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At the time of writing (approx 11.30pm) the temperature here on Merseyside is below 26 * Fahrenheit so I imagine that it will plummet even lower as the night progresses. If I have to drive tomorrow morning at, say, 7.30am (something that I dearly hope will not be necessary) how much allowance will I have to make bearing in mind that my theoretical journey will involve me being on a motorway within a mile of me setting off. The engine will obviously be very cold. Am I likely to do any damage to it by setting off immediately after starting, as recommended, and getting up to 70mph within, say, 2 minutes of moving off. My instinct is to cruise along for a couple of miles before gradually accelerating to cruising speed. Does that approach qualify me as a 'mimser'- bearing in mind that there will almost certainly be very little traffic on my route at that time on a Saturday morning - or just a careful and considerate car owner?
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This subject will have some opposing views...meself i let the car tick over nicely until the engine's giving heat to the interior before moving off...say 5 minutes, mind you i still treat the vehicle gently to give the gearbox etc a chance to warm up.
Just got back in, judging by the unbelievable mimsing displayed tonight you'll be lucky to get to 70.
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Haven't the faintest clue whether this does any good or not but no matter what the weather I never use more than 2000 rpm until the engine is up to normal operating temperature. Having said that, I have been lucky enough to to get quite high trouble free mileages from most of my cars, so maybe it helps a bit.
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2000rpm I always have to exceed that when I first start the car its the only way to get a small 16v engine to shift. I always just leave the engine running for 5 minutes in the winter but in normal weather I don't bother, I know I should but heck its a ten year old car with 83k on the clock its not a brand new Roller.
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I'm sure Humph has it right. No need to sit around warming up before you move away - just take it easy until the engine reaches normal operating temperature. No doubt that policy does indeed contribute to reliability and long engine life.
We ourselves don't like violent exercise when we get out of bed in the morning - nor do machines!
Just a (vaguely relevant) thought. The Skoda started in half a second this (very cold) morning. So would my eight-year-old BMW have done if I'd asked it to. So, back in 1969, would my first car, a 14-year-old Austin Cambridge. So why does it take up to 5 minutes for my computer (a newish Dell with Windows XP and AOL), sitting in a warm room, to get online from first startup?
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I was taught to start the car with the clutch in, engage, let the engine run a for a few seconds before moving off. I let it run a few seconds more in winter.
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I was taught to ......... switch on ignition, pull out choke, turn starting handle until the engine fired. Honestly.
;-)
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An engine doesn't have to deal with millions and millions of processes which is what a computer has to do. Personal computers are very very complicated things but because the user interface is so simple you don't see what is actually going on behind the scenes. That is why computer take to long to boot up. A lot of data has to be read from a mechanical disk and copied into the random access memory, the processor has to deal with what data to copy and in what order. As solid state technology becomes cheaper computers will boot up more quickly.
You cannot computer a computer to an engine because they are just completely different, its like asking why do toilet seats have no IQ?
However it shouldn't take minutes to boot, my desktop takes around 40 seconds and my Linux laptop around 50 (because its a much more basic spec). If it does really take 5 minutes something is very wrong.
My car car takes a couple of seconds to turn over on a cold morning, I suspect the battery is probably not the best. Since my dad got a new battery his 13 year old car starts in half a second. It hadn't been run for a few days so I started it this morning and before I could even hear it turn over the engine was running it was just instant. Not bad considering its the original coil pack, HT leads and starter motor. Only the battery and plugs have been replaced.
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I suspect most of us have a mechanically sympathetic starting regime which requires little or no modification for colder weather.
The OP asked about hitting motorway speeds within a mile or two.
Probably no harm in that, 70mph is nothing for the cars most of us drive.
I would compromise and bowl along at 60/65mph for a minute or two before hitting the legal limit.
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"The Skoda started in half a second this (very cold) morning. So would my eight-year-old BMW have done if I'd asked it to. So, back in 1969, would my first car, a 14-year-old Austin Cambridge"
I see from that list you never had a ford in the 60s or 70s ;)
>Just a (vaguely relevant) thought.
