We have a good manual, front wheel drive 1.8 estate which we have had for several years and are very pleased with. With luck and a sense of timing we have managed to avoid difficult driving conditions until this year. Would we be better changing to a 4 x 4 equivalent or simply getting 4 winter/snow tyres? We have no desire to go off road. Thanks for advice from people who have experienced both scenarios
{post amended - no need to SHOUT!}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 09/01/2010 at 14:51
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4 good winter tyres £250.
replacement car £000s
Simples.
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Madf speaks the truth, plus this is a pretty unusual winter so you might buy a 4x4 and see no benefit in the entire time you own it.
My wife's Freelander has been ace, but we did already own it!
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Why burn extra fuel lugging 200-300 KGs of superfluous drivetrain around for the 50 weeks of the year where you don't need it! Winter tyres every time unless of course you do offroad towing or anything else that requires 4WD.
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I could have added:
winter grip is needed for both driving straight, cornering and braking.
A 4x4 only helps for going straight.
Winter tyres help for cornering and braking.
Still simples..
A good 4x4 and winter tyres means you will be stuck on normal roads.. behind everyone else who cannot move.
Been there, done it. Stoke on Trent in heavy snow stops .. even 4x4s .. The buses can't get up the hills or down them...No-one can get past the buses..
And I have seen 4x drivers who are incompetent fail to traverse roads I have done in a Yaris with summer tyres...
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In answer to the OP, I can't believe that I forgot to suggest that you buy a Subaru Legacy.
Brilliant estate, well equipped, matchless reliability and 4x4 (but more for spirited road holding), but mine did get me up and down some slopes in the last week or two that had defeated other mere mortals of the automotive world.
It is the car of choice of country vets for a reason.
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In answer to the OP I can't believe that I forgot to suggest that you buy a Subaru Legacy. Brilliant estate well equipped matchless reliability and 4x4 (but more for spirited road holding) but mine did get me up and down some slopes in the last week or two that had defeated other mere mortals of the automotive world. It is the car of choice of country vets for a reason.
The point of this thread is a front wheel drive car with winter tyres will climb any snowy gradient a Legacy can climb with standard tyres, actually it may be easier to drive, up a slippery slope as a rear or four wheel drive vehicle may "crab" sideways as they're wheel-spinning scrabbling for grip, the front wheel driven vehicle's tail will faithfully follow the direction of travel.
Obviously 4x4+winter tyres will be awesome but that's not the point of the thread.
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It's a question of degree. The jump from 'normal' car to 4x4 is quite big in terms of cost and every day driving style.
If you can be sure that when it snows it stays snowing and then doesn't disappear in a day or two then snow tyres are a clear and obvious choice. But this is weird weather and snow is generally a 48 hour thing for most parts of the UK so it's unlikely people will switch tyres/wheels for 48 hours unless they live up a mountain, but that would decide it for them ie 4x4.
A car like a Legacy makes more sense for more of the time with no sacrifice. If it's really bad then stick your 4 winter tyres on your Legacy and then you are really on song.
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A 4x4 only helps for going straight.
Not true. The Jimny is sliding about all over the shop in 2wd on bends but in 4wd we just go round.
MD
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Without doubt - good winter tyres!
Changed my Fabia VRS from 205/45/16 to 185/60/15 with continental winter tyres on a set of fleabay alloys for £50. The difference is incredible and it is virtually unstoppable in ice/snow apart from ground clearance issues.
The cost of running a 4x4 all year if you don't need it for other things is huge. The cost for a second set of wheels/tyres is only the cost of the rims.
HTH
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Taking on a Forester 2.0L last autumn, I didn't think I'd want to keep it as an everyday car. Obviously the 4wd has come in handy in the current conditions, but even beyond that, after several 000s of miles on all types of roads, it makes a lot more sense than I first realised. Let's face it, UK roads are crap. Even the surfaces on the motorways are breaking up and have potholes now. And as for speed humps....
So why do we see a continuing trend for low profile tyres and taught suspension when bigger wheel diameter, high profile tyres and longer suspension travel give a more comfortable ride?
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So why do we see a continuing trend for low profile tyres and taught suspension when bigger wheel diameter high profile tyres and longer suspension travel give a more comfortable ride?
Because entertainment programs like TG would rubbish the handling and exaggerate roll etc to 'highlight' the problem of proper suspension and tyres with sniggering follow up remarks causing much hilarity in the 'audience'.
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Because entertainment programs like TG would rubbish the handling and exaggerate roll . . .
Indeed. And in reality, we are driving more and more slowly, so the handling and roll attributes become increasingly less important anyway.
(that should've been 'taut' shouldn't it...)
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This thread got me thinking, in 20 years time when the majority of cars will be electric and assuming you could buy a car with an electric motor on each wheel, having a 4wd vehicle could be the norm couldn't it?
No heavy drivetrain, no need for limited slip diffs or fancy viscous couplings, just clever monitors and sensors on each corner giving power where it was required.
Mind you the cars could be just as heavy with all those batteries on board and I wonder how an all electric car would cope in 10 days of minus temperatures?
Sorry going off topic a bit
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Tyres. You don't need a 4x4 unless you want one of course!!
Just look at the number of BMW X3/5's that are struggling in this weather, as well as other urban 4x4's then look at the Land Rovers and the proper 4x4's etc. They have much better grip due to their tyres, the 4x4 does help, but for the average motorist on our roads winter tyres would get you around the majority of where you want to go with ease.
Or even cheaper get a set of snow chains/autosocks, and just put them on when you need them.
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I think the reason the x5 ect struggles in snow is due to the wide tyres fitted, rally drivers in snow use skinny tyres, along with 4 wheel drive.
Winter tyres make sense, but how many people have space to store 4 tyres?
I bought a A4 1.8T Quattro Avant,back in 2000, that car proved to me, that 4 wheel drive was worth having for all the year round motoring, it would literally launch itself at round about etc, no wheel spin, no traction control.
It wasn't that great in snow, mainly due to the 245/45/17 tyres.
Both the xtrails i have had, have been great in snow, most of the time it runs in front wheel drive, with auto selected, 4x4 selects on demand.
Don't knock the modern 4 wheel drive, as some one above said, the future is a motor for each wheel, that is 4 wheel drive on demand.
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