There`s a stretch of road near here where cars park both sides and it`s effectively one lane only, down the middle. You don`t see the car approaching until the last second, due to a bend, so it`s a split second decision whether to pull in and flash the other car through - or press straight on hoping he will wait or there may be a gap in the middle to pull into.
I`m used to pulling in and flashing people through. But over the last couple of years there has been an increasing number of drivers, male and female, `blanking` me and not holding a hand up to say thanks. Some of these are bus drivers who ought to know better.
But this morning, I let a silver MPV through and the driver mouthed the `W` word as he passed.
I wouldn`t say I`m really affected by these things (yet) but wondered if a `tipping point` would eventually be reached in society where motoring courtesy just ends and it`s a rats fighting in a sewer situation - for passage rights.
Regards to all!
oilrag
Edited by oilrag on 12/12/2009 at 12:12
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I don't think it will - despite everything my unwavering optimism tells me there are enough decent people around. Enough anecdotes in the recent past of fundamental decency amongst people despite everything. I've been into ROKs recently myself.
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Can't agree with you PU though i really wish i could.
The cut and thrust of especially urban driving is getting more aggressive/ignorant by the day, rural driving does find old fashioned courtesy with some exceptions.
It's a reflection of lowered standards in general, no manners the adults we see displaying the manners of the obnoxious creature Oily passed thismorning are the product of their generation which lost it's way, to be pitied really as one would someone more obviously damaged.
I admit to being a little incompetent in such situations as described, if the oncoiming vehicle is being driven aggressively ''it's my road lesser person'' then when they reach the narrowing point they can't make it through...my road positioning being that poor that they have to fit in the 'passing point' whilst i feebly attempt to move my vehicle out of the way, the look of hatred is quite satisfying:-)
Edited by gordonbennet on 12/12/2009 at 12:29
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I find that other road users are more courteous to motorcyclists (as opposed to Bikers) but riding style must have an influence - nice driving from a LGV driver (Eddie Stobart livery) yesterday whilst making porogress - well judged road positioning allowed me to pass him safely on a fastish A road - things like that do matter.
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My biggest temptation to reach for the Glock in the glove-box comes, not when someone does what my dear old dad would call a 'smart alec' manoeuvre, but with the sheer bad manners of not acknowledging a courtesy. By courtesy I mean 'giving up' your absolute right under the HC to allow another discretionary progress (e.g. as Oilrag's example above).
Sad to say most bad manners IME, come from women, middle-aged/old 'my speed' men in small hatchbacks or resentful looking types (of either persuasion) in bangers.
Vans, lorries & buses seem to respond to 'kindness' in driving with a cheery wave or whatever. Lorries in particular, seem to appreciate a headlight-flash when overtaking/pulling in on multiple lane roads.
(I was joking about the Glock by the way!)
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My biggest temptation to reach for the Glock in the glove-box comes not when someone
(I was joking about the Glock by the way!)
We know it's an Uzi!
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How do you know the W word was for you and not a reaction to say the radio??? Some people are so useless through gaps they can't drive through the gap and wave together. I'd rather they had both hands on the wheel really...
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I think oilrag is streetwise enough to Know whether or not an expletive was directed at him and not the car radio.
Edited by Robin Reliant on 12/12/2009 at 13:58
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please don't tar all bus drivers with the same brush. Don't forget he/she has 30 odd feet of vehicle behind them, they're having to check their mirrors through gaps, passengers saying "could you let me off here" (halfway through the obstructed route) and many more distractions.
If I can safely acknowledge an act of courtesy by waving through the windscreen/side window or by giving a quick flash of my hazards then I will do so. If I don't acknowledge it is still appreciated. I'll try and repay the courtesy to somebody else later on.
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I find it best to try not to "tip" at all. I remember discussing on here a good while ago that I really can't remember ever using my horn as a reprimand in 33 years of driving. Allowing oneself to be angered by others serves no useful purpose. However, if someone is clearly deliberately and aggresively blocking my way in the hope that I will back down or give way to them despite it being my right of way I will simply wait until they get bored and move themselves. Emotionally volatile people tend to wither quite quickly when they are met with calm determination.
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The young lady on the autobahn yesterday who pulled into the outside lane in front of me without indicating and going considerably slower than I was, got the full headlight flashing/ blast on the horn. When she had drifted back into the inside lane I drove past and noticed she seemed to be texting on her phone. Probably been too busy to notice me, poor dear.
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My daughter lives in a street like that one oilrag. Being in some London borough whose name I forget it has speed bumps too, but they are OK for 40 or so if you straddle them.
Nine out of ten drivers are sensible and courteous, but there are occasional twozzers who want to bully their way through and make no form of agreeable communication by gesture, facial expression or anything else. Sometimes there are little tangles as a result. I usually give way to them, even when the passing place is just behind them and the one I have passed is a long way behind me, on the assumption that they are incompetent anyway and I can reverse 50 yards more briskly than they can reverse five.