Avant, seriously, that wasnt even remotely close to being vaguely relevant, was that a "too much mulled wine" thought?
Edited by Altea Ego on 19/12/2009 at 10:02
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.......... Am I likely to do any damage to it by setting off immediately after starting as recommended ....
Most wear occurs in the first few moments after an engine has been started, before the oil has circulated properly. Follow the manufacturer's recommendations and drive off immediately, but stick to moderate acceleration for a couple of miles. Incidentally, not everyone realises that the oil takes considerably longer to reach a normal running temperature than the coolant.
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My last Focus wouldn't warm-up at tickover, so unless I wanted to sit parked, revving the nuts off it, it made sense to get moving straight away.
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If at all possible turn the heater to cold and start up and drive off it will warm up the engine faster by not taking the heat out saying that you may freeze to death and the windscreen is covered in condensation.
Drive off on motorway get in 5-6th as soon as keep speed to 70 till it's hot, the revs will be lower anyway.
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PU has it right IMHO.
Get in, start it up, let it idle for a few seconds then off you go. Within a mile your car will be sufficiently warm to drive it on the motorway at full legal speed.
Edited by Altea Ego on 19/12/2009 at 09:58
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>>Incidentally not everyone realises that the oil takes considerably longer to reach a normal running temperature >>than the coolant.
I'd certainly agree with that. On my old 205 I had an oil temp gauge as well as oil pressure and it took much much longer for the oil to warm up and the pressure to stabilise. I would never use too many revs until water and oil had warmed up.
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"I see from that list you never had a ford in the 60s or 70s ;)"
Indeed I didn't - and they were even worse in the 50s, when if a Ford didn't start quickly (and it usually didn't) the six-volt battery would give up the struggle. Ford didn't get it right until fuel injection arrived - and I seem to remember that Vauxhalls were little better. For all their failings, BMC / BL had the SU carburetter, which was splendidly untemperamental and made for first-time starting hot or cold.
(The wine wasn't mulled on this occasion AE, but it's a genuine gripe, to which Rattle provided a professional answer. But I still think Windows should get going much more quickly.)
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>>> Ford didn't get it right until fuel injection arrived <<<
You are so wrong comrade Avant - if a Ford or any vehicle is tuned and set up correctly, it will start 'on the button' under any conditions.
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Ford didn't get it right until fuel injection arrived - .......
I had four carburettored Escorts, variously manufactured 1976 to 1988, and had no trouble starting any of them. In fact they were brilliant starters. The only attention they got was servicing as per the manufacturer's schedule at franchised dealers.
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>>> Ford didn't get it right until fuel injection arrived <<<
in my time i have owned;
one 1.1 fiesta mk 1
two 1.1 escorts mk3's(ohv)
three sierras, (1 1.6 ohc, 1 1.8 cvh, 1 2.3diesel)
two mondeos (2.0)
all except the mondies were carbed, and never did they fail to start on the button, hot or cold.
I also worked for a couple of ford dealerships in the late 70's/80's and the only problems we really had was that darn VV carb... best used as a garage door stop, the fomoco and webers were no problems at all.
(none of mine had a VV!)
Edit.... the 2.3 sierra wasnt carbed of course......
Edited by the swiss tony on 19/12/2009 at 11:20
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Think our family had eight or nine Cortinas.
All started perfectly well.
Don't recall them breaking down very often, either.
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nay nay and thrice nay, it's only supercomputered cars built in the last 10 years that start and indeed complete a single journey unassisted, indeed in 10 years time we'll be told todays cars were completely unreliable, not as there'll be many running.
Remember well my side valve Popular (100E?), always had to bump start it cold, but once started it was fine for the rest of the day.
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10 years time we'll be told todays cars were completely unreliable not as there'll be many running.
