05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
Four years ago we bought a 2005 Ford C-Max 1.6 TDCI Auto Ghia, demo car. It's
been carefully driven, regularly serviced and has done 46,000 miles. Last
weekend it showed an amber "transmission malfunction" warning light,
followed by minor variations to revs at constant speed on a flat road.
Our local dealer told us that the car is not safe to drive and the only
remedy is a replacement transmission and torque converter at a cost of over
4,000 pounds. He referred us to Ford Customer Service to see if they could offer
any better alternatives. We're awaiting their feedback.

Before this we had a 1.8 manual C-Max with no problems at all. We
part-exchanged it for the diesel automatic after eighteen months (from the same Ford dealer, at considerable cost) only because my wife had a frozen left shoulder and we needed a car with automatic transmission and electronic handbrake.

We use the car for driving a disabled elderly relative, so the high seats and easy access of the C-Max are very important.

Are there any reliable, lower-cost alternatives to a replacement
transmission? If we went for the replacement transmission, how can we rely
on it lasting more than 46,000 miles? What should we reasonably expect from
Ford Customer Service or our local dealer? Can anyone suggest a similar
alternative car with automatic transmission and electronic handbrake?
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - WorkshopTech
Hmm, a Ford TDCI auto is really a bit of a timebomb on several fronts.
My guess is that Ford won't cough up anything.

Let me knowroughly where you live and I might be able to recommend an auto trans specialist who can repair it.
You also might want to consider small claims action against the selling dealer (Sale of goods, not durable enough). Too many of these cars fail at low mileage and Ford get away with it.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
Many thanks. We're between Worcester and Oxford in the North Cotswolds.

Our Ford dealer called the trans. repair specialists used by Ford dealers in this area on our behalf. He was told they couldn't help because they would not be able to get spare parts. They recently found out about this when someone brought in a similar case in a car bought at auction with the transmission warning bulb removed. Apparently this particular transmission was used by Ford only for a short period.

Presumably Ford must know this transmission has a problem.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Englishbullterrier
Many thanks. We're between Worcester and Oxford in the North Cotswolds. Our Ford dealer called the trans. repair specialists used by Ford dealers in this area on our behalf. He was told they couldn't help because they would not be able to get spare parts. They recently found out about this when someone brought in a similar case in a car bought at auction with the transmission warning bulb removed. Apparently this particular transmission was used by Ford only for a short period. Presumably Ford must know this transmission has a problem.

Surely the UK's "Sale Of Goods Act 1979" applies here. I think it states that spare parts MUST be made available for repairs/servicing for 8 years after production has halted ?

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - nottsruss
we had an auto 1.6 tdci and the pug turbo engine with auto box is a time bomb , our car would cut out at speed for no reason , Ford dealer came up with over 100 pages on diagnostic and couldnt find fault , dealers wont touch them with barge poles...we now have VW touran.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - WorkshopTech
Unfortunately these cars are one of the worst things ever produced by Ford. The manuals give a load of trouble (EGR, MAF, injectors) but the autos are the worst. I dont think Ford know how to fix them and I think your dealer may be telling the truth. I have seen these floating around in the trade with busted gearboxes and no one will touch them.
You could try p/x ing it or trying to persuade your dealer to give you something for it?

An independent who may be able to help is - Derek King near Leicester (0116 2863896) but lack of spares will probably be the killer. Worth giving him a call though, if anyone is likely to know what can be done with it then he will.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
Thanks again for your help. I don't know much about cars and feel out of my depth on this problem. I've got a voicemail message to call Ford Customer Service so I'll see what they have to say before calling Mr. King.

Sorry to trouble you again, but as regards p/x do you know of anything similar and more reliable? The C-Max Ghia Auto seemed just right to us as my wife has difficulty operating a manual gear lever and hand brake (trouble in left shoulder) and my aged mother has arthritis everywhere and needs the easy access/high front passenger seat. Our Ford dealer has already told us there is nothing new in the C-Max range with auto trans and finger-controlled hand-brake. From what you've told me I don't think I'd touch a second-hand C-Max with a barge pole.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - WorkshopTech
Really Ford ought to help, this car is a known 'black sheep'.

Off the top of my head I cant think of a suitable car, but if you specifically want a reliable auto then Id be looking to Japan, but I cant right now think of one with high seating position and electronic handbrake.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - TurboD
This is pathetic. In the USA all cars are auto and DO not pack up at 46K, I know that.
The rubbish the English get fobbed off with is incredible.
The best autos are made in the USA, but then the US cars are not that great.
So you have to go to Japan to get the bet ones.
Any Toyota will be better than a Ford- as the USA folk are finding. But Toyotas are made in Kentucky now - so they are American!
Sorry tale, I am sad for you- spread teh word wide so that Ford uffer for their carp cars
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - WorkshopTech
This is pathetic. In the USA all cars are auto and DO not pack up
at 46K I know that.
The rubbish the English get fobbed off with is incredible.
The best autos are made in the USA but then the US cars are not
that great.
So you have to go to Japan to get the bet ones.
Any Toyota will be better than a Ford- as the USA folk are finding. But
Toyotas are made in Kentucky now - so they are American!


No offence mate, but had to chuckle at this.
Recent US ford autos were incredibly bad. In fact so bad that Ford gave up making transmissions and sold all their interests to ZF (a German company!).
Chrysler also gave up a long time ago and started using Mitsubishi transmissions.
GM also not too clever, so they buy loads of transmissions from AisinWarner (Japanese). So in fact the yanks hardly design any autos at all now. Its basically the germans and the japs that design the autos.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - gordonbennet
You will struggle to find electric handbrake with a proper auto boxed and reliable MPV, could be worth looking at Kia Carens, proper torque converter auto which means in normal use your wife will only use the handbrake when leaving the car, the box should have enough creep to cope with anything except the very steepest of hills.

Slightly bigger, but in my opinion one of the nicest MPV's ever discontinued before it's time the Toyota Avensis Verso if you can find one...again proper handbrake.

Petrol versions of Xsara Picasso had a nice auto box too...not sure about reliability.

The more threads i read of the troublesome oddball auto boxes some makers install the more convinced (if possible) i am of avoiding at all costs.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - gordonbennet
Added..just had a read up on HJ's CbyC above...2006 on Carens has foot operated parking brake, thousands of MB owners (including me) will tell you that is just perfect with auto.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - kithmo
Who uses the handbrake anyway with an auto, I very rarely do. Put it in "P" it's not going anywhere.
.
Keith

Edited by kith on 20/12/2009 at 14:13

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - injection doc
RJP, I'm sorry to hear of your dilema, I agree it puts you off cars. general rule of thumb is small autos below 2.0ltr can be more problamatic. Its just a genralisation. Also some bigger engine autos will be more responsive & just as frugal because they don't work so hard.

I too have a frozen shoulder so I can sympathise for what would seem to trivial can be quite debilitating. I drive auto & the car has a handbrake but never use it, Park is just fine & appears to hold it anywhere. If Im on a very steep hill then I just twist around & use my right arm when I'm getting out & just release it as I'm getting in.
Beware of some small autos that no longer have a park! ( easytronic) vauxhall, most diabolic autobox, horrid to drive & if you park on a hill you have to remeber to switch the engine off whilst still in drive! otherwise the car relies on just the handbrake! as my father found out when his almost new Meriva rolled down his drive & demolish the pillar in the centre of his double garage & took 2 doors with it & needed a new rear end. Hnadbrake was on but had cooled down & contracted!
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
Thanks to all for the feedback so far.

The response this morning from Ford Customer Services was as some of you predicted. They claim the transmission is so complicated that the cost to repair would exceed the cost of a new transmission. I asked if they could tell me the price but they said the dealership sets prices. I asked if they had any record of similar problems with this particular model. The person I was talking to claimed not to be personally aware of any. Apparently, according to notes on the file, there was "no indication of any particular problem with the batch".

She also told me, when failing to answer my questions, that Ford Customer Services are "not technically trained". As if I should not expect anything more.

Better news - thanks to WorkshopTech - Simon King (0116 2863896) told me that 70% of the parts in this transmission, including the torque converter, can be obtained and in most cases repairs are both possible and worthwhile. He was more helpful in five minutes than Ford has been in five days. The car's still with my local Ford dealers. I'm waiting for them to call me back to sort out the next steps.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - WorkshopTech
Hi

Simon is Derek's son. Derek has been in the auto trans business for 30+ years and they are one of the very few companies that I would trust to do a lasting rebuild on this transmission. People 'in the know' travel from all over the country to have him rebuilt transmissions. He not only know what he's doing, hes also competitive on price.

If you cannot get the whole car to them then I would suggest getting an independent repair shop to remove the transmission and then have it shipped on a pallet up to Derek and rebuilt. It will probably cost you £100+ in freight charges, but better that than a rebuild attempt by someone that doesn't know what they are doing.
I you can somehow get the whole car to him then that would be even better (check out some local car transportation operators).
Get it out of the Ford workshop ASAP, even if they find someone to rebuild it they will add on a hefty mark up
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
The dealer's line was "it's not that we can't repair it, but the repair we would do is a replacement of the entire transmission".

He agreed that Simon had given me a very fair quote to have the car collected (140 + VAT from Chipping Campden to Leicester) and said it would probably be best for us to deal direct with Simon. I'd rather do that and leave everything in his hands than have different workshops involved. Fingers now crossed as to what Simon can do and at what cost.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - WorkshopTech
Yes, £140 is not a bad price for that. Palleting your old transmission there and back would probably cost that.
Definitely best to deal direct. Hopefully the transmission will be repairable, but bear in mind that these transmissions were not very durable from new, so this will probably not be a car you want to hang on to for a long time.

The suggestion of a Kia is a good one. As far as I know they use all Mitsubishi auto transmissions and they do tend to be very reliable.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - bell boy
these transmissions were not very durable from new, so this will probably not be a car you want to hang on to for a long time
>>
>>>>>> how many times have i told customers their cars are unexploded bombs that need disposing off but then you see them still tootling round in them oblivious to your warnings......
lets hope rjp heeds your excellant advice WT
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
Good point BB, well taken.

One thing that strikes me is Ford's behaviour is undermining any ability I have, if (big "IF!" ) the car can be repaired by a specialist like Simon to a reasonable standard, to sell it for a fair market price. I may not know much about cars, but I've no intention of simply passing a "timebomb" on to someone else, just for Ford's convenience.

Ford has not even checked an oil sample to see if there's any sign of serious damage. (I discussed this with the local Ford dealer; he advised there would be no point if the only repair option was replacement). A Customer Services Department representative that admits to not being technically trained then tells me the cost to repair would be higher than the cost to replace. This approach presumably dominates the trade-in price for these cars to anyone that knows the score, compared to a manual version of similar original sales price.

If there is a gap in trade-in price arising from Ford's approach, if it's not totally justified by the genuine repair costs, and if Ford is benefitting as a result from owners stuck between a rock and a hard place, that sounds to me like unfair trading.