A lot of muttered oaths are heard in my car, but I learned long ago that there is nothing to be gained by crossing swords with some baboon (of either sex) in another vehicle. Sooner or later these people are bound to come across each other and get a thick ear, or better still a legal penalty for assault. One doesn't want to be involved in anything like that.
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I have to get a bigger white van.... ;-)
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If you let the driver through and he still mouthed a profanity Olirag then there surely must have been a reason beyond the mutual need to navigate that stretch of road. Could he have mistaken your beckoning gesture for one finger or two perhaps.
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Could he have mistaken your beckoning gesture for one finger or two perhaps.
Simply doesn't matter. He might even have mouthed 'Thanks' but just had an ugly and forbidding face. Life's too short to worry about it.
Taciturn and uninvolved but civil and communicative on practical matters. That's the way to be.
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I am lucky to be in a rural area in the country whre a fair amount of courtesy excists ! its great where most still wave to thank for even the most minor event! long may it continue. Far better than when in the South east of England & everyones in a hurry & there two fingers are almost moulded in position
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There are some very funny passages in "Three Men in a Boat" describing the way in which the most sweet-natured people on land become raging psychopaths when put on the water in charge of a boat.
It's somewhat similar with cars inasmuch as people who will get out of your way on the pavement without turning a hair, will look as though they'd quite like to kill you once they're safely behind the wheel.
Personally I think a Glock a bit lightweight for road use and much prefer an Uzi. But since I have neither, I try not to let anyone rile me and to let the idiots go on by.
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A little negative me moaning about this. Sorry. Let`s let the thread sink and I will try to replace it with something more uplifting ;-)
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A little negative me moaning about this. Sorry. Let`s let the thread sink and I will try to replace it with something more uplifting ;-)
I live in a city, admittedly in once of the 'nicer' areas, and I find that the vast majority of drivers are extremely courteous, particularly when it comes to saying thanks, or giving me the right-of-way. I wonder if there are regional differences?
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Small northern English and Midlands towns have the grumpiest, rudest and stupidest drivers. Only in my opinion of course. Chips on both shoulders and on top of their heads for good measure. Most cities have savvy locals and in the main rural drivers are pretty courteous. As a general rule of thumb anywhere without a cathedral but with a church and where they have trouble with vowels is full of mean spiited narrow minded drivers.
Test the theory next time you have the chance if you don't believe me. The worst of the lot are the erstwhile Cromwellian strongholds for a bit of fine focus.
;-)
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>>As a general rule of thumb anywhere without a cathedral but with a church and where they have trouble with vowels is full of mean spiited narrow minded drivers.<<
Doh! so you`ve been to B in F as well Humph!!
personally, i used to think that anybody that hailed from a place with sidewalks and streetlights were downright ignorant when it came to driving on our unlit, pavementless rural roads, then i realised it was simply that unless the poor, spoilt dears had full beam and front fogs on, they were totally blind, bewildered and just downright lost!! when they tried to dip. A few farmers started leaving field gates open to try and give the "townies" a run-off area, but for everyone that made the gate, six had taken the hedge. In an event to try and rectify this, the council tried installing special cats -eyes that actually lit up bright enough to light the way, but said "townies" then thought it was daylight, and turned thier lights off altogether, and ended up killing themselves!!, so the council took them out again.
Sometimes folk are so ignorant you just can`t help them! having said that a friendly wave and a smile in thier direction works wonders!! especially when they are crawling out of a dyke and trying to flag you down!!
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The worst of the lot are the erstwhile Cromwellian strongholds for a bit of fine focus.
Quite. In a former royalist garrison you can depend on every driver you pass sweeping off his feathered hat with a courtly bow, or (if a lady) stopping and getting out to curtsy. That may explain the day-long gridlock in Colchester for example...
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I drive a lot in London suburban side streets where you have to make decisions as oilrag describes.
I am quite happy to allow other drivers through but failure by them to acknowledge my courtesy, especially when I have the better right of way to the Highway Code, annoys me more than almost any other driving deficiency. I often find myself commenting on their self satisfying pastimes. But then I just forget it and carry on my serene progress.
If it ever does get to a stand off and they show no signs of reversing then I am amply competant, but like gb often find it takes an inordinate amount of time to do so. That length of time in proportion to how far in the wrong I know them to be.
One of my nephews on his driving test had a similar situation to the OP and said out loud, " Well a thank you would be nice.", something he had picked up from his father. He failed, but I don't know if that had any bearing!
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Just a point in passing so to speak, forgive the pun ! But in law there is no such thing as a "right of way" Where parked vehicles are concerned the first vehicle to reach the unblocked part of the carriage way is entitled to use it first, whether or not the obstruction is on their side of the road or not. So that if a vehicle is approaching you on your side of the road because of a vehicle parked on their side of the road so be it, if they get there first then they are entitled to use it regardless as to whether or not it would appear to be your "right of way" Told one of my neighbours this a few years back and he poo poohed the idea and stuck to his guns defending his "right of way" and stopped the job completely.
Unfortunately he found out to his cost that I was correct, the vehicle he chose to bring to a halt defending his "rights" happened to be an un-marked police car, the occupants of which promptly gave him an invitation to attend the local courts where he was fined for obstruction !
