Fork lift trucks are also serviced on the basis of hours run rather than miles. Probably because the likes of those and agricultural machinery spend a high proportion of their time with the engine running whilst stationary.
Edited by Robin Reliant on 12/12/2009 at 10:51
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...Probably because the likes of those and agricultural machinery spend a high proportion of their time with the engine running whilst stationary...
Or at fairly constant revs, which amounts to the same thing.
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Agricultural tractors clock up hours not miles. Perhaps one of the Back Room's sons of the soil could post about the servicing regime of a tractor?
SQ
My big diesel computer, sorry tractor, is on the Manager program for servicing. It uses a full synthetic for engine oil, which is changed every 400 hours. The thing is that my one doesn't do much hard work. But another guys could be running under full load most of the time. I understand that CAT had a system that was based on fuel burnt. Full load mine burns 33 litres and hour, but most of the jobs I do with it rarely see more than 15 litres burnt each our. So could the oil change be extended, or because it never gets that hot, should it be shortened??? Agco, over to you.
Our combine will sit in the shed from the middle of September to early july and do nowt, but when it is working it is usual under 95-100% load, according to the monitors. That gets fresh oil at 300 hours and I seem to remember them taking a sample of coolant away on the last one we had.
A tractor service interval was typically about 250 hours for the engine and 1500 for the transmission oil. Normally you'd just chuck some new oil and a filter at it and change the fuel filter when it started loosing power. But the new machines are so incredibly complicated a more thorough service really is the only way to go. Mine didn't get any new engine oil until 400 hours, but at the first 50 hour service they changed the front hub oil and the fuel filters.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 12/12/2009 at 15:07
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nb857,
I always understood it is combustion that degrades the oil, so the more fuel you combust, the faster the oil will wear out.
So a servicing regime based on fuel burnt makes sense to me.
I was brought up on a farm and used to drive a Nuffield Universal, Fordson Major and, for light duties, an old grey Fergie running petrol and TVO.
Our 'big' tractor was a Ford 5000.
I wasn't involved in servicing, but I bet those tractors would have been lucky to get an oil change every couple of years.
Most of the time we just chugged about, it was only ploughing with the 5000 that worked the tackle hard.
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My tractor is a John Deere 54 reg. She came with running in oil which needed changing at 100 hours.
Then the oil and filter should be changed every 250 hours with a semi synthetic 15W-40 oil.
However if you used an E7 oil and a John Deere filter you could stretch the oil changes to 500 hours.
I use the E7 spec oil, Shell Rimula RT4, and a John Deere filter and change it every 250 hours, because I agree with many posters that it is better to change the oil than have engine repairs.
The transmission oil, John Deere Hygard, is changed every 1500 hours, with 2 filters changed every 750 hours.
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So let me get this right......
If I change my oil every 5000 miles, my DMF will run forever and my fuel pump will never fail.......
Wonderful stuff.........
BS
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So let me get this right.....
If I make stupid sarcastic comments when people are only trying to help....
Wonderful stuff......
Edited by ifithelps on 12/12/2009 at 18:07
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I've not been reading this thread - apart from the OP + the 1st few replies = I'm not into diesels at all.
But I was reading up about the QQ on another site and time after time owners are reporting problems with their diesel engines.
As someone has previously stated above - some people purchase diesels for the wrong reason, i.e. they need to be driven with a capital D occasionally to clear em out.
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Avant said (a long way up the thread):
I'm not convinced that enough (if anything) in the constitution of engine oil has changed in the last few years to mean it can give of its best beyond 10,000.
I fully agree. I change the oil and filter in my old Zetec-engined Escort every 10,000 miles using a genuine Ford filter and the Ford-recommended synthetic 5w30 oil. I have just changed it 2,000 miles early as the oil seemed to have degraded and was allowing 2-3 seconds of hydraulic tappet rattle on cold starts, along with the same duration of oil-pressure light. When I drained the old (hot) oil, it sloshed out like black water :-(
The replacement oil has restored silent, immediately light-extinguishing pressure when starting from cold, thankfully.