First things first. I need to see if Simon can put the car back in serviceable condition for a reasonable amount. If so (a) I want a lot of people to know (b) Ford may have some serious questions to answer. Watch this space in the New Year.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Bill Payer
I'm always completely baffled why standard Sale of Goods Act durability criteria doesn't seem to apply to cars. A washing machine, TV, etc should last 5-6 years yet car manufacturers seem to consider it perfectly acceptable for cars to need very, very expensive repairs when they're well within that time (and reasonable use) period.

Interesting that in the Corsa camshaft failure thread, Vauxhall UK promptly paid in full on 2005 car when an owner issued proceeding against them, and they don't strictly have any legal liability (that rests with the retailer of the car).
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
Agreed. That type of approach is what came to mind if I find that the car can't be repaired at a reasonable cost. Either way, it seems to me that Ford have some questions to answer.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - gordonbennet
Either way it seems to me that
Ford have some questions to answer.


I agree with you but it wont happen, people still go out and buy cars because they look pretty in the showroom and the salesman seems nice.

Then they shrug their shoulders and pay through the nose for repairs whilst turning their noses up at competitors more robust cars that don't have the correct badge.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
Derek King of The Mechanical Workshop told me today that the problem is with a speed sensor circuit, part of a Motronic unit that governs the transmission.

Derek cannot obtain this part because it is on what Ford call a "permanent back order". This appears to mean that even authorised spares providers cannot supply the unit on its own, because of their relationship with Ford.

Ford have quoted him GBP 4931.75 plus VAT (ie GBP 5794.80 to me) for supply of a replacement remanufactured transmission. Ford refused even to provide a price for a replacement Motronic unit alone. Derek told me that similar units for CVT transmissions for other makes cost roughly GBP 800 + VAT.

Derek understands that components are no longer available from the US makers of the transmission. The remanufactured transmission may be using components originally sourced from Eastern Europe. Derek cannot identify, let alone contact, the supplier of the replacement Motronic unit that would be used in the transmission offered by Ford.

Taken together with Derek's costs of collecting the vehicle, the cost of the Ford replacement transmission would be higher than the working-order value of the car as estimated by my local Ford dealer.

I have questions about whether the transmission is fit for purpose, and whether Ford is trading unfairly in restricting the supply of replacement Motronic units so as to profit from the sale of entire transmissions or low trade-in prices for vehicles such as mine. If I don't get a very much better offer from Ford in the next week or so I have every intention of taking these questions as far as I can. In the meantime, I would welcome any feedback on the following:

a) Has anyone else been put in the situation where the transmission fault was traced to a particular component and Ford restricted the supply of a replacement component, with the result that the entire transmission had to be replaced or the car traded in at a knock-down price?

b) Derek believes that there may be a legal obligation on car manufacturers to supply parts for a period of eight years. Can anyone confirm this and provide any details?

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - WorkshopTech
Parts supply can be a problem. I remember on the GM transmissions there used to be a solenoid that failed, GM wouldnt sell you just the solenoid, you had to buy the whole valve body at a cost of £700 (this is a few years ago).
I have heard about this '8 year parts supply rule' but I think it may be an urban myth, I think you would have to see if there is any EU legislation covering this, but I doubt it.
The situation with this Ford CVT is diabolical, and I know that there are other people in the same situation. There is one of these cars on offer in Coventry a very low price for the same reason. The car is clearly not fit for purpose.

My only suggestion at this point is to see if you can get your ECU (motronic unit) repaired, you could try BBA-Reman or ATP (in Hednesford) - Derek may already have tried these though.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
Thanks for the tip. I believe Derek has called around very widely on my behalf and is still trying.

My local Ford dealer told me this morning the only listed part he could obtain is the entire transmission. He referred me to Ford Customer Services.

Ford Customer Services told me just now that if a component is on the permanent back order list it means it is simply not available. Their initial advice was to go back to the dealer (who also sold me the car) and try to get a good deal on trade-in.

I pointed out that some components must be getting through and Ford must have some control over their distribution, or Ford would not be able to offer working replacement transmissions for 5900 quid when a speed sensor circuit goes wrong. I said I wasn't going to let this go. Customer Services said they'd ask around, see what they can do and get back to me.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - WorkshopTech
I think your transmission has the type number CFT23 and was made in Ohio, US, and fitted into C-maxs. These CVTs were a joint venture between ZF and Ford. I think it all went wrong a few years ago and they dont make them in the US any more. The same gearbox was fitted into the BMW mini and made by ZF in beligium I think. So might be worth giving ZF a ring. I think they have a UK base in Nottingham - see if you can get a part number off the ECU.
I would avoid CVTs in future, unless made in japan they dont seem to last long.

Edited by WorkshopTech on 14/01/2010 at 16:57

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
Thanks again. I'll pass this on to Derek. But for me it comes back to Ford. They must have some supply or they would not be able to offer remanufactured transmissions (I got the price wrong above - only about 5,790 quid to me....). They must see that this is an outrageous price to pay to fix the type of failure Derek has described - especially when the components are externally sourced.

Given the history of premature failure of these transmissions, even if Ford doesn't want to be in the business of fixing them under a Ford label, they ought to be actively helping good quality independent specialists like Derek to provide reasonably priced repairs.

This would be better customer service. It would also make far better business sense for Ford than restricting supply so they can force their customers to choose between an unroadworthy vehicle, a full replacement transmission or making complaints and legal claims.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - David Horn
I would suggest filing in the small claims court regardless. Even if it goes pear-shaped you're not really going to lose anything besides the application fee, and if you have a sympathetic judge who appreciates the situation Ford have placed you in (for crying out loud the car is only 4 years old) you might be surprised.

What have you got to lose?
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - WorkshopTech
I would support the above comments.
I think its about time UK car owners started getting a little more militant and adopting court action, as they do in the US.
In my business we are seeing increasing numbers of relatively young (not long out of warranty) cars with low-to-moderate mileages that are having very expensive failures. This includes ABS/ESP units, power steering systems, transmissions, DMF/clutch, CR fuel systems and electronically actuated turbos. Often repairs are £1000+ and the fault is not usually wear and tear, seems to be failure possibly due to poor design. Seems that some car makers are designing/making cars to last duration of the warranty rather than a respectable service life as expected by the customer.

Edited by WorkshopTech on 15/01/2010 at 12:22

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
Thank you both very much for this good advice. I'll certainly bear it in mind. Even if the car can be fixed this time I don't want to go through this again - or pass the same problem on to any other unsuspecting buyer.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - cheddar
rjp,

Ford Customwer Services are likely to offer goodwill though not if the car has been attended to by an independent, leave the car with the dealer and write to Ford.


>>Hmm, a Ford TDCI auto is really a bit of a timebomb on several fronts.
My guess is that Ford won't cough up anything.>>

Another anti Ford comment from WT, and tosh, this engine is Peugeot/Ford and is used in loads of cars including Fords, Mazdas, Volvos, Minis, Citroens, Peugeots, are they all timebombs, no - as I say tosh!
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - WorkshopTech
>>Hmm a Ford TDCI auto is really a bit of a timebomb on several fronts.
My guess is that Ford won't cough up anything.>>
Another anti Ford comment from WT and tosh this engine is Peugeot/Ford and is used
in loads of cars including Fords Mazdas Volvos Minis Citroens Peugeots are they all timebombs
no - as I say tosh!


I am getting a bit tired of your continual commentary on my posts. I am not anti-ford. There are plenty of worse cars than fords (anything french comes to mine). I am not saying that they are unreliable as a make (they are about average). they are a low-cost mass-produced car and they go wrong and wear out - they are average in the market. I am not saying they are less reliabel than VAG cars (although I think they are less durable). I would maintain that the model under discussion in this thread is a TIMEBOMB - if anyone reading this has one that still drives OK then sell it now and buy something else.
You seem completely obsessive about fords and particularly TDCI.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - cheddar
I am getting a bit tired of your continual knocking of Fords and pointing people in the direction of, sometimes inferior, alternative cars.

Your technical input is very helpful though it perhaps should also be impartial, no problem with a comments like, "I have seen a few Mondeos with this problem" though comments like "Fords have dodgy electrics", are unnecessary.

I have had great service from Ford vehicles and Ford so will defend them, you mention French, our soon to be replaced '98 Clio has also been superb in direct comparson to local Polos and Yaris's.

You seem completely obsessive about VAG products, Skoda's in partcular, in which regard I am shortly going to post a question about Audi TTs in "Discussion", any comments you have will be welcome.

Edited by cheddar on 16/01/2010 at 16:43

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - joshua
I am with WT on this one.

His comments are made from his wealth of knowledge gained from being in the trade.

Looking at various other forums his comments are no different to those made by countless others.

A mate of mine has had no end of trouble with his Ford TDCI, so there you are, another one to add to the list of Ford issues.

Keep up the good work WT and do not be put off by comments from some.

Regards
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
More on the C-Max.... The problem with this particular model seems to cut across any gap between dealers and independents.

My local Ford dealer had agreed it would be a good idea to have the car looked at by an independent specialist before I had it collected by Derek's firm. The dealer had in fact already called a local independent on my behalf before putting me on to Ford Customer Services, because the only component available for the CVT transmission in his Ford parts list was the entire transmission.

My first contact at Ford Customer Services called me back last Friday afternoon to find out if I knew the part number or precise description of the failed part. I didn't. She agreed that the best idea would be for me to put Derek directly in touch with her and said she would try to work with him to find the best solution.

I've done so and am waiting to hear what Ford proposes.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
WT wrote:

>In my business we are seeing increasing numbers of relatively young (not long out of >warranty) cars with low-to-moderate mileages that are having very expensive failures. >This includes ABS/ESP units, power steering systems, transmissions, DMF/clutch, CR >fuel systems and electronically actuated turbos. Often repairs are £1000+ and the >fault is not usually wear and tear, seems to be failure possibly due to poor design.

In this case I understand the problem could just be a speed sensor. Derek has a fair idea of where he could get one, but the issue seems to be whether Ford will allow its supplier to provide the faulty electrical component rather than an entire remanufactured transmission.

At the moment we are still hoping for a sensible response from Ford, If not, I see there's a body called ADF which seems to be running a campaign on the "Right to Repair". See www.adf.org.uk/campaigns/right_to_repair.php. Does anyone know anything about this? Could it be useful in my case or with the wider problem identified by WT?
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - WorkshopTech
Hi

I am very familiar with Right to Repair and was involved from the ground floor with this a couple of years ago.
There are three major issues..

1. Technical inforamtion (manufacturers either withholding it or charging independent stupid amount of money for access to it).
2. Availilability of parts - as with your auto trans, manufacuterers not making individual parts available and only wanting to sell complete units.
3. Coding of parts - making components that have to be coded to the car, and coding can only be done by a dealer, sometimes with a link to the factory.

There are companies that can repair/rebuild car electrical and mechanical systems but usually the manufacturer withholds information and parts. A good example is the G20 sensor failure on ESP/DSC units - companies like BBA-Reman could repair these relatively cheaply if they could obtain replacement sensors, but they cannot get hold of them and so the customer has to buy a new unit at £1000.
There are lots of expensive systems failures and nearly always its down to some small components which is a marginal design.

To have to replace an entire £5000 transmission for want of a speed sensor is dsigraceful. I hope you eventually source the part.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - need4speedgirl

Hi,

could someone give an email to Derek? We are automatic specialist in Poland and have also some problem with CFT 23!