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This is not quite my tipping point, but it does give me a Basil Fawlty moment. Busy petrol stations. Why do so many motorist block the entrance to the forecourt so that they can get to their ideal pump? When I get to a busy forecourt and there is a vacant pump I just drive straight to it and if the pump is on the other side to my filler cap I simply pull the hose across, it isn't hard to do. When it is possible I drive straight past these people holding everybody else up and just pull in behind someone and wait. Invariably I've filled up before the selfish blockers have even found a pump.
Edited by pullgees on 12/12/2009 at 18:44
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But this morning I let a silver MPV through and the driver mouthed the `W` word as he passed.
I think he was probably saying "What a nice gesture" very quickly.
Don't concern yourself with attempted communication from those who are so obviously out of step with normality.
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To be honest, I'd rather most drivers kept both hands on the wheel than waved.
The roads both sides of our village are similar to the ones oilrag describes, except one side only has cars intermittantly. I find it annoying that people who's side of the road is continuously blocked seem to assume they have priority all the way through and expect you dodge into the intermittant gaps when they could easily ease off a bit and let you through without needing to deviate their position.
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"To be honest, I'd rather most drivers kept both hands on the wheel than waved"
The correct form in rural areas on single track roads is to move your right index finger an almost imperceptible half inch or so from the wheel. Anything more is simply ostentatious. Waving would imply lunacy
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"but it does give me a Basil Fawlty moment."
Did they ever cover `saying thank you` in Germany when letting someone through - in the era of the Third Reich?
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"but it does give me a Basil Fawlty moment." Did they ever cover `saying thank you` in Germany when letting someone through - in the era of the Third Reich?
Explain please I don't understand what you wrote.
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I was thinking of a sort of `stiff forearm salute` instead of a wave - while wearing a knotted hanky.
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The correct form in rural areas on single track roads is to move your right index finger an almost imperceptible half inch or so from the wheel.
Around our way, it's the merest nod of the head that passes for "thank-you". Normally it's so subtle that you're not sure whether the other person actually did it or not.
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Regional variations then. You are expected to do a cross between a wave and a `half Hitler` just South of Leeds. Maybe there would be a lifting of the flat cap a few generations back - in my youth - at the approach of the works managers Jag.
With the rise to dominance of fleece caps though we have found that you can`t get them back on with one hand.
I tried a `pork pie` on (like HJ`s) last week - but people sniggered in Marks - in that `expected to be bareheaded` West Yorkshire way. Some things you can`t take out of London unfortunately. Or at least, not past Sheffield.
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There are very local variations. I have noticed the "Pembrokeshire wave", which is a very slow raising and lowering of the arm. But only in S. Pembrokeshire. In the north, the form is either a nod or a small wave, but only rarely the raised finger.
At night, when the driver is not visible very easily, a raised flat hand is good at showing up in the other car's headlights. But normally a tiny little acknowledging toot is given, often but not always answered with another, which means "that's all right - thank you for for thanking me".
But some car's won't let you do a partial toot. I was given a full scale blast of the twin tones the other day, and I know the driver only meant to say than you.
Many drivers are virtually incapable of reversing, so it's sometimes quicker to reverse a 100 yards than wait while they painfully demonstrate that they only passed the test through a fluke.
But not having proper reversing lights doesn't help.
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Maybe we should have LED text options showing in a box at the front of the roof
1) After you
2) Thanks
3) Bladder
The latter would give priority and be graded in colour from green to red by an ultra sound detector scanning through the seat base.
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I find at junctions in Bath where you have to filter into a stop-start queue, people are more likely to let you in if you don't try and nose out. So I tend to stay behind the give way line, which annoys drivers waiting to pull out behind me.
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There's also the point that if you edge out cautiously, it rather gives the game away that you know what you are doing and are looking, so passing drivers can safely keep going and block you out,
If you hang back a bit, then wait for a slightly larger gap, or a nervous looking driver, then just go for it, they panic that you may not actually be looking so let you in.
Modern motoring is all about bluff and counter-bluff.
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Courtesy on the road ended when it ceased to be the custom for drivers stationary at traffic lights (especially the first one in the queue) to temporarily switch from dipped headlights to sidelights to reduce dazzle for stationary drivers facing them. When you're stationary at traffic lights, dipped headlights don't achieve anything useful and hence are just not necessary.
Edited by L'escargot on 14/12/2009 at 07:40
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That`s an interesting point, but would it be three points on the license for not having headlights on?
I can (just) remember being in my Aunts car aged around 5yrs and the RAC saluting the chrome badge on the front of her sit up and beg, pre war Austin. You would probably have to be Royalty or lady Ga Ga to be so treated now.
Remember the warm glow of receiving the salute? I used to salute back of course.
It`s been downhill ever since........
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........... but would it be three points on the license for not having headlights on?
You're stationary, so it's not much different from being parked with just sidelights ~ or whatever the pedants will tell me they're called nowadays.
Edited by L'escargot on 14/12/2009 at 09:05
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