I am going to look at an '04 BMW for sale privately circa £10k. For 30+ years I have always bought my cars privately, normally from friends/colleagues/BR etc and have never had a problem or done an Hpi check. However, I have never spent this much money without knowing the person!
I shall of course make sure that the mileage on the MOT certificates makes sense, the service history is in place, check receipts (if any) etc. Apart from spending £20 on an Hpi check, is there anything else I may have forgotten?
Many thanks
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Of course an HPi check is a must at this price but as stories have shown on here it doesn't stop problems with cloned stolen cars.
Be like a detective with the person, their house, their circumstance, their family and their behaviour.
Most dodgy folks will have something to catch them out if you prod enough.
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Remember to go with a witness and ask direct questions about the car too. Ask if the car has sustained any damage, ask if it has needed any out of service repairs. On the whole though, not much more you can do with a private sale.
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Make sure the person who is selling the car actually does live in the house from where the car is being sold. Have a very good look at the V5C and be aware that hundreds of blank ones have been stolen from under the DVLA's nose; I kid you not!
Pay for the car by a means which is traceable, a cheque, CHAPS, BACS, NOT cash.
From a couple of noted posts which have appeared on this forum fairly recently then, no, an HPI check isn't sufficient. People have posted that they've gone down this route and still ended up with a car which is stolen.
I don't want to put you off, OP, but, like you, I've always bought my cars privately. However, I now feel I've carried out this activity for the last time, having been reading some of the things that are going on.
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An HPI check isn't worth the paper it is printed on in my opinion (and experience). For all you know, you might be checking a different car from the one you think you are buying. As for any comeback on HPI, there is effectively none as their insurance cover has so many loopholes when things go wrong.
Don't expect any help from the DVLA either. They can tell you one thing over the phone and then deny it a few months later (recorded calls are only kept for three months). There are batches of authentic but stolen V5Cs doing the rounds at the moment, but the DVLA refuses to acknowledge these even exist (and therefore offer to pay any compensation) to the public. They will only admit to one batch ever having been stolen (in early 2007, serial numbers BG 916-919) but the latest lot begin with the letters BM.
The only way of being sure when buying a used car these days is from a friend or someone you know/trust, or from a dealer.
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Nothing illegal about recording calls yourself as long as the other party is aware.
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obviously for training purposes only--------
squire.
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Nothing illegal about recording calls yourself as long as the other party is aware.
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Is it illegal if the other party aren't informed the calls being recorded?
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Nothing illegal about recording calls yourself as long as the other party is aware.
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I understood that recording telephone calls was legal so long as ONE of the parties to the conversation was aware that the call was being recorded.
A few years ago I owned a company in which we recorded all incoming calls. I don't understand why it should be a problem? It's only the truth isn't it?
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I understood that recording telephone calls was legal so long as ONE of the parties to the conversation was aware.....
Thats why I ask... my company have told us, that calls are being recorded - but nothing is said on the phone when you call....
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hi, hpi is a massive help, i generally use the rac website one . 3 for £25,or £10 each,it covers all the options, finance etc,always check that the vin number imprinted on the car matches your hpi check and the cars v5. Providing that the imprinted v5 has not been tampered with you should then avoid clones.
Another usefull site to help confirm mileage plus what a car has needed for an MOT, is is the MOT/ VOSA site www.motinfo.gov.uk.This shows details of MOT,s and mileages back to 2006 .You need the cars reg number , plus the V5 doc reference number on the front of the V5 To access the site which is free of charge.
The only other problem you may encounter which I have ,Is where ownership of the car is disputed ,I dont think you can check that in advance ,See my post on 15 01 10 for more infoon this .good luck with your purchase .
tony g
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I'll start by saying I'm not an HPI expert, but I think the 3rd party versions (perhaps including access via the RAC) have been found less than 100% reliable. From personal experience, I found the most reliable way to use HPI is to phone them with the seller's V5C in front of you, as a last step before completing a deal. That way, they ask all the questions they need and you just have to answer. In contrast, when I've used HPI on-line, the report seems to come with disclaimers unless further information is supplied, which I usually don't seem to have. Bad news is it costs more to call HPI direct - £25 I think. The one time I did this, it stopped me buying a CatD which had been written off when only a few months old.
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The RAC site is the one that I recently used while inadvertently buying a stolen car. No cloned/stolen car insurance at all on offer, despite being powered by HPI (RAC used to own HPI but then sold it on to a US outfit). If you do the same check via the HPI web site directly at a cost of £19.99 there's meant to be £15k of cover - but not one person as far as I have been made aware has ever received a payout.
The V5 that came with this car had not been tampered with. It was an authentic watermarked blank that had been filled in by seller. Indeed, it included and matched every detail that was on the V5 of the real vehicle - including the serial number and even the document reference number.