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - WorkshopTech
I am getting a bit tired of your continual knocking of Fords and pointing people
in the direction of sometimes inferior alternative cars.


SQ

I have only just spotted this posted and I'm pretty amazed by it. I have only ever posted information based on direct experience.
I am certainly not obsessive about VAG cars, very far from it. They have some major shortcomings and are no more reliable than average, as I've said before. The recent and ongoing fiasco with ESP units on Golf platform cars is a good example, and a disgrace to the company. Ditto the failures that are now happening to the steering column units on the 06-on Passats, a £1000 job that only dealers can do.
However the VAG cars do have good points, such as probably the most reliable diesel engines, relatively durable and probably the easiest and most comprehensive diagnostics of any car, so that when they do present with a fault we can usually diagnose and fix quickly.
The comments regarding Ford are based on experience. Many recent Fords are suffering maladies with electrics, this is due to the poor quality of wiring looms on recent Mondeo, C-Max, etc, particularly water ingress. Lot of throttle body problems on certain engine variants. I'm an MoT tester and see more rust on certain Ford models at five years than many other brands.
This is not the result of bias, I have owned a number of Ford cars, including a Focus ST.
If you don't believe any of the above then check out some of the trade forums on the internet and you see much discussion about these issues.
I also stand by my comments about the C-Max with 1.6TDCI and CVT transmission. It really is one of the worst cars made during the last decade from any manufacturer. The 1.6TDCI engine is a horrible unit and suffers a high rate of turbo failure due to poor lubrication system design, and that CVT is like a handgrenade with the pin out - definitely will go bang at some point. There are a lot of this model floating around in the trade at scrap prices because no one can fix them.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 24/01/2010 at 17:16

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp
Brief update - after various discussions with Ford and their probable supplier of remanufactured transmissions I received a price from Ford Customer Services for a replacement speed sensor of 90.57 including VAT. Ford won't actually guarantee that they can supply one and say it might not be available until April if they can get it, but at least this justifies Derek checking the transmission to see if anything else needs fixing.

I asked Ford Customer Services whether this meant they would be able to work with Derek on the same basis if, for example, the motronic unit or any other components needed replacement. They agreed to work directly with Derek on this, without giving any specific commitment as to availability of individual components.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Six weeks on and no progress. Ford offered to supply Derek with either the sensor alone or a full remanufactured transmission but was not prepared to supply just the sensor and the motronic unit. Without the motronic unit Derek can't be sure that the problem lies with the sensor or the unit, so can't proceed with the repair. Derek identified ATP Hednesford as the supplier of the remanufactured transmissions to Ford. ATP told Derek it was prepared to supply him a remanufactured transmission (strictly trade only - ATP won't deal direct with the consumer) for £3160 plus VAT (about two thirds the price quoted by Ford) but was also not prepared to supply the motronic unit only.

I tried Motor Codes UK and was advised they could not help me. They interpreted my issue as with the selling dealership regarding the quality of the vehicle (being unfit for purpose). They suggested I seek independent legal advice with a view to action against the dealer.

As previously discussed, what annoys me is not just the quality of the vehicle but what I believe may constitute restrictive trade practices, abuse of dominant position and after-market profiteering, effectively preventing me from having the car fixed and Derek from being able to fix it at a reasonable price. I have received some useful support and help from the IAAF and we are also considering a submission to the Office of Fair Trading unless the situation is resolved very soon.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - need4speedgirl

Hi,

could someone give an email to Derek? We are automatic specialist in Poland and have also some problem with CFT 23!

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Berisford

Hi,

could someone give an email to Derek? We are automatic specialist in Poland and have also some problem with CFT 23!

http://www.fedauto.co.uk/no17.htm

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Good to see that HJ has now made clear there is a serious problem with this model in his car by car review:

“BY 2010, FAILURES OF CVTs WITH 1.6TDCIS HAD REACHED EPIDEMIC PROPORTIONS and the cost of replacement at around £5,000 is greater than the value of the car. For that reason DO NOT BUY A C-MAX 1,6TDCI CVT AUTO.”

I'm still struggling to persuade either our Ford Dealer or Ford Customer Services that it's in their own interest to do the decent thing. Otherwise it's the small claims court for me and a referral to the OFT with the support of IAAF's right to repair campaigners.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - ChrisBarr

Does anyone have any idea what percentage of 05 1.6 Autos have failed?

(i.e. how many were sold in the UK, and how many of these have had their CVT fail)?

I've owned mine from new, and it's just had it's 5 year service, at 34,000 miles.

I could trade it in now (and the eventual buyer would have bought a potential time-bomb) - or I could carry on using it for several years, perhaps, until it dies - then sc*** it.

Difficult decision - it's a nice car, trouble-free so far. It might carry on for quite a while yet!

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - ChrisBarr

(see previous post from me)

I meant to add that I've just had an on-line quote from "WeBuyAnyCar.com" for £4,500.

If the failures were really epidemic, they wouldn't be offering to buy it - surely?

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - hatman

We Buy Any Car seem to put the vast majority of the cars they buy through Blackbushe BCA so as long as the car starts and drives through the auction hall it won't matter to them if the gearbox is shot.

It sounds as though a fair number of automatics with problems seem to end up at auction - either in the Sure Sell private sale section or in the main dealer part exchange lines.

While you can try to see if there is a jolt when selecting drive and reverse at auction, as far as I know, there is no fail safe way of checking if an auto box is knackered at auction so it seems a great way to get rid of a problematic car. I personally wouldn't buy any auto at auction unless its a BMW, Merc, Jag XJ or Lexus.

The big problem of buying at auction is that you cannot drive the car before buying and they are all sold as seen - so if the car you buy has literally £1000s of work needed you have to accept it. That is the nerve wracking part of buying at auction, you never know if it's going to pack up on the motorway 10mins after buying it.

C-maxes sound a nightmare on so many fronts. I bought one at auction last year and couldn't even drive it off site as it was so knackered but thankfully a new EGR valve cured all the problems so I didn't lose any money on it. Personally, I wouldn't spend a penny on a problematic car. I'd rather enter it in a BCA Sure Sell auction and put the proceeds towards a more reliable automatic.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Over six months on. Ford has told us it can't provide replacement parts. We're still waiting for what we understand will be a "solution" proposed by the Dealer with support from Ford.

In the meantime we need fairly urgently to get a replacement for the C-Max. Our requirements, which we passed on to the Ford Dealer over two weeks ago, are ease of access for elderly passengers, ability to accommodate three or four plus a wheelchair in the back. automatic (preferably as straightforward and reliable as possible) and an electric handbrake (particularly if the transmission is DSG or similar). We'd prefer new or new-ish and supported by warranty. It will do at most 10 -15k a year and if it falls over after three and a bit years we'd expect to be able to get it fixed at reasonable cost.

We're looking at some of the models suggested above. We've also seen good reports on this site for the Peugeot 3008 and the new Vauxhall Minerva. But in both these cases it would be another small diesel auto and we've seen some dire warnings about these. We assume it's too early to get any grasp on possible reliability for the Vauxhall.

All ideas and suggestions would be very welcome.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Sorry all - I meant Meriva, not Minerva. I'm afraid they all sound the same to me.....

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Sorry all - I meant Meriva, not Minerva. I'm afraid they all sound the same to me.....

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - AndyMac51282

RJP, just had exactly the same happen to me. Just wondered how you were getting non with your challenge to Ford as I'd happily join you - they have been nothing but complete T**TS. They will not accept the issue at all. There is so much history about this gear box and it's failing and despite a pile of research by me and my mates before I purchased the car nothing came to light from any of the motoring pages etc.

I have written to Watchdog, motoring press etc etc to try and get them to take it on an expose this issue - no replies yet.

Perhaps you could get in touch? email: andrew@clanmccarthy.co.uk

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - tomcox

I have a 1.6 TDCI with CFT23 gearbox. At 49,000 in March of this year I started to have problems. I returned to Dealer twice due to a lack of power, not going any faster than 50mph. they found nothing. Three days later on pulling out of a junction the engine stalled, luckily it was not a major road. I tried several times starting it but whenever I engaged a gear it stalled.I called AA and walked home, only a mile, as they couldn't tell me when assistance would arrive and half hours later would pick me up from house on their way. Two and a half hours later, they had said they were very busy, I was back at car. It started and run perfect. AA followed me to house but obviously couldn,t find fault.

Next morning I called Dealer to take the car in, it seemed to be running perfect. On the two mile journey I stopped at shops about half a mile from dealer. When I came back out the car was hesitant about moving, like a slipping clutch on a manual. Eventually I managed to get it to dealer and left it. Three days later I got a call to say the gearbox was faulty and the only option they could offer was a recon from Ford as the company that they used to do gearbox repairs would not touch it due to the unavailability of parts, Ford has agreements with its suppliers not to supply these to repairers.

I spent hours looking for a second hand one or someone who could repair it to no avail. It cost £4,000 with a £500 allowance. It was on back order and didn,t come for two weeks then it took two weeks for the dealer to fit. Neither the Dealer nor Ford would offer any assistance because it was out of warranty. The warranty on recon box is one year or about 10,000mls!!! It is now with trading standards but am not holding out much hope after reading experiences on this site, the c-max owners site and the ford owners site.

I believe that there is a serious design fault with this box and also the fact that it is a 'sealed'unit which does not require servicing until 75,000mls. I agree that it is time that Ford were made to acknowledge this disaster of a gearbox. I am not happy with this recon box, it is hesitant and eratic when picking away and not consistant in operation. Taking it back shortly when I won't be needing it for a few days.

If anyone wants to contact me my e-mail is thomas-cox@hotmail.co.uk

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Andy, Tom,

Thank you very much for getting in touch. I've replied with further details of where I stand with Ford Customer Services and our Ford Dealer and what I propose to do if I don't receive a satisfactory solution.

If anyone else has suffered from C-Max TDCI CVT transmission problems and been unable to obtain reasonable service from Ford or their dealer, please contact me initially via posting to this thread.

Regards,

Reg

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Latest in my case is that Ford has offered a 25% discount on the cost of a replacement transmission, but only if fitted by a Ford dealer. No mention of warranty and no commitment to repurchase/px the car. Apparently this offer will not be increased.

I asked our Ford dealer to let me know by July 27 whether it would be prepared to buy back the car and if so for how much, either in its current state or after a repair on the terms offered by Ford. As yet no reply so I've sent a chaser today setting a final deadline for August 5th before I take further action.

In the meantime Andrew, Thomas and I are comparing notes and working together to pursue our cases against Ford and our dealers, seeking legal advice and considering action in the courts, local and national media.

It's very important to know how many TDCI CVT owners have already suffered premature breakdown, either in this country or other parts of the EU.

If anyone reading this thread has had a TDCI CVT failure below Ford's specified first service interval of 75,000 miles for this unit and would like to join us or can provide useful information, please add to this thread or contact me at reg.pritchard@toplinesystems.co.uk.

Reg.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - wildwoman
Hi ya

I have just had my 4 year old Ford Focus CMax Ghia 2.0L Auto Transmission go wrong too.

