I was thinking about this as I walked down Berkeley St in Glasgow this morning. Lots of PnD spaces line both sides of the street. If I was to park there, and display a ticket, and a fresh fall of snow obscures my ticket, could I be ticketed?
I've complied with the rules, after all.
Edited by theterranaut on 23/12/2009 at 09:50
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Fine - re yellow lines. I think if you are driving along an unfamiliar road with a 60 limit and it is changed to 50, by a sign rendered unreadable by snow all over it or obscured by untrimmed greenery, you would have valid defence. I am sure there is case law on this. Obviously a 30 would be enforcable, if it was recognisable as such by the spacing of the street lights, even if the 30 was invisible, for whatever reason.
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Because the indications marking or signs are covered by snow, does not mean they are suspended.
You may get away with speeding if the signs are not visible due to maintenance issues (trees, mould, dirt, fallen over etc) but not if they are covered in snow.
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A number of drivers who left their cars overnight on a pub car park in Winchester came back the following day to find them clamped.
Clampers said something to the effect of ' It's selfish, they could have left the cars somewhere else ' £150 each please...kerchinnng !....No letoff !
A post, some rope, firelighters and a burning torch spring to mind !
Mr and Mrs Timid and their son Timothy were out in force today. A road, dead straight, dry as a burnt clamper and we all had to mimse along at 15mph, presumably 'cos there was snow in the park adjacent ....got home with bubbles coming out of the tp of my head !
Ted
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My reply to thisa very question elsewhere:
There is an obligation at law for parking restrictions and the like as a prohibition to be signed in accordance with those laws. That is why there are DYL etc on the roads to indicate the prohibition. Further there is an obligation to maintain.
Now what happens when snow obliterates those lines?. Technically the law on signage has been breached because the lines are not visible. But what about the accompanying upright signs or the upright signs at the entrance to a Controlled Zone. Irrespective of the fact that if these are clean of snow there is a requirement they accompany the lines so the law is still breached as the lines cannot be seen. Remember also the law on obstruction does not require signs.
How the Councils deal with this in snow circumstances is not clear despite the fact that there is a duty on them to keep the roads clear. Some accept and not issue tickets, some do. I would gather that recepients of these tickets have been successful in argueing the point and had then cancelled. A recent article in one of the papers printed irrefutable details that ticketing has now become a main stay in the finances of a Council that it would seem CEO's are encouraged to issue tickets willy nilly.
dvd
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What happens if you park on double yellow lines which are covered in snow and the snow then melts? (you could have had to abandon the car and not come back for days).
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If I found my car clamped in circumstances like that, I'd nip off to the local hardware shop and come back with a big hammer and chisel for padlock removal purposes.
I drive a Transit a lot of the time now anyway, wheels are huge so I doubt they can even be clamped but if so I would probably try a bit of gentle rocking in order to break the clamp.
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My one and only parking ticket in 36 years of driving was for this very thing. Back in 1978 I parked my car on the road outside a pub because the carpark was covered in snow and sloping making it impassable and there was 2" of snow on the road, the back wheels of my car, I found out later, were 6" over the end of a set of double yellows and a police officer had actuall cleared away the snow with his boot and given me a ticket. The double yellows were to prevent parking near a juction and extended 25 yards or so down the road from the junction, so effectively I was 18", including the overhang at the rear of the car, too close the the junction.
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Keith
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slight tangent direction if you will. recently in my part of town ( city centre) a couple of local streets near me ,the double yellow lines have degraded to basically nothing and the plating on the restrictions are removed...is it neglect by the authorities ? i asked a traffic warden , he told me i could park 24/7 on the doubles and single yellow lines because they are not displaying a "plate"...dont trust them tho....any thoughts please
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You're OK if no plate.....they must show you the hours. I asked a warden here because a nearby junction has doubles round each corner for 25 yds or so. This was to stop parents picking up kids from a private school on one corner. School now gone, lines still there but no signs. he said there was nothing to enforce.
My grandson's school, this year, has zigzags and a total parking ban during school opening and chucking out hours. It's never patrolled and who parks on it, narrowing the road ?
Parents, of course !
Ted
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But beware the CPZ signs.
These can control a masive area.
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The law is very clear and specific with regard to yellow lines, both single and double, it is as follows. The lines must be continuous and unbroken from start bar to finish bar, if they are not they have no standing in law. I have twice appealed with success where the road had been repaired and a new patch of tarmac had "broken" the continuous run of a yellow line. I always carry a camera in the car and my appeal, with a photograh of the new patch of tarmac which broke the run of the lines was upheld
SNIPQUOTE - two pet hates of mine. 1. People who quote everything, despite being asked not to. 2. People who quote the text after writing their post.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 24/12/2009 at 19:07
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Thats in a perfect world svu but.......
Courts in the past and also Parking Adjudicators have thrown out appeals on signs and lines not being 100% signed as per TSGD applying the 'de minimus 'rule in that a minor deviation from what required does not invalididate the restriction.
Each and every case on its merit.
dvd
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In Edinburgh, the parking wardens have x-ray vision and can see through snow, ice, even black spray paint, so will do you for incorrect parking as ruthlessly as ever.
Often wondered what it would be like if you duffed up a parking warden and made a snowman out of him........ Where would you put the carrot?
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I will buy you a bag of carrots grumpyscot.
I trudged to the end of my street yesterday, found my car and cleared a gap on my windscreen where my parking permit is displayed.
My snow covered Edinburgh street had it's
usual blitz at 5.10 pm yesterday.
The usual scenario is one patrolling either side of the street and one staying on his little scooter. No scooter in sight yesterday so every cloud... due to snow
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If your wheels are not on the lines, ie legally parked, can you be ticketed if you car overhangs into the no parking area?
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Some authorities round here will ticket you if your towball overhangs.
Manchester lest blue badge holders park free on street pay and display, the old meter bays, but I always check now that I'm well in the lines, side and both ends.
Ted
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I see Thames Valley are "prepared to review" charges for some drivers who abandoned cars in the snow.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8429026.stm
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Shame the enforcers couldn't accept that the weather was awful, that the gritting and plowing services were lamentable and leave evrybody alone instead of issuing tickets and spend time and money investigating and perhaps cancelling them
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the best one that had me was i parked on a single yellow line (parking bay) plated stating one hour parking, no return within two hours
but not realising i had entered a no parking zone because city were playing at home
upon investigation i had passed into the zone but i hadnt read the signiage because i had no intention of parking originally, there were no signs on the parking bay warning of the no parking when the footy is playing at home. the parking zone sign was about 300 yards from where i was parked.....if you stopped to read every road sign in places you would be done for holding up the traffic, there was an article on the telly ages ago about exessive road signeage
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That just re-reinforces my view that "footy" is a lamentable waste of time,effort & money!
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i agree malteser, its not like the stadium was anywhere near where i had parked, the new venue is a good half mile away
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Reply 2 AS 241209 0942Zulu
Yes and unfortunately they do. Like Ghurka's they don't take prisoners.
dvd
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I have some sympathy when markings are obscured, but re "overhangs", surely it isn't too difficult for people to check that they have parked correctly before they leave the car, or move it a few yards down the road if they can't fit...
We criticise people for rubbish driving, but surely bad parking is just as bad, and its not that difficult... I must admit that if I've not got SWMBO and wheelchair on board I'm quite happy to park further away and walk a few hundred yards rather than try and squeeze into some impossible space...
Its about time that people found out what their legs and feet were primarily designed for... and its not for pushing pedals in a car!! ;-)
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