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I remember the first time I changed the oil on a Zetec engine (dad's old Mondeo mk1). I thought the new, cold engine oil looked like water as it was going in! ;-)
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In answer to the OP, I expect the diesel engine in my car to be extremely durable. (One thing in it favour - no DPF, apparently)
The turbo is another matter. I expect this to fail for sure. However, my dealer claims that they are replacing turbos at cost, and not charging for labour.
Given the excellent experience that I have had from this dealer (the best that I've encountered in 30 years of motoring), I am inclined to believe them.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I can get 200k miles out of my car, but maybe I am just being stupid.
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So let me get this right..... If I make stupid sarcastic comments when people are only trying to help.... Wonderful stuff......
Nevertheless the OP quoted failing DMFS and fuel pumps in the context of long life servicing.
He is just pushing the tired old mantra of workshops - "fetch your cars to us twice a year, give us your money and everything will be fine"
My experience of 40 years owning and driving many cars is that the trouble usually starts when you hand your car to a garage for "servicing"
Theres nothing wrong with long life servicing - people need to wise up about the ignorance of many (not all) dealers and independents to even use the correct oil.
My comments may be sarcastic but they are certainly not stupid.
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....the OP is just pushing the tired old mantra of workshops - "fetch your cars to us twice a year, give us your money and everything will be fine"...
Brum,
Not quite, since the OP advises: .... an oil change doesn't have to be a £150 job at a main dealer, get it done at an independent (or yourself) between main services....
My regime is to drive my Ford around for a year, take it to the Ford dealer, give 'em about £250, drive the car around for a year, and repeat.
I reckon that is cheap, reliable, relatively hassle-free motoring.
If I was ever in the unhappy position of being unable to afford a full service, I would at least change the oil regularly.
You only have to compare what goes in fresh from the can with what comes out of the sump a year later to know oil changes are worthwhile.
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Just to go back to basics... what actually is "long life" servicing?
Lets look back a few years to the 60s and 70s when a car engine that had done 50k without problems was a good 'un... oil changes were then every 2/3k.
Then in the 80s (or thereabouts) the car makers introduced 5/6k servicing and oils got a bit better...
Then we were introduced to 10/12k or annual servicing and oils were better again...
Now we have 20k servicing and the oil's far better...
So what is LL servicing? Is it 6k oil changes, or 12k, or 20k... all are "long" when compared with 3k!!
I know that some people like to "play safe" and, no doubt due to their experiences earlier in their motoring life, decide to change their oil more often... but things move on and, if the owner sticks to what the manufacturer tells them there is no reason at all why 20k servicing should be harmful to the engine...
Its called progress, I, for one, am glad that the days of 3k oil changes and cars and engines which only lasted for 5 years/50k have long gone! Oil and engine technology has moved on in leaps and bounds since the 60s, it seems to me that some people haven't moved with the technology but are stuck in the past.
Edited by b308 on 13/12/2009 at 09:37
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Then there is the same engine used by two Marques with different oil change intervals.
I have mentioned this before, but there has recently been threads of Vauxhall Combo vans (ex post office?) with longlife (was it 30,00) 5w30 oil change intervals and seemingly turbo and engine failure.
Fiat use the same engine, specify 5w40 synthetic and (it was) 12,000 intervals.
I rang a Fiat service manager and discussed it and he said "No way!" regarding using VX`s extended servicing and 5w30 in Fiats. Same engine - different badge.
It seems to always be Vauxhalls that have turbo and chain failure with these engines. Although Fiats are running around doing the same work.
To me, this seems an example of making the engine oil and change interval fit the fleet profile of a company.
To who`s benefit? It seems to me, not the second or subsequent owners.
We can say "manufacturer knows best" but that statement is blown out of the water when you consider how one engine is seemingly treated so differently by two companies.
Edited by oilrag on 13/12/2009 at 09:57
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......He is just pushing the tired old mantra of workshops - "fetch your cars to us twice a year, give us your money and everything will be fine"
I think you're being rather impolite and cynical there to be honest! As far as I read, an experienced mechanic is posting what he finds day in day out dealing with all types of cars and problems. He doesn't have to take time to write on here. And the advice/observations is very worthwhile on a motoring forum. We could do with more of it.