The guy who is at the moment repairing it said "Yeah 4 year old Focus 50000 miles about right, get them all the time" , they are rubbish.

Am about to write to Fords to ask for them to help pay, what do you suggest, am happy to help and support you in any way I can, think Ford should cough up and take responsibility for the c*** they are producing,

I'm disabled lady, I cannot drive another car so I'm stuck until the costly repair is finished !

Regards

Santragirls 2005
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

I think this is a different transmission. Without knowing further details about the reason for its failure, I'm not sure what to suggest, but if there's any way we can help each other I'd be happy to do so.

Regards,

Reg

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Bertbloggs

Hi Guys,

Another mug I am afraid. Sept 05 Registered. 44620 miles. Serviced from new and supplied by local Main dealer. Last service at 37500 miles was the 50000 mile service and I had asked them to do the 60000 mile service whilst looking at the gearbox problem. Quote is £4500 + VAT for new Gearbox plus £750 + VAT for Labour.

Like many such owners vehicle is essential because of disabled Mother in law whilst we need the automatic because of wife's arthritis.

Have written to Chief Executive of Ford with copy to local dealer Managing Director without the common courtesy of even an acknowledgement so far although it is early days.

Happy to join in with whatever action you are proposing. I think someone mentioned Trading Standards Office? Please advise me of Reference NUmber/office reported to.

Regards.

EMail: dick@roots130.fsnet.co.uk

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Hi - sorry to hear of your family's predicament.

I've sent some more detailed notes by email of where we are so far. I think Thomas will have the Trading Standards details.

Please advise what your dealer said was wrong with the transmission, what diagnostics or other investigation the dealer has actually carried out (mine did not even check the transmission fluid because he said there was no point as the transmission could not be repaired) and whether the "new gearbox" would be one of the remanufactured units from ATP.

I'd also be interested to know whether the dealer is offering any warranty on the new unit and whether Ford is still specifying a 75,000 miles service interval for it.

Regards,

Reg

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Pavillion
This is a message for Chris Barr.

I and others have been in contact with each other concerning the C-Max CVT gearbox. May I ask that you get in contact with me as I have some information which may be of use to you.

Pavillion
email: calleva2006@yahoo.co.uk
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - derby72

My daughter bought a 2005 Ford C-Max 1.6 TDCI Auto Ghia approx 5 months ago when her youngest baby was intensive care having been born 11 weeks early (he was there for 3 months). She also had a one year old at that time & had bought the car with all her savings to have a reliable spacious car for the two boys.

After two months the car broke down with transmission problems with her & the boys in it.

It has been at the Basingstoke dealership for 6 weeks now and she has been quoted £5000 to repair it - if the part can be found. To say this is inconvenient is an understatement as the youngest often has to go to hospital and public transport is very difficult with such young children.

Being a single parent there is no way she can afford repairs and as this seems to be a known fault Ford should do more to help everyone in this situation.

So far Ford have not replied to a letter & email.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Avant

It's worth reminding you (as in RJP's post further up this thread) to look at the Review section of this site if you're thinking of buying a C-Max. HJ is very specific as to which models ands build dates to avoid.

RJP and others - good luck and do let us know how you get on. Legal advice is available from our resident expert if you need it: just post on the Legal section.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

None of us have yet had any reasonable offer from Ford or from our dealers. The owner of my local dealer advertises his business with the line "Buy with confidence from a family business dedicated to looking after your needs". He and his staff have refused even to acknowledge the last two letters I have written to him.

I hope the Ford managers and dealers that refuse to touch these cars with a barge-pole, the online buyers that put them through auctions and all those in the know that tell owners to pass them on quickly before they break down realise that ultimately it's people like Derby72's daughter that get left in the lurch.

LucyBC is already in touch with us and being very helpful. Several of us are determined, either individually or collectively to establish clearly and publicly, in a court of law setting a legal precedent, that this car and transmission - and the remanufactured replacement transmissions that Ford is still offering - are not of satisfactory quality.

Anyone reading this thread will see we have spent eight months trying to get a sensible and reasonable solution. Derby72's daughter deserves a more urgent response. My message to Ford is - don't wait for us to come to you through the courts. Do the decent thing now!

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - tomcox

Hi all, I have just sent of a reply to the threatened legal action against my protest. I will keep you updated. Could maybe be good if this matter was brought into open court. There is an article highlighting the problems of Andrew regarding this gearbox in the latest edition of Auto Express issue 1130 page 39. Also the secretive actions of manufacturers on page 34. I will be writing to them of my experiences.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Armitage Shanks {p}

There is a firm called MCT REMAN who handle repairs to ECUs and other such electrical "Boxes". They could be worth a call.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Just had feedback from MCT REMAN. Unfortunately they can't help with this transmission.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Bertbloggs

Please see my earlier post.

I am pleased to report that in my case my own local main dealer Haynes of Maidstone have acted to preserve their own first class local reputation.

They have offered £4k part exchange for the vehicle (it's sc*** value is probably about £200 at best) against a new car. We have chosen a new Automatic Fusion which is on special offer (yes we know it's being discontinued) at circa £2500 below list price so we are very satisfied with the agreement at the end of the day.

Haynes also said that they would have honoured my demand that they repair the car but couldn't get any replacement transmission so it was just not possible. However if they had repaired it they would have insisted that I make a contribution to the cost in respect of wear and tear which wouldn't have been unreasonable.

Never did get a reply from Andy Barratt .

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Dutchie

What a sorry saga,to all those people with these problems with a auto gearbox from Ford.What would the reaction have been if this happens in the states or does it?The last auto box i drove before the Honda Jazz a VW Jetta lasted twelve years.Ford should do the decent thing and replace these auto boxes without charge.Unless they have lost interest in customer care be carefull Ford, people will vote with their pockett and move on.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - tomcox

In May 2005 I purchased a 2004 Ford Focus C-Max 1.6TDCI CFT23auto transmission from Ford Direct through my local dealer Peoples. It had 14,000mls on the clock. I expected its service history to be up to Ford’s requirements. I had it serviced, maintained and repaired by them to what I expected to be to Fords specifications’ and requirements.

To severely cut a long my long story short. In mid February of this year I experienced several unexplainable losses of power. In late February the car suffered severe loss off power on the M8, the speed dropping suddenly from 70 to 50mph. No warning lights came on. I got the car home a distance of a few miles. The next morning it started and run perfectly. However I took it to the dealer explained the problem and left it for them to run a diagnostic check on the car. No fault showed up. A few days later it stalled coming out of a junction, automatics should not stall. I eventually had to push the car to the roadside. I called my daughter who came along and confirmed that there was a serious problem. I called the AA. Due to the time it was going to take them to come I was told to get a taxi home and they would pick me up on their way. About 2 hrs later I was picked up and back to the car. It started and run perfectly. The AA man followed me home and agreed with me that no fault was apparent.

I called the dealer next morning, explained what had happened and was asked to take it down to them if possible; they are only about 3 miles away. On the way there I experienced drive faults. On a manual gearbox I would have diagnosed a slipping clutch. At this point the warning lights for engine management and transmission came on. I got it to the dealer and the workshop foreman took it for a very short test drive and agreed that there seemed to be a fault, only the engine management light was on by now. I left the car. I received a call three days later to inform me that there was a fault with the gearbox and that I would need a new one.

I was astounded. I had never had a problem with an automatic box in all my 30 years of owning them, most of them doing in excess of 100,00mls and 2 of them in excess of 150,000mls.

This box had only done 49,000mls. I went down to the dealer where it was confirmed that diagnostics had come up with a faulty gearbox code and that they could not repair it nor could the specialist gearbox repairer (Mackie Automatic Transmissions of Glasgow) which the dealer used on occasion.

The new gearbox would cost between £4,000 and £5,000 and that they were on back order with no date given when it would be available. They suggested that I try and source one on the internet.

I spent hours over 2 weeks trawling the internet searching for one to no avail. I phoned Mackie’s myself only to be informed that they already had one in but could not repair it due to Ford not allowing parts to be made available to specialist repairers so it would be pointless to take mine. On a visit to the dealer the salesman who sold me the car told me to go to the Engine Shed in Glasgow (a sc*** yard) and offered me £800 pounds in part exchange. From being offered £4,800 part exchange in January from another manufacturer to sc*** in 2 months!! The dealer phoned Ford CRC to ask about financial assistance. The reply was that no financial assistance would be forthcoming due to the age of the vehicle despite its comparatively low mileage.

I felt I had no option but to give the go ahead and order a reconditioned gearbox. While waiting for it to be delivered I managed to find time to further research this gearbox as I had only previously looking for a second hand one. I discovered that I was far from alone in this matter. Owners had been having problems since December 2009. On the honestjohn website and c-max owners site I discovered that there were big problems with this box. At my behest a director of the dealer contacted me by phone and said he would intercede with Ford on my behalf with Andy Barrat. This was followed up by a letter from him confirming that Ford would not be forthcoming with any financial assistance.

I the second half of March the dealer phoned to say that the gearbox had been delivered and that it should be fitted in 2 or 3 days. It did in fact take 2 weeks. They suggested that I should take it back after around 1,000miles for a check over. I was not happy with the operation of the gearbox and when I took it back I gave them a list of what I considered to be faulty operation. They said they could find no fault and a technician suggested that I might drive it a little more aggressively.

During the time since I have been in contact with trading standards who suggested claiming the cost from the dealer giving the reason that the gearbox was unfit for purpose. This was rejected. My local trading standards have contacted the Essex trading standards twice and been rejected twice.

I have written to Andy Barrat at Ford Brentwood twice. I have had no reply from this man. I have had 2 phone calls followed by 2 letters rejecting any claim for financial assistance from 2 different persons at CRC Coventry for various reasons, some of which I consider to be ludicrous.

I became so incensed at Fords reprehensible cover up and denial that this gearbox was faulty that I decided to hold a peaceful protest outside the dealer against Ford. I was told I was a “selfish sad old git” and told to “sling yer hook”. They called the police who told me I was within my rights as long as I did not create a disturbance. On the 4 th day I received a letter from the dealer and one from their London solicitors informing me that legal action would be taken against me unless I stopped immediately. I have written back clarifying the message on my placard which had been incorrectly reported by the dealer to their solicitors. I await their reply but intend to continue with this protest.

There are serious questions which Ford need to address and come clean on. Hundreds of thousands of pounds if not more were invested in R&D on this gearbox, hailing it the latest in technology.

It was not improved or upgraded but replaced with a totally different gearbox of supposed superior technology. What confidence can be put in that product given the abject failure of the CFT23?

Why was it removed from the spec of this car after a very short time and a comparative low numbers produced?

What is the maximum input torque capability of this gearbox?

What is the maximum output torque capability of the 1.6l Durotorq 110PS engine?

How many reached the apparent breakdown mileage of between 37,000 miles and 49,000miles within the three year warranty period and were repaired?

Why are parts not allowed to be supplied to highly professional gearbox repairers? Does Ford think that only they have the technicians to repair or find what goes wrong with it? Even dealers are not allowed to touch it.

From the e-mails I have received I believe that this gearbox is of poor design, poor manufacture, poor assembly, poor servicing regime or as has been suggested mismatched to the engine.