I don't wish to be a prophet of doom. The probability of coming unstuck buying a used car remains low. Just be aware of the risks and the fact that the crooks involved in this business are organised and have become much slicker.
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I'd check the identity of the person selling the car. Ask to see their driving licence to prove who they are and their address. If it doesn't match what is on the V5 or something doesn't feel right, walk away. If they come up with any excuse as to why they can't prove who they are or they're suddenly 'selling the car for a friend' walk away.
MOT certificates can be stolen so check with the issuing station that they did actually see the car. DVLA do an info check on car details. BMW main dealers should be able to verify information from the VIN/reg etc. This should all tie up with the paperwork.
Definitely check the engine number and VIN plate. Also find plastics inside the car as some of those have date stamps and make sure they match the age of the car.
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Westpig's comment...
**if it seems too good to be true or you have any kind of concern/alarm bell go off...trust your judgement ignore the 'bargain' and walk away. It's amazing how many people override their own warning systems.**
His final sentence is all important and echos what I said above...
**Be like a detective with the person, their house, their circumstance, their family and their behaviour. Most dodgy folks will have something to catch them out if you prod enough.**
Folks who have explained their disaster stories on here are to be applauded for doing so but the hard truth is that in their narrative are often clues that should have made them walk away long before parting with the cash.
Having "qualified" the private seller on the phone and then in person at their home, assuming they pass every test 100%, I think you have then got to a position that is safer than a medium size (ie non main dealer) car sales lot where you have no real clue as the the previous owner/users standards of care.
Edited by M.M on 17/01/2010 at 10:55
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can i also just remind people just because you are going to a gated drive and there are other nice cars parked up on this property it can still easily be a rented property.
Further they might sell you the car and steal it back next week
Further still friend of mine was done via the patio doors last week they came in the night as they slept,both cars gone, one found ,the bmw is still missing,dont for one moment think this car will be broke because im pretty sure it wont its a dead cert it will be a clone of possibly a clone to a man who did all the checks,we are talking big business here and its usually itinerents that drive it with front men putting on the speil for their £200 a sale bonus then they slip into the night
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A good way to check on the seller is to ask the neighbours.
''Have they lived there long?" and: "Has that BMW been on the drive for long?" would be a good start.
Most people won't object provided you explain why you are asking.
And so what if they do?
Just move on to the next house - someone will play ball.
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You could also check their details on the electoral roll or via a third party site like 192.com
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...You could also check their details on the electoral roll or via a third party site like 192.com...
Good point, and it's something you can do before going to see the vehicle.
The only weakness is that it is possible to ask for a restricted entry on the roll, which means you are on it, but will not appear on the published document.
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Crickey...reading the replies to this post, it sounds like you need to employ a private detective before buying a car privately these days!
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>>The only weakness is that it is possible to ask for a restricted entry on the roll, which means you are on it, but will not appear on the published document.
The full electoral register can be viewed under supervision at local council offices, and, I believe, at some libraries.
Clk Sec
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...The full electoral register can be viewed under supervision at local council offices, and, I believe, at some libraries...
Clk Sec,
Thanks, I wasn't sure about that.
So it is perfectly reasonable to ask the supervising person: "Can you show me who is registered to vote at 6 Acacia Gardens?"
Of course, the OP would have to go to a council office or library local to the address where the car is kept.
I would still be inclined to tap on a few doors.
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I think when it comes to HPi the consensus is that its a hell of a lot better to have it than not. However they can never be foolproof.
For example, one of the things you want to know about on a Hpi is whether the car has been repaired after a serious accident. There are plenty of ways this could slip through the net, and a car gets repaired ready for resale by an unscrupulous dealer, to sell on to someone who is less than eagle eyed.
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Many thanks for all your replies.
I bought the car yesterday, some two weeks after originally looking at it, and got a full HPi check. As recommended by HJ, I did the HPi check the day before collection and payment, then whilst at the sellers home rang them again to make sure no loan had 'just' been taken out against the car.
I met the children, the family dog, went through all the documents which cross checked with info on www.motinfo.gov.uk The invoice for the new tyres was raised the same day as the MOT failure for worn tyres and the service book is stamped by the garage who did the MOT. It was a genuine reason for sale...stuck at the bottom of a long icy drive for 5 weeks and a replacement 4 x4 had been bought privately.
The sellers were equally wary of my Building Society cheque payment...making sure it was ok and seeing all the paperwork! Rightly so.
Everyone was happy and sadly I now have to sell my lovely Mazda 626. But the 330Ci is an extravagant early wedding present to ourselves and we bought it at the right time of year!
Thanks again for everyone's advice
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