LOL,
I dont need to wait 10 years, or be told that - I just look in our workshop!
must remember to order more turbo's, injectors, coil packs, ECU's, air mass sensors, crank position sensors etc, on monday!
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Just goes to show you that the internal combustion engine as we know it has had its day. Theres nothing particularly wrong with it, but its surrounded by increasingly more complex electronics to keep its emissions down, and therefore expensive when it does go wrong, meaning that cars cannot be kept going economically any more.
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turbo's injectors coil packs ECU's air mass sensors crank positionsensors etc on monday!
Particularly the air mass sensor, it seems from some make specific forums that people are changing these as often as we used to change spark plugs why so?
Must admit though common rail Diesels do in general (not in all cases though) start much quicker than old fashioned types, though often the old ones were badly neglected and usually only needed new glow plugs.
The exception to this seems to be modern HGV's which have to be turned over for up to 5 or more seconds before they'll fire whereas older especially Cummins/MAN and the like would fire instantly regardless of temp and without waiting for glow worms.
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I haven't seen a truck driver light a fire under his fuel tank for years, must be this warming global climate thing. Now that would put a H & S jobsworth into apoplexy!
I'm on a hosepipe ban at the moment, its frozen solid. :-)
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>>> which have to be turned over for up to 5 or more seconds before they'll fire <<<
I know I'm a funny ole git gordon - but I actually prefer that mate as it gets the ole Texas Tea around the metal bits :)
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I know I'm a funny ole git gordon - but I actually prefer that mate as it gets the ole Texas Tea around the metal bits :)
Trouble is on these very cold mornings you can hear the starter slowing up before the things catch, i prefer the old way which took very little out of the batteries...which incidentally are often flat after the Christmas break on modern stuff, some of our respected make trucks have had new batteries in their first year, mines nearly 4 and on originals so expecting a non start this winter.
Blimey Navy, you soon forget it wasn't that long ago when anti waxing additives were not added to Diesel fuel, it's only 30 years ago when i last had fuel waxing problems, lighting fires was often the only way to get going again, and some trucks didn't recirculate fuel so it wouldn't get warmed during the working day....again Cummins/Rolls Royce were very good for this, one other particular make very poor.
Can you still buy anti waxing additives for Diesel fuel, i haven't seen (or needed thankfully) any for years.
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>>> Trouble is on these very cold mornings you can hear the starter slowing up before the things catch <<<
Disconcerting to say the least, but as long as it starts at least 100% of the time matey.
Has anyone ere ever tried a 24v start? I don't mean a 24v battery but when I was out in weather (like this) trying to get a car started that was covered in snow and had been dead for goodness knows how long, I would disconnect the earth lead and put a jumper cable from my heavy duty RV type battery + to the cars battery - terminal, and put my other jump lead to the engine block ... that would spin the critter over 'and some'
Before anyone asks - I never experienced any component damage by this Horace Batchelor method, I would only use it as a last resort and, I was fully insured through my company Hometune.
P.S. I would never do this on any car with sensitive electronic components!!
Edited by Webmaster on 22/12/2009 at 01:12
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I dont need to wait 10 years or be told that - I just look in our workshop!
The last car i had break down on me (at two years old and 36k on the clock) had no ecu, no turbo, no coil pack, MAF, or sensor of any kind. The distributor fell to bits and left me stranded on the A3.
None of the modern cars have done that.
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I think in picking up AE's point above I was a little unfair to 1970s Fords, certainly later 1970s. I remember that there was one type of carburetter where there was a drill that worked very well - one pump on the accelerator....pull out choke....fire up without touching the accelerator again. It was earlier ones that gave the grief.
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Avant....My computer has been taking over five minutes to get online also until a couple of weeks ago.
I read good reports on Microsoft SecurityEssentials free anti-virus and spyware.
Removed AVG anti-virus and Ad-Aware and installed the above.
Computer now boots up in around one minute. It had to be the removed programmes which were the cause of the problem.
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