I believe that Fords tactic is to deny, deny, deny until this specification is off the market and to set a price that in most cases make it uneconomically viable. Some owners have been quoted £5,500 to replace it.

These cars are now going through auctions and garage forecourts to unsuspecting buyers thinking they are getting a comparatively low mileage car but are in fact buying what one owner described as a “timebomb” and not economically repairable. Owners of what is basically a family car, doing average mileage, are finding that it is out of warranty at a comparative low mileage.

Where do owners go to get compensation and justice against the financial power of Ford?

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - tomcox

In May 2005 I purchased a 2004 Ford Focus C-Max 1.6TDCI CFT23auto transmission from Ford Direct through my local dealer Peoples. It had 14,000mls on the clock. I expected its service history to be up to Ford’s requirements. I had it serviced, maintained and repaired by them to what I expected to be to Fords specifications’ and requirements.

In late Feb of this year I experienced transmission and loss of power problems and took the car to the ford dealer.

I left the car. I received a call three days later to inform me that there was a fault with the gearbox and that I would need a new one.

I was astounded. I had never had a problem with an automatic box in all my 30 years of owning them, most of them doing in excess of 100,00mls and 2 of them in excess of 150,000mls.

There are serious questions which Ford need to address and come clean on. Hundreds of thousands of pounds if not more were invested in R&D on this gearbox, hailing it the latest in technology.

It was not improved or upgraded but replaced with a totally different gearbox of supposed superior technology. What confidence can be put in that product given the abject failure of the CFT23?

Why was it removed from the spec of this car after a very short time and a comparative low numbers produced?

What is the maximum input torque capability of this gearbox?

What is the maximum output torque capability of the 1.6l Durotorq 110PS engine?

How many reached the apparent breakdown mileage of between 37,000 miles and 49,000miles within the three year warranty period and were repaired?

Why are parts not allowed to be supplied to highly professional gearbox repairers? Does Ford think that only they have the technicians to repair or find what goes wrong with it? Even dealers are not allowed to touch it.

From the e-mails I have received I believe that this gearbox is of poor design, poor manufacture, poor assembly, poor servicing regime or as has been suggested mismatched to the engine.

I believe that Fords tactic is to deny, deny, deny until this specification is off the market and to set a price that in most cases make it uneconomically viable. Some owners have been quoted £5,500 to replace it.

These cars are now going through auctions and garage forecourts to unsuspecting buyers thinking they are getting a comparatively low mileage car but are in fact buying what one owner described as a “timebomb” and not economically repairable. Owners of what is basically a family car, doing average mileage, are finding that it is out of warranty at a comparative low mileage.

Where do owners go to get compensation and justice against the financial power of Ford?

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Dutchie

I think the reason that Ford won't supply parts or let a Automatic Gearbox specialist work on the box is that they might find out what the real problem is.In situations like this a lot of Managers have sloping shoulders and don't want to rock the boat.A auto gearbox should last at least 100000 miles if maintained in my opinion.You was brave to do what you did maybe if more people with the same problems as your car did the same, things might happen.I am not a laywer but in these situations it looks to me like fraud.With other words they are selling something which is not fit for the purpose it was designed for.Maybe the future will be car layers who can help people with these problems it looks to me they are needed.!

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

A brief update.

Tomcox, after another demonstration outside his dealer, received a sympathetic hearing from his dealer's head office senior management, who then also arranged a settlement with Ford.

So at least two dealers have already had the common sense and decency to recognise that these cars should not be failing as they are. If we look harder, and/or if this goes to court, I suspect we'll find more.

My dealer still refuses even to acknowledge my emails and letters. Ford has acknowledged but not replied to a letter from Lucy BC. So it's time to bring this to a head.

According to DVLA, the number of these cars licensed as at 22 August 2010 is 243 plus 6 with SORN in force.

If anyone reading this posting knows anyone who may have owned one of these cars and has had any case of transmission failure (whether or not it has been fixed under warranty) or who has already had to write off a C-Max TDCI CVT because of transmission failure, please ask them to contact me at reg.pritchard@toplinesystems.co.uk .

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Since LucyBC and AutoLaw got involved a few weeks ago we’ve seen quite a few developments.

Letters to Ford’s Director of Communications and Public Affairs have emphasised that we want a sensible and fair settlement of the problems with this car, rather than legal action. Ford’s Director of Customer Services has also become personally involved.

Replies from Ford promised first an enquiry by an investigative technician and then an investigation by the Director of Customer Services.

Pavillion and I heard from our Ford dealers two weeks ago that the price for remanufactured transmissions was being slashed from over £4k to £1.6k. Pavillion was told that Ford will now also begin to make sub-components available. However, neither of these dealers was prepared to fit the remanufactured transmissions themselves or to take responsibility for them being of satisfactory quality.

A Ford lawyer subsequently sent me an email stating that Ford had “sourced” this dramatic price reduction. Given the control that Ford has over its supply chain for these units, the reduction raises massive questions for anyone that has already spent over £4k on a remanufactured replacement unit or has been forced to scrap a C-Max because of the repair price quoted by Ford. If anyone’s in this situation, please get in touch with us via this thread.

My own dealer and Ford’s lawyer have made clear I will be given a further discount if I agree to have a remanufactured transmission fitted by (some other, unspecified) Ford dealer. Neither Ford nor my dealer seems prepared to take responsibility for the car and any replacement transmission being of satisfactory quality. My dealer has so far ignored multiple requests to state whether he is prepared to buy back the car from me at any price, before or after the repair that Ford is prepared to discount. In the meantime, as Ford and my dealer know very well, my car has been off the road at Derek King’s workshop for over a year.

AutoLaw has instructions to start legal proceedings next week in my case if we do not receive a satisfactory response from my dealer to AutoLaw's "Letter before Action".

Derby72, AndyMac5182 and I have been directly in touch with Ford’s Customer Services Director about their cases and he has promised to investigate. The investigation has resulted in calls to Andy and me from someone who only later identified herself (to me, not to Andy) via email as a Ford lawyer. Apparently Andy was told he had no case against Ford because he bought his car privately and Ford is not directly involved.

We’re hoping some wiser counsel will prevail as and when issues of fitness for purpose, restraint of trade, predatory pricing and/or profiteering from the sale of remanufactured transmissions are considered and when someone at Ford realises that setting unidentified lawyers against vulnerable consumers is not good business.

In a nutshell, LucyBC and AutoLaw are being incredibly helpful. Together, we seem finally to be getting through to Ford, if not to my dealer. My claim is apparently strong and straightforward. If the small claims court decides in my favour it will not be a binding precedent but should help other claims. Ford is at least now looking into what it can do for other victims. We remain concerned Ford will resort to shovelling out cut-price unsatisfactory fixes for an unsatisfactory car to the independent trade. We hope to make more progress over the next few weeks.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

AutoLaw spoke yesterday to Ford Customer Service's in-house lawyer and to my local dealer. It looks as if Ford Customer Services will be leaving the dealer to take the heat rather than face up to the problems with this model. What this means for the Customer Services Director's investigation of Derby72 and AndyMac's cases is anyone's guess.

In Ford of Great Britain's Centenary Year, 100 years after the Ford Model T reached the top of Ben Nevis, Ford Customer Services seems to want to wash its hands of a cock-up involving a very small number of cars that should never have been put on sale.

AutoLaw will be filing on my behalf this afternoon.

As regards Ford GB's reputation in its centenary year, think of a broken down C-Max TDCI CVT on the top of Ben Nevis.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Pavillion
With the passage of time the story of the CFT23 is becoming clearer, and whilst I have written a longer article elsewhere about the gearbox, perhaps this is a good time and place for a summary.

1) The ZF design of the gearbox is essentially sound, we know this because some examples have achieved high mileages without problem. Unfortunately it would appear that Ford was not very good at making the gearbox when it took over from ZF. Ford had significant production problems at Batavia, with some parts and assembled transmissions being virtually hand made, this lead to slow and unreliable production, and a lottery in terms of the customer getting a good gearbox.
2) The CFT23 was wrong gearbox for the 1.6 diesel engine as it is now widely know that the torque handling of the gearbox was less than the engine can develop. Ford should have used the CFT30 in the C-Max which would have been a better match.
3) The service interval at 75,000 miles is wildly optimistic. I and another person have both changed the fluid (at 23,000 and 62,000 miles) and found the fluid to be expired. The specified service by Ford is a fluid only change; without a new filter this is plain wrong.

What should you do?
a) If you’re thinking of buying a C-Max 1.6 diesel automatic, don’t.
b) If you’ve got one and it is still working and you want to keep it, change the transmission fluid and filter as soon as possible. It is a DIY job, but a professional flush might be better.
c) If you’ve got one and don’t want to pay the cost of a fluid and filter change, sell it.

If you fall in to the “b” group above, it may still be that as a result of the service that you are advised or come to the opinion that the gearbox is likely to fail and should sell it, but at least you will be armed with some knowledge and a service of a few hundred pounds is still cheaper than a new gearbox. These are my personal opinions, but I’m confident that those who’ve been unlucky would agree.

Good luck,
Pavillion.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Derby72 has just passed me a letter from Ford Customer Services I find hard to believe. It seems her daughter’s Ford dealer had charged her £45 to tell her she would need a replacement gearbox for about £5k, then threatened to charge her storage charges while she took up the case with Ford. Her daughter removed the car and has not paid the bill. The dealer now claims the car was removed - to quote Ford Customer Services “without informing the Dealership, gaining permission to access the Dealership, or paying for the services provided by the Dealership”.

“In light of the above”, according to the Ford Customer Services executive assigned to investigate this case,

“we are unable to assist any further”.

Never mind that the car’s transmission failed at 47,000 miles, 28,000 miles before the first service interval specified by Ford. Never mind all the other failures Ford knows all about.

Some dealer. Some Customer Service.

Ford of Britain chairman, Joe Greenwell, recently said:

"Ford of Britain has been in the fabric of the nation for over a hundred years and no motor company has touched more lives in Britain.

Joe, is this what you mean by touching a life in Britain? In Ford UK’s centenary year, can’t you do better than this?

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - derby72

I have just set up a Facebook page under the catchy title "Ford Focus C-max 1.6 TDCI CVT premature gearbox failure". Can everyone visit and support it. You can post pictures of your C-max and make comments (keep them polite please!) or tell you C-max story.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - apmills

We have a CMAX 1.6 TDCi CVT Auto, which we bought in 2004. It was bought new from a main dealer here in France and has been serviced and repaired there. It has been no end of trouble and we have had a series of expensive repairs. We have had the engine hesitation at 1500 and 2000 rpm and black smoke problem, which has always been there to some extent and has just got progressively worse. They have had umpteen attempts to cure it but it always come back. The EGR valve had to be replaced. The central locking is temperamental - the boot opened itself periodically. The lever won't release from the Park position in the usual way and we have to manually release it with the aid of a screwdriver - I suspect this is the expensive solenoid problem, but we can't afford to have it fixed. The engine hesitation has now become really bad and when the engine has to 'work' past 2000rpm we often get a wild sudden increase in revs and the transmission malfunction warning. We have to stop the car and turn it off and on again. This happens frequently. The car has done around 120,000kms and has always been main dealer serviced.

