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I am with barney100 on this. I am 76 years of and have been driving for 58 nyears in the days when a starting handle was basic equipment and some wimps didnt moan about tyre noise. ALL maembers of my extended family are happy to travel with me. I can hold my own on the motorway and until 3 years ago was employed by an auction company to collect and drive all manner of cars. I have never been involved in an accident. Some of you younger drivers are not as good as you think you are based on some of the stupid antics I have seen recently.Because one is old doesnt mean they are senile so lets have less of it.
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Obviously older people whose eyesight or other faculties that affect their driving ability should hang up their keys. But most of the dangerous driving one sees on the road is done by people who are not elderly.
I do advocate an upper age limit for driving, though, which I'd set at 90. Most people don't live to 90. Of those who do live to 90, most will have given up driving. Of those over 90 who do still drive, a good proportion are probably unsafe. We accept a lower age limit for driving of 17, so why not an upper one too?
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>>> and have been driving for 58 nyears in the days when a starting handle was basic equipment <<<
Yeah, I used to know folk who carried a starting handle in their cars :-)
The issue here isn't about ageism, OAP's, old buffers or the chronologically challenged,
its about *FRAIL* elderly drivers.
Like I said - my Brother is becoming frail, both physically AND mentally ... I'm talking about senility here, and I would say that he could/would 'potentially' be a danger to others AND himself on a fast moving M-way.
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Actually - ther article says they should be banned from 70moh roads - not just motorways. That immediately means that my old mand and me would be stuck in the village, since the only road out is on to a dual carriageway.
And 85, my old man could give many a 25 year old a run for his money - he regularly drives well over the speed limit, and can still do very impressive handbrake and J turns.
Not everyone who is old is decrepit.
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>>> not everyone who is old is decrepit. <<<
No more than every young blood is a lunatic, the article is mainly referring to those that have lost a marble or 6.
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Somehow the fact that he regularly drives well over the speed limit does not strike me as proof of his ability to drive safely :-)
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Have to agree with that one HJ, I know I do not have the reactions I did 30 years ago but I believe I am far safer now because I leave more space, slow down earlier for hazards and take an extra look.
Having been through it with a number of elderly relatives I hope that I, and others on the backroom, will be sensible enough to know when it is time to say enough, whatever age it ends up being.
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Last Friday the town in which I work was shut down due to an incident involving an elderley driver.
A lady was walking on a zebra crossing and a car had already stopped to allow this.
A woman in her mid 80's overtook the stationary vehicle and hit the lady on the crossing. She was dragged a hundred yards or so along the road until the elderley driver realised and stopped. 4 hours later the road was still shut whilst they attempted to scrape the victim from the road and take her hospital where she remains in a coma and awaiting facial reconstruction.
In this type of incident it wasnt slow reactions that caused it, it was a simple case that the old woman failed to spot the crossing, failed to spot the car which had stopped and failed to stop despite hitting a grown adult.
Last week there was another incident on the A12 at Ardleigh where a man in his 80's drove the wrong way up the dual carriageway causing mayhem. He hit a few cars and eventually a van, killing himself and badly injuring the van driver.
You can't tell me in either case they looked twice or three times before continuing on their journey's of destruction.
I say re test everyone every ten years and make it compulsory to have an eye test and medical examination. Those who fail to show the most basic of abilities should be taken off our already crowded roads and made to use public transport.
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>>> re test everyone every ten years and make it compulsory to have an eye test and medical examination. Those who fail to show the most basic of abilities should be taken off our already crowded roads and made to use public transport. <<<
I quite agree comrade Snutz ... I hope that if and when the day comes when I'm 'passed it', I'll be advised (or required) to throw in the towel.
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Compulsory and free eye tests for all driving licence holders would help with the eyesight problems. I am sure the removal of free eye tests for adults has led to far many more people driving around unable to see properly. Eyesight often deteriorates slowly so most people will be unaware that it is getting worse as they literally can't see the problem!
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Agreed, TB. Those of us who've had correctable visual defects from an early age (teens in my case) have been in the system all our driving lives and are routinely summoned for re-testing. Wearing contacts is even better - the optician won't issue them without a current prescription, and that expires after 18 months and requires a re-test. It's the drivers who've never been tested that worry me - and you can see the evidence as dusk falls every winter evening.
No reason to make it free, though - unless you're going to restore free testing for everyone, which is another debate. It's a driver's responsibility to be fit to drive and to pay the costs of that if necessary.
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Last Friday the town in which I work was shut down due to an incident involving an elderley driver.
Round here, and in most places I suspect, roads are normally shut because of reckless younger drivers, not elderley... just read your local papers, the youngsters far exceed the elderly!
Edited by b308 on 27/01/2010 at 17:18
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Based on a majority of old people rather than a handful of pensioners who claim they can "Hold their own"...
I think old drivers, looking at the whole perspective, should have to take a re-test based on re-flexes of some sort...
When I was a full time sales rep & RAC van driver, I have seen old men sometimes being worse than Young men... Tut Tut Tut - Young blood & old testosterone can be as bad as eachother...
