mins looking stuff up and messing about with the bill to get it anywhere near £150.
Car gets serviced somewhere else now.
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Have to say I now usually ring up the two or three local dealers first and get the best quote, but also make very sure that when I turn up and am handing over the key I say "and I'm expecting to pay £x unless you find something else and ring me first". They always say yes, and write it on the job sheet so there's no argument later.
Easys.
Edited by Dipstick on 21/01/2010 at 08:51
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Have to say I now usually ring up the two or three local dealers first and get the best quote but also make very sure that when I turn up and am handing over the key I say "and I'm expecting to pay £x unless you find something else and ring me first". They always say yes and write it on the job sheet so there's no argument later. Easys.
I do the same, check 3/4 Franchise dealers (when car is under warranty) and then mention price when handing car keys over.
Last time the 10-40 oil was put in instead of fully synthetic!
On querying this the Service manager explained 20% voucher off service price the "well known chain of Scottish Garages" has a policy of downgrading the oil!!
After discussing matters for 30 mins the oil was replaced by 5-30 synthetic.
Last time that garage gets any of my money - service or new car
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