We're taking it to the dealer next week as we can no longer afford to keep repairing it. We're looking for a part exchange to get anything back for it. I suspect however they will not offer us very much.

Obviously reading the other stories on Honest John this car just wasn't designed properly. We'll see what Ford have to say but they haven't been very sympathetic in the past. They told us once that it was an old car now (It's six years old!) and so the problems weren't unexpected. It is difficult for us to deal with the situation as although our French is reasonable we cannot understand all the technical language. Furthermore we no understanding of French consumer law and what processes might be available to us. So I doubt we'll get anywhere.

This car has been an unfortunate and hugely expensive mistake for us. Good luck in your battle, Ford really should admit their error with this model and compensate owners.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure. Ford C-Max 2005 - David Keen

I also have a trans mission failure at 43,000 miles. The car was first registered in December 2005 and purchased from Perrys in Aylesbury. They have quoted £2701.00 for the repair and are not prepared to offer any assistance.

I am a pensioner and this has left me in a very difficult position

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure. Ford C-Max 2005 - Falkirk Bairn

I also have a trans mission failure at 43,000 miles. The car was first registered in December 2005 and purchased from Perrys in Aylesbury. They have quoted £2701.00 for the repair and are not prepared to offer any assistance.

I am a pensioner and this has left me in a very difficult position

My son pays £20+ per month for mechanical warranty on his Lexus - I take the risk - you pays your money or takes your chance!

My 12 yr old Mazda has cost £730 in repairs in 11 years (excludes consumables, tyres, exhaust, brake pads etc)

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure. Ford C-Max 2005 - rjp

The key difference with these C-Max CVTs is that the transmission was not designed to cope with the output of the engine, Ford specified a 75,000 mile first service interval and provided no remedy other than replacement with a remanufactured transmission as and when the cars failed before reaching the first service interval. Until recently these remanufactured replacement units were priced so high as to make the car not worth repairing - effectively forcing the problem off the road.

Less than 250 few of these cars remain registered as on the road in the UK. Most dealers will not touch them except at deeply discounted prices. Ford's Customer Service Director agreed last January to investigate. He has not replied to multiple requests to let us know the outcome of his investigation.

All that most of us have seen since then has been attempts by a Ford lawyer to avoid responsibility by hiding behind demands for service history details etc. These cars have been failing at such low mileages that even with regular annual services the transmission would not have been inspected or serviced at any stage during the warranty period.

As far as we know settlements offered so far have been restricted to those that bought from a Ford dealer. These involve either involve trade-in for another Ford or leaving the owner with a fundamentally unreliable combination of engine and transmission and a potentially unsaleable vehicle.

Where the cars have been bought from a dealer we have a straightforward claim under the Sale of Goods Act. In my case, with the help of Lucy BC and AutoLaw, we have filed a claim and are awaiting court proceedings. Those that bought privately have so far been left in the lurch.

A group of us will be writing in the near future to the CEO and Chairman of Ford GB formally to request that in this centenary year Ford provides a better solution for the owners.

If any other C-Max CVT owners past or present wish to join us in this letter, please contact me at reg.pritchard@toplinesystems.co.uk.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure. Ford C-Max 2005 - derby72
Encourage everyone to join group letter as individual complaints seem to have no interest to Ford.

I have written to Customer Services for nearly a year now and they still want full service history although the first one for the gearbox is 75000 miles, so any others are irrelevant."to establish the vehicle has been serviced in line with our recommendations, using genuine Ford or approved parts, because we look at maintenance & loyalty when considering goodwill"

My daughter only had the car a few months before it died so never had any work done on it - how could she prove her loyalty??

Has everyone contacted VOSA?
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure. Ford C-Max 2005 - dansmart

My father in law and I own a Focus C-MAX 1.6 TDCI (56 reg) whose CVT failed at 45,000 miles in November last year. After the inevitable shock and disbelief, we decided to replace the transmission in the end at a cost of £2500 by Ford. However Ford were unforthcoming with paying for it despite the part clearly failing before its recommended service interval.

Our story was the 'Transmission Malfunction' light appeared last May, and then 0 revs. AA recovered us to Ford dealership in Swansea. Ford inspected for £75, said they just had to reset the computer, and sent us on our way. Later in the year it happened again, and this time the car was undriveable. Car was recovered by AA to Ford again, who informed us that the transmission had failed and would need to be completely replaced. Though they sympathised with our case, they said there was nothing that could be done. It has been regularly serviced, though not always by Ford.

We regret not pushing this more at the time, but it was such a shock that in the end we just went for it as we'd only bought the car 2nd hand a year and a half before (out of warranty of course).

It seems to me that if a part fails as early as this, and they are not one-offs, it is not fit for purpose, and as such Ford should reimburse owners for the extreme expenses incurred. Goodwill counts for nothing if it's not followed through with action.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - alanfp

I've had no problems with my CVT, but in my case the hesitation at 1800 rpm (and smoke) was cured by disconnecting the MAF sensor (between the air filter and the turbo - just disconnect the elctrical plug). Ideally, replace the MAF sensor with a new one, but I suspect that too will get contaminated with oil fron the breather pipe.

The engine mgt light will prob come on, but the car will drive OK.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Ford's comment to Derby72 about the need

"to establish the vehicle has been serviced in line with our recommendations, using genuine Ford or approved parts, because we look at maintenance & loyalty when considering goodwill"

is a complete red herring.

Ford specified (not just recommended) a 75,000 mile first service interval for this transmission and has continued to do so for years after the car was withdrawn from production, broken-down C-Max CVTs were turning up all around Europe and dealers in this country were refusing to buy them in at any price.

Ford's own failure to acknowledge and deal with this problem is directly responsible for owners being stuck with a low-mileage, second-hand, out of warranty C-Max with a broken down transmission. Where is Ford's loyalty to these owners?

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

See www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/ford/c-max-2003/?sec...s for the latest case of catastrophic transmission failure of a car bought from new from a Ford dealer. Is Ford going to wait until someone gets hurt before these unreliable vehicles are taken off our roads?

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - unthrottled

" My wife and children could have been killed" is a phrase oft uttered in relation to any catastrophic failure. It's sentimental nonsense that has no bearing on the merits of the case.

Ford appear to have behaved very poorly over the cVT affair but over-egging the pudding does not add credibility to the case.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - j01

I gather that the circumstances in which you experienced your gearbox fault probably differed from mine ... Almost exactly one hour earlier that day we were 'all' traveling in our car on a main road, at speed. From now on I will save my energies to focus on the following: (information that another C-Max owners has recently shared:

a) In the circumstances, it is Ford's direct responsibility to C-Max owners to ensure the vehicles they sell, and service are safe.

b) Ford has known about the weakness and failure of this transmission for many years and done nothing the prevent them.

c) Ford has set a first service level for this transmission which means most owners will not even have their transmissions inspected during the period of the manufacturer's warranty.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - sandipjoshi

Hello all, I currently have a ford focus c-max 1.6 TDCI CVT auto on a 54 plate. I bought the car 2 years ago from an independent dealer for my wife. Within the last 2 years there is a humming noise that has got worse and worse while driving. More recently we have been getting the Transmission Failure message from time to time. When this message comes on the revs seem to climb up and the only way to get rid of the message is to switch off the car and on again. I have been trawling this forum for some time now and it seems as if Ford are going to do absolutely nothing to help its customers, so it is down to us to sort it out ourselves. I have read that one suggestion is a transmission fluid flush and filter change. Has anybody else tried this and had any sort of success in terms of reducing the humming noise that seems to be coming out of the gearbox ... in fact ... does anyone else seem to be sufferiing from this humming noise or is it just complete gearbox failures? Any help and advice much appreciated.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Hi.

All I had the transmission failure message and the revs climbing slightly, but the service manager at my local Ford dealer told me the car was unsafe to drive, so please beware.

Don't give up hope on Ford. With the help and support of Lucy BC's firm AutoLaw we seem finally to be getting the attention of Ford's management. I should know more in a week or so's time, but if they don't do something soon my case and perhaps a number of others wll be going to court. We're also in touch with Watchdog and VOSA. If you wish to contact me on reg.pritchard@gmail.com with an email address I can give further details.

As regards diy solutions, the advice I had from Simon King, who is a trade specialist on automatic transmissions, was not to try them. A change of fluid and filter will not help if the transmission is structurally unsound. There's also the risk that if you try something yourself and the transmission fails catastrophically you may have less of a claim on the dealer that sold you the car and/or Ford.

Having said that, see the postings from Pavillion above. He knows enough to be able to change the transmission fluid and filter; he did it to his C-Max before any outward indication of failure. As far as I know his car hasn't yet failed, but unless you are in the trade I would strongly recommend you don't try to fix this yourself..

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

VOSA is now in contact with Ford about the problems with the C-Max CVT. Anyone who has had a transmission breakdown on the road without prior warning please contact us through this forum.

There's a separate issue regarding cars that have been showing the "transmission malfunction" warning with no other obvious change to how the vehicle is running. Ford guidance states that if this warning light appears, owners should contact their Ford dealer. Please let us know if this has happened to you and, if so, what the dealer said.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - apmills

This happened to us. We live in France. Our CMAX CVT was main dealer purchased in late 2004 and has been main dealer serviced. We experienced the engine hesitation problems and black smoke problems for years with many unsuccessful and expensive attempts to fix it. We also experienced other common faults associated with this model. In late 2010 following a service the hesitations became (even) worse - and they were always pretty bad - and would be followed by a massive increase in revs and high whining engine notes. The revs would suddenly jump from around 1800 to 3500 and any slight adjustment to the throttle either way would be accompanied by a wild swing in revs. Stopping the car and turning off and on again would return the car back to normal, but the transmission malfunction would recur five minutes further down the road. The car felt very fragile and I considered it dangerous to drive. We couldn't sell the car and the main dealer agreed to take it back only if we part exchanged it for a new vehicle. They said the car needed a new gearbox and reduced the trade in value accordingly. We did the trade-in for an unsuitable vehicle that we didn't want but the only one on their books that we could afford. It was the only way of salvaging any value from the car. We didn't have much choice but to accept this as we don't have the money to consider legal action and we don't understand the French legal process anyway. I have the paperwork with the car's history and all the repair bills. I cannot really deal with the issue in French but I will compile a dossier and send it to Ford Europe, although I don't expect to get anywhere with it.

Our only satisfaction is that knowing that we or our children will never buy another Ford. Plus a few friends have said that in sympathy they will never consider one either. I have just bought a 1991 Toyota Corolla automatic to replace the Cmax. Life of a Toyota 20 years so far, Ford died after 6 years. I've learnt my lesson.