The worst case of wrecklessness from an old frail looking driver I've ever witnessed was on the M3, this old guy was with his wife (assuming) in a brand new Volvo V50 2.0D estate. He was worse than any young driver I've seen so far. Apart from undertaking everything/overtaking anything. He was using the joining slip-roads as an extra undertaking lane, good-ness knows what a Police officer would have said to him if he pulled him over. The old guy was absolutely dangerous, I know some old men like to prove to their wives that even after all these years... They've still got it. But driving dangerously at everyone elses expense in a Volvo V50 is not something that should make the older generation something to be proud of...
"Freeda, I might be 75 - but look at me I'm alive & I can still drive"
"Stop it, don't be so silly, you are going to kill us both Herbert!" <- the likely conversation in the Volvo V50.
It has to be said...
80% of old drivers on the Motorway or Dual carridgeway generally travel at a slower speed than us young men (55-60Mph typically in a Rover 25 or Nissan Micra with a tartan blanket laid across the parcel sheft)
However, they do have this awful habit of not moving to lane 2 to let traffic merge onto the motorway/dual carridgeway. Elders usually sit behind a large lorry & make us suffer, If the left lane was full of old men/women that won't move over, I would have to resort to using the hard shoulder if I can't stop.
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... in a brand new Volvo V50 2.0D estate...
Peter, you've neglected to tell us the colour and whether is was an S, SE or Sport model. Without these essential details, how can we judge the true egregiousness of the old boy's driving?
};---)
More seriously, reflexes are involuntary, so testing them is missing the point; a driver who depended on reflexes would be terrifying. Even conscious reactions aren't a driver's main asset - we're not playing computer games out there. As Commerdriver said, what matters is observation - requiring adequate eyesight - and the sense to position yourself so there's time to react. I'm 42 and possibly less reactive than I was, but I'd far rather ride with me now than with my 22-year-old self - and not just because Ageing WdB has a more comfortable car!
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"But driving dangerously at everyone elses expense in a Volvo V50 is not something that should make the older generation something to be proud of... "
A load of ageist twaddle there PP, (in a largely ageist twaddle thread.) I think I`m going to have to buy a fast bike again ;-)
Mental capacity/capability to drive safely is the real issue and could usefully be run right across the age range.
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Mental capacity/capability to drive safely is the real issue and could usefully be run right across the age range.
Indeed oilrag. If it was really possible to test for that affordably, my guess is that traffic congestion would be eased at a stroke. And many of those deemed unfit to drive would be young or middle-aged.
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The worst case of wrecklessness from
(Wry smile, and not at the spleeing, either)
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What happens when the retirement age is abolished and we get lots of 80-year old white van men and sales "managers" in their beemers and audis ? AAARGH !
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I may be considered `frail and elderly` for example - depending on the age and physical capabilities being compared with- yet mental capacity and capability are not necessarily related.
Dementia - for example is not a normal part of the ageing process. There`s an increased frequency of it with advancing age - but the majority of older people retain their mental abilities.
Blanket statements about older people being somehow less than others in their rights are ageist.
If you start trying to ban frail and elderly drivers from any part of normal life (motorways)- you reduce them as human beings.
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Ageism is legally on a par with all the established -isms these days. Many in industry will have had to attend diversity courses where in addition to being told the obvious, you are told you cannot any longer affectionately refer to an older colleague as Pop, or make witty but age related comments on Birthday cards etc etc. Some may consider it a step too far, but that's the way it is. So Oilrag is spot on, it couldn't be done arbitrarily.
When they reach 4x4ism, taxi driver-ism, BMW-ism, female driver-ism, lorry-ism there won't be much left to discuss about in the Back Room!!. :-)
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back seat was taken out of my cinema to stop youngens snogging there
same as saying all old drivers as frail
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If you glance at the words above, you'll notice it says "Frail elderly drivers should be banned from the motorway".
it's nothing to do with age-ism whatsoever.
I gave you a 'for instance' earlier up this thread - my brother is frail + elderly + has poor eyesight + is showing signs of dementia and IMO he (and others suchlike) should be *restricted* from taking a motor vehicle onto a fast moving motorway.
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But you'd consider it OK for your brother to drive at 20mph along a busy shopping street, Perro? Strikes me that motorways aren't really the issue; some people are fit to drive, others aren't. It's just a question of how - and how often - that fitness is measured.
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>>> you'd consider it OK for your brother to drive at 20mph along a busy shopping street <<<
No, not in my bro's case WillDe, he recently rear ended a car writing both cars off and I hear that only this week he hit the kerb whilst taking someone home ... but I take on board what you say here ~ It's just a question of how - and how often - that fitness is measured <<<
As I know a 19 year old type 1 diabetic who - no matter how many driving tests he took, there was no way the examiner would issue him with a pass.
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I think Gp`s need to take more of a lead role on capacity to drive - being as they are at the gateway of care. Simple mental state assessment can be done in the surgery.
When working, I found a blind eye was turned to some capacity issues and driving and that led to all sorts of problems.
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To kill the steroetypical view of all over 80s being decrepit, I'll use two words:-
Stirling Moss
I'd pit his driving abilities against any 17 - 35 year old.
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Exceptional exceptions excepted old boy.
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