Edited by apmills on 12/06/2011 at 12:31

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - malc007

Did the stupid thing bought a ford c max 1.6 diesel with CVT bot only had the car 2 months dash came up with a transmission malfunction. Took to my local garage they put it on the test rig and told me the output speed sensor was faulty paid them £250 to repair went to collect car & dash warning came on Transmission malfunction They told me they needed wireing diagram to rectify. Decided to take to Essex ford Southend. Booked the car in they told me would cost £80 for check they called back next day said needed more time cost another £80+ said ok but also said looked into this problem & was told ford would just quote new box. Receptionist did not think that would happen. Low and behold the next day get a call from garage Mr Woodhouse you need a new box! There was a wiring fault in the sealed unit & to expensive to repair.I told them I had made enquirers and that this outcome was what would happen. The service manager said all he could do was get in touch with ford technical department and get back to me. Oh OH what do I do now can't afford the £3200+ repair (car only cost £4000) is my car now scrap!!! Buy the way the car drives OK no probs just the dam Waring on the dash wish I could turn it off!!!

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Ask your Ford dealer to get in touch with the Ford Customer Services contact dealing with C-Max CVT failures. They should be able to set wheels in motion for a better offer. If they don't, contact me on reg.pritchard@gmail.com and I can suggest some other contacts.

By the way in my case AutoLaw appears to be making some progress with Ford's legal department, but if they don't settle as we've proposed I've made clear I prefer to go to court. I've instructed AutoLaw today to commission a technical report from a qualified IAEA assessor into the premature failures of C-MAX CVT transmissions. In the meantime the more new cases we know about, the more likely that Ford will agree to make fair settlements to the small band of us affected by this, so we can get on with our lives and Ford GB can get on with celebrating its centenary of service to the public.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - KazCook
I have been asked by rjp to post my c-max story as more evidence/support to this matter.

Ford C- Max TDCi automatic on 2004 plate purchased from private dealer, September 2010, mileage 24,731. Test drove a 2008 model and loved the driving position, perfect for my back problems and did not think twice when I found a slightly older one for half the price!

May 2011 stalled at traffic lights. restarted. put into D stalled. over and over again until battery flat. AA rescued. - 7 fault codes inc. transmission. Local Ford garage repaired MAF sensor. Mileage 30,303

June 2011 stalled in school car park. Put into D stalled, over and over again. AA towed back to Ford garage and spoke to them describing symptoms and wrote gearbox on his report.. Car returned 2 days later said nothing wrong could be found. Mileage 30,704

6 Jan 2012 Car started on a return journey put into R stalled. Every gear tried but stalled everytime. Back to Ford Garage. This time needs the transmission replaced cost £2800. Mileage 36,604.

Legal advice taken. Complaint sent to Garage under Sale of Goods and Services Act 1982 in that they had failed to diagnose the correct problem(s) and allowed me to carry on driving causing the complete failure of the gearbox.

My case and lack of car is still ongoing but after receiving a call from the complaints manager at the garage who amongst other things said he had been in contact with "FORD" who had advised him that they could not help as 1. No known problems with the transmission on this car. and 2. I was not the original owner and therefore not their customer, which was fair comment.........until I googled transmission repairs for my car and the top answer was this forum on the honestjohn website!

I am now part of this mess and wish I could think of a way of tracing all the affected C -MAX owners driving around in thier "grenades with the pin out" or completely out of pocket in the past.

Well done Reg for sticking to your principles on this matter, I will keep in touch with my own saga.
05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - KazCook
I have been asked by rjp to post my c-max story as more evidence/support to this matter. Ford C- Max TDCi automatic on 2004 plate purchased from private dealer, September 2010, mileage 24,731. Test drove a 2008 model and loved the driving position, perfect for my back problems and did not think twice when I found a slightly older one for half the price! May 2011 stalled at traffic lights. restarted. put into D stalled. over and over again until battery flat. AA rescued. - 7 fault codes inc. transmission. Local Ford garage repaired MAF sensor. Mileage 30,303 June 2011 stalled in school car park. Put into D stalled, over and over again. AA towed back to Ford garage and spoke to them describing symptoms and wrote gearbox on his report.. Car returned 2 days later said nothing wrong could be found. Mileage 30,704 6 Jan 2012 Car started on a return journey put into R stalled. Every gear tried but stalled everytime. Back to Ford Garage. This time needs the transmission replaced cost £2800. Mileage 36,604. Legal advice taken. Complaint sent to Garage under Sale of Goods and Services Act 1982 in that they had failed to diagnose the correct problem(s) and allowed me to carry on driving causing the complete failure of the gearbox. My case and lack of car is still ongoing but after receiving a call from the complaints manager at the garage who amongst other things said he had been in contact with "FORD" who had advised him that they could not help as 1. No known problems with the transmission on this car. and 2. I was not the original owner and therefore not their customer, which was fair comment.........until I googled transmission repairs for my car and the top answer was this forum on the honestjohn website! I am now part of this mess and wish I could think of a way of tracing all the affected C -MAX owners driving around in thier "grenades with the pin out" or completely out of pocket in the past. Well done Reg for sticking to your principles on this matter, I will keep in touch with my own saga.

Sorry I meant to ask if any other owners past/present have any updates on their own C-MAX CVT problems especially contact with FORD. Thanks. K.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Pambill

This happened to us on 28th July (2011) - approx 15 miles from home on a rare trip out. Hubby aged 83 was the passenger & recently has had 2 heart attacks so not in good health. Goes without saying that this hasn't helped! Car has done approx 45,500 miles. The transmission malfunction light/message came up without warning (i.e. no indications of any problems prior to this). Car registered 12/1/2006 & we bought it 2nd hand Jan 2009 from main dealer as an ex Motability car.

It's with Ford dealer who diagnosed the fault and it needs new gearbox/transmission. Ford Protect have authorised the repair. I'm very worried - I rang the dealer midday today for progress report - no part yet and couldn't answer when I asked when it's likely to be received..... just said they would check tomorrow.

07 1.6tdci Auto transmission failure - JPM

Another one. I am based in Ireland. No transmission malfunction light or codes, just a loud rattling noise coming from engine bay. This Car registered on 02/2007 and I bought in July 2009. Car has done 34,000 miles, its just ridiculous. Local Ford Dealer has quoted €4,000 euros to replace CVT gearbox and torque converter as well (no parts in stock of course and not known when will be available). This is for reconditioned gearbox. Ford Ireland customer service don't want to know, car is out of warranty....tough luck!!!.

Ford focus (NOT CMAX) 1.6tdci Auto transmission failure - nala77

Hi all,

I guess we are one more Ford victim. 8 months ago we bought an 1.6 tdci auto ford focus 2006 (NOT C-MAX however). Since then we are geting "transmission malfunction" indication whenever we slow down abruptly, for example at a section or when parking, the common yellow light for engine check switches on, the gear becomes stiff and the car does not roll normally. You have to switch it off in order to get fixed. We have the valvoline changed - it was all clear - the computer errors have to do with oil pressure, however a gear expert said it has nothing to do with the gear box itself and even if we change it we might still get the malfunction.

1) Does anyone know if the ford focus and the c-max have the same gearbox - i know its a ZF CVT, but not the actual number.

2) Does anyone of you actually fixed it? I mean in order even to sell it, i has to get fixed first.

3) Can we put a manual gearbox on it?

Thanx!

Ford focus (NOT CMAX) 1.6tdci Auto transmission failure - derby72

Has everyone gone to my FB page? Ford Focus C-max 1.6 TDCI Premature Gearbox Failure. Also comment on Ford UK FB page - the more we do this the more the word gets out & hopefully together we can get this mess sorted out so no- one else has to go through problems with this car.

C-Max CVT update - rjp

Since my last posting AutoLaw spent several months trying to persuade Ford to sort out this problem before we went to court, including raising the issue during meetings between senior Ford management and AutoLaw on other business. Apparently they could not find anyone ready and able to deal with what from Ford's perspective was an issue affecting a very small number of cars.

We decided last November that the only way to concentrate minds was to take my case to court. My claim and the various asociated expenses are now over the limit for small claims so we are aiming for "fast track" proceedings in the county court. AutoLaw has been advised that the cost of my legal representation in court will be covered by insurance, which apparently is a strong indication of the merits of our case. One of the advantages of this route from the perspective of any other C-Max CVT victim is that a decision of the county court in my favour would be a legally binding precedent.

Part of the evidence we would present to court would be two reports by the IAEA Assessor retained by AutoLaw (Darren Jordan). Darren's first report will be into the condition of my vehicle. His second will be into the history of premature failure of the C-Max CVT, taking account among other things of the material and experiences posted to this forum and others. AutoLaw sent my file to Darren in November. I expect to have his reports soon and I understand they will be my property to use whether or not my case reaches court.

Last week Ford advised AutoLaw that it was preparing an offer of settlement that it expected to be acceptable to me. I haven't yet seen this offer. I've made clear to AutoLaw that I want to see Darren's reports before accepting any settlement offer, that I would prefer to go to court unless Ford's offer met my claim in full and that I would not accept any settlement that restricted my ability to make Darren's report available for use by other C-Max CVT owners.

C-Max CVT update - rjp

Still no sign of common sense from Ford. M'learned friends working on it.

In the meantime I see no less than 10 of these cars (less than 250 still registered on-road in UK) for sale on eBay from trade sellers. One claims

"OUTSTANDING VALUE FOR MONEY for one of the hardest diesel automatic cars to find, great reliabilty record, with very low running costs for this size of vehicle".

The traders involved are easy enough to look up. Can anything be done about this?

C-Max CVT update - KazCook

Funnily enough I saw the exact same advert - but those of us involved are more likely to spot these things!

It would help if Watchdog etc had been more helpful when complained to in the past.

C-Max CVT update - Cab2

I have read your messages of 29th Jan & 9th March and am wondering if you have had any progress.

Our C-Max auto box failed last week, and this website has only just come to my attention, so I am interested if you are making any progress.

Cab2

C-Max CVT update - rjp

I have read your messages of 29th Jan & 9th March and am wondering if you have had any progress.

Our C-Max auto box failed last week, and this website has only just come to my attention, so I am interested if you are making any progress.

Cab2

Hi Cab2,

I heard from my lawyers two days ago that they have received an "acknowledgement of service" from Ford of a claim filed by my lawyers in the County Court. Apparently Ford now has 14 days to respond, which should give us an indication of whether they intend to fight this in the courts.

I'm not sure whether any response from Ford will address cases other than my own. As noted in previous postings I would rather get a binding court decision that the C-Max CVT was not fit for sale than accept a settlement of my case that allowed Ford to ignore other claims.

The numbers involved are so low that I would hope Ford will finally see sense and come up with a reasonable response to cases like yours. But this has been an awful long time coming and there could still be many a slip between cup and lip.

In case we do have to fight on through the courts I am very interested in collecting details of each new case of premature transmission failure. If you don't mind, please contact me at reg.pritchard@gmail.com with more background to your case.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - mimi55

I have a ford c max 1.6 tdci and first year we had it was fine then it started to stall and then was fine nothing came up on dash no warnings then last week it went all funny went all jerky when slowing down at a junction or lights still no warnings lights very hesitant and pulling all the time and stalling now we can use not use it at all changed the oil as the old oil was black and matalicy but still got problems i rely on this car for school runs and seeing family and i am now left with out a car and with the prices that i have seen with other people there is no way can afford the prices quoted it is sooo not fair foe people to buy these and find there are ford faults on them does any body know if it can be converted to a manual as im desperate to sort out and dont know where we stand we its an 07 plate bought from a private dealer with 60,000 miles on it does any body know if it is def the auto gear box torque converter that needs replacing as need to sell to get car for family as have nothing at the mo !!!!

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - KazCook

Hi

From what I know so far your 2007 model should not have the CVT23 automatic gearbox which has a premature failure rate if combined with a deisel engine.

However have seen a few complaints from later model owners recently so maybe the issues were still not resolved.

I would suggest you find out exactly what was fitted in your car and if it it is the CVT23 gearbox you join the rest of us in the ongoing dispute with FORD.

If not you will need to either establish the car was sold with a fault and make a complaint to the dealer who sold you the car (get help from the CAB) or get quotes to replace/repair - it should be cheaper than the CVT23.

One other thing I read recently is that modern deisels have an extra part fitted to comply with EU emission requirements - it means that if you don't take the car on regular long motor way journeys and burn off the particles it collects you will have problems - it seems no-one is bothering to tell owners!!!!!!

Regards.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - KazCook

Hi

From what I know so far your 2007 model should not have the CVT23 automatic gearbox which has a premature failure rate if combined with a deisel engine.

However have seen a few complaints from later model owners recently so maybe the issues were still not resolved.

I would suggest you find out exactly what was fitted in your car and if it it is the CVT23 gearbox you join the rest of us in the ongoing dispute with FORD.

If not you will need to either establish the car was sold with a fault and make a complaint to the dealer who sold you the car (get help from the CAB) or get quotes to replace/repair - it should be cheaper than the CVT23.

One other thing I read recently is that modern deisels have an extra part fitted to comply with EU emission requirements - it means that if you don't take the car on regular long motor way journeys and burn off the particles it collects you will have problems - it seems no-one is bothering to tell owners!!!!!!

Regards.

Sorry should be CVT gearbox part CFT23.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

For a very succinct summary of why these cars break, see the following extracts from

www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/ford/c-max-2003/?sec...d

"BY 2010, FAILURES OF Ford/ZF CF23 CVTs WITH 1.6TDCIS HAD REACHED EPIDEMIC PROPORTIONS and the cost of replacement at around £5,000 is greater than the value of the car. For that reason DO NOT BUY A C-MAX .,6TDCI CVT AUTO."

"On early (2004 build) 1.6TDCI CF23 CVTs the transmission and the ECU sometimes mismatch momentarily at around 1,600 - 2,000rpm. The reason is that the box is designed to handle a maximum of 230Nm torque, but the engine develops its maximum torque of 240Nm at 1,750rpm. The torque mismatch is the main reason for failure of the CF23 CVT."

Why Ford Customer Service continued to specify a 75,000 mile period before first inspection of these transmissions, long after the "epidemic" noted by HJ, is of course a separate question.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - derby72
I found this regarding BMW/MINI being taken to court regarding their version of the ZF CVT
www.motoringfile.com/2011/12/15/bmwmini-sued-over-.../
baronandbudd.com/protecting-whats-right/2011/12/mi.../

I also found this ZF document and on page 11 specifies that the fluid should be changed at 45k miles
www.lib.ucdavis.edu/dept/pse/resources/cvt04/paper...f

Here is some Mini CVT discussion regarding service intervals and on the inspection.doc file states that the fluid should be change at Service 1(30k-35k) and 2(45k-50k)
www.mini2.com/forum/maintenance-mini-care/113945-s...l

I also came across this on yahoo
autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repairqa/transmission/que...l
07 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Cab2

I have an 07 C-Max and have just had the gearbox reconditioned by A1 Premier Transmissions at Biggleswade for £2117 inc VAT, collection and delivery. Their website is www. a1pt.net. This company was recommended by our local Ford main agent, T. C Harrison

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Marieke

Hello,

I'm from Belgium, and one year ago (03/2011) I bought a ford C-max 1.6 automatic.

The c-max is from 2006. The car is only 6 year old and has a problem with the automatic gear box. One month ago it made a very strange noise so my car dealer said he should fix the gear box. So he took the gear box out of the car and send it to another company that should fix it.
But that other company has now problems with finding spare parts for the broken part. If they call to ford, ford sais they do not sell new spare parts for that gear box. The only thing we can do is buy a new gear box. But a new gear box will cost allmost the same as my car cost a year ago.


It's clear that Ford is really in fault by not delivering spare parts for a car from only 6 year old.

I'm looking for other people with the same problem in Belgium. Maybe if we put our complaints together we can arrange something with Ford Belgium.

People from Belgium with the same problem please email to:

"marieke.samyn ad gmail.com"

Regards

Marieke

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Your experience, other postings to this thread and correspondence I've received from cases in France, Greece, Ireland and Spain serve as a reminder that Ford's response to the C-Max CVT problems raises far wider and potentially more serious issues.

As I understand it, Ford Customer Service in EU countries is organised largely along national lines, so in the absence of collusion there is no reason why a response from Ford GB would automatically apply also in other EU countries.

However, in various countries we have seen:

1) First service intervals for the CVT transmission set at unusually high mileage levels, beyond the limits likely to be covered by most drivers during the warranty period, and not reduced despite evidence that inspections at much lower levels would provide early warning of problems that should be fixed under warranty.

2) Restrictions on the availability of components - such as sensors and EMU units, that would enable independent specialists either to carry out repair or identify other, more fundamental problems with the transmission.

3) An insistence that the only available repair is replacement of the entire transmission by a remanufactured transmission - often set at a price that is worth more than the value of the vehicle. In my case in the UK, the price quoted for this solution by a Ford lawyer was slashed from over GBP 4k to GBP 1.6k in January 2011 as the result of new "sourcing", but this mysterious new lower cost source does not appear to have made much difference to prices quoted by Ford in other countires.

4) No written assurance or warranty that the remanufactured transmissions on offer have overcome the fundamental design and manufacturing issues identified by HJ and others long ago.

5) A reluctance or (in my case) outright failure on the part of Ford or Ford dealers to set any cash price on a C-Max CVT (before or after fitting of a remanufactured trsnsmission) , or to buy back a C-Max CVT outside a part-exchange deal.

I'm not sure how my lawsuit will affect your position in Belgium, but I would suggest that you and others in EU countries (including the UK!) check the response that you and/or your repairers are getting from Ford on the above five points.

If you have access to legal advice/action in Brussels on the issue of whether Ford's response across the EU to the C-Max CVT problems may breach laws against unfair trading practices and abuse of consumer rights, I would strongly recommend you pursue this line of enquiry.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Serious Scot

I seem to be joining this forum as my 55-plate Focus Estate is showing TRANSMISSION MALFUNCTION and remains very stationary.

It seems to be stuck in PARK and was fine until now.

Unusually for this forum my Focus has done around 104,000 miles and has been trouble-free.

A search found JT Automatics in Kent offering a refit for £2,700 or so but as I'm in Inverness I really need help in Scotland - and ideally near Inverness, around 500 miles from Kent.

As you'll all know £2,700 is more than the car is worth so I may have to scrap it.

Ideas?

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - aitch

I read an article in HJs section of the Telegraph the other week about the automatic transmission not being able to cope with the torque generated, so I posted a question to HJ about it today.

I then found this thread which makes me even more concerned !!

I have a C-Max TDCi, owned from new from 2004, and have driven over 76,000 miles without experiencing any of the problems described here. However, what should I now do?

Sell the car as is? Get the fluid and filter changed asap? Do both?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

H

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

To be fair, 76k trouble-free miles and 8 years is not bad for one of these.

I suggest you ask your dealer or anyone in the trade what they will give you for it. That should give you a good idea of what you or any other owner can expect in future.

If you then put the car up for private sale you will probably find an unsuspecting buyer ready to pay more, but you won't know how much of a time-bomb you are passing on.

One other thought. If you're having it serviced regularly according to Ford's guidance, the transmission should have been inspected after 6 years or 75,000 miles, so you might be able to find out from your service garage whether there is any sign of trouble with the transmission.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - MrMef

I have the same problem with transmission errors from time to time on my 1.6 TDCi Focus '06 CVT. Previously when the problem occured the car didn't want to start. Today it also slipped and revs went wild plus a P0730 - Incorrect Gear Ratio error.

Any idea what alternative gearbox will fit this car?

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - alanfp

Do we know which bit actually fails? Is it an electronic component or a mechanical component? We are saying that the torque handling capability is too low, but how many drivers of these cars ever put their foot to the floor to achieve that max output (and 240 Nm compared to 230 Nm would be well within the safety margin I would have thought).

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - alanfp

We are also saying that the trade won't touch these cars - that was not my experience last year when I needed to sell mine. I hawked it around my local used car dealers - admittedly 2 said they wouldn't touch it because it was a CVT, but I had two offers (and there's always webuyanycar.com). The 2nd offer was spot on Glass's guide for a p/x which was actually £100 more than for a manual version. I worked on the assumption that the trade experts who prepare Glass's guide had factored in the potential problems/warranty claims. The Glass's guide price was slightly higher than Parker's.

My advice is if yours hasn't gone wrong yet, get rid of it ASAP. Then take your cash to any dealer you like and get a different car.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - madf

Do we know which bit actually fails? Is it an electronic component or a mechanical component? We are saying that the torque handling capability is too low, but how many drivers of these cars ever put their foot to the floor to achieve that max output (and 240 Nm compared to 230 Nm would be well within the safety margin I would have thought).

If it's a diesel maximum torque is around 2,000rpm. So start from rest and accelerate hard.. should give maximum torque.

I would imagine that would be a fairly common occurrence in urban areas.

Or acclerate hard at 60mph to overtake... that should give maximum torque.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

According to my brochure, maximum torque for this engine is 245Nm at 1750rpm.

From memory, even under normal/gentle acceleration from zero to about 55mph on rolling roads, I used to see up to about 1900rpm several times.

I couldn't imagine driving the car in normal conditions and not spending a lot of time around 1750rpm.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - unthrottled

You're forgetting that it's a turbo engine.

If you start from below 1500 RPM in a low gear then, the chances are that the engine will out accelerate the turbo. ie the turbo won't build boost as fast as the engine builds revs.. At low engine speeds, it can take 2 seconds or so to build full boost by which time you're probably past 2000 RPM. 180 lbf. ft of torque at 1800 RPM is actually quite hard to use-since it does not corrospond to any normal road load.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

I've recently been sent a French language ETIS Technical Bulletin for the CFT23 transmission,issued by Ford in October 2003.

Under "General Information" (my translation) it states:

"DO NOT assemble/disassemble the (CFT23) auto transmission during the first 12 months of its introduction to the market. During this time do not carry out ANY repair (assembly/disassembly) of the (CFT23) auto transmission.

In case of any incident with the (CFT23) auto transmission or of requests for technical information, send a flash report to technical service."

Can anyone can send me or point me to an equivalent English language Tech Service Bulletin? Any other comments on this guidance welcome.

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - Smiffy54

Hi rjp, following your legal case with interest as we have a '56 auto Cmax that has just had gearbox failure, did you get anywhere

05 1.6 Auto transmission failure - rjp

Yes - see "C-Max CVT settlement" thread http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=99134.

I know some other dealers have tried to pretend since then that my case was different, but all the material I used to persuade my dealer and Ford to agree to a settlement related to C-Max CVTs in general, not to my car in particular.

 

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