Cheers B
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In response to b308.
Excellent points, and I can't disagree that technology has advanced considerably since the bad old days. However, the car market has seen the same revolutionary change as the technology in the last 30 years or so. The bread and butter isn't the private buyer, but the fleets, and the car allowance crowd who now lease cars in huge numbers. Maintenance costs have a big impact on lease costs, and lease costs have a big impact on sales numbers. A private buyer will buy a car on screen price. A fleet / opt out buyer buys on TCO, which means service costs have never been more critical in terms of the attractiveness of a product. The pressure to slash these costs has therefore never been greater.
Increasing a service interval from 10k to, say 20k, will knock tens (in some case hundreds) off a monthly lease cost and could make the difference between a customer choosing your product, or one from a competitor. The monthly lease cost is king nowadays, in a way it never was before.
Given that any issues resulting from extended servicing are highly likely to occur further down the track when the car is out of warranty and with its second or third owner, the manufacturers aren't going to lose out, and given that the warranty covers the entire lease period, the customer (rightly) doesn't care.
The point I'm trying to make in my usual long winded way is that the drivers behind extended service intervals are just as likely to be commercial as they are technical. In the business climate of the last 18 months or so, this is more true than ever.
Edited by DP on 13/12/2009 at 10:09
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Agreed B3 i'm one such fogey stuck in the past, however in my old fashioned cynical way i keep a healthy mistrust of things i'm told.
In my ignorance i imagine a scenario where at a meeting to decide such things the suits (who want to sell as many cars as possible) work out a life expectancy for their product, seemingly 3 years (as per most warranty) is what most of them rate a useful life and sure enough the vast majority of cars will be sold as company vehicles and sold on when or before the warranty runs out.
These fleet buyers are the bread and butter of certain manufacturers, so if their purchases only need one or two services in the vehicles ownership it looks a good buy.
Note how makers of Japanese cars (don't know too much about service requirements of Korean cars) don't want their cars doing starship mileages on the same oil, is that because they want to sell overservicing or do they want repeat custom from private buyers whose cars last many years and whose vocal views boost the makers reputation.
We'll never agree on this subject, the emphasis is on engine oil changing again, but could equally apply to gearbox servicing for instance, a few years ago both MB and BMW deemed their auto gearboxes sealed for life with no oil servicing needed.
Oddly enough those gearboxes started failing at high mileages, such LL servicing has been quietly dropped and oil changes are recommended...how many (usually 2nd or 3rd) owners took the handbook bible as gospel to their cost.
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A story of a remarkably tough diesel. A good few years ago I got the chance to buy an ex sales rep's Mk11 Mondeo diesel estate. At the time it was only 18 months old but had covered 85 thousand miles. The deal was excellent as the price was only £3.5k. I knew the firm it belonged to and even the rep who had had it so it all felt safe enough despite never having seen the car. I knew it had never been in an accident etc. Stupidly though I didn't ask about its service history assuming that as a company car it would have been kept maintained.
Anyway, the thing was that I was buying it for my wife who was struggling with the space issues generated by the combination of her Mk1 Corsa and the newly necessary detritus which comes with a new baby.
Deal done remotely I went to collect the car. First impressions were very good. It was immaculate in terms of bodywork and interior condition. So far well pleased.
Only when I got it home and checked did I realise that there were no stamps at all in the service book. At that stage I simply imagined that it would just be a case of getting it stamped as this had been overlooked. However, upon querying it further it turned out that it had never been near a garage from the day it was registered.
Strangely enough, having immediately got it fettled, service and brakes mainly it went on in her hands and mine for another 35k miles without any trouble. Must have been a tough old thing.
Eventually sold it for £3.9k I still see it around here sometimes.
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A story of a remarkably tough diesel. A good few years ago I got the chance to buy an ex sales rep's Mk11 Mondeo diesel estate
An engine which is pretty much universally derided, but I love it. Tough as old boots, and a doddle to work on. Mine had done 97k with a patchy history when I bought it, and still ran like new when I sold it on at 141k. Would start instantly in all weathers, never needed an oil top up between services, and just chugged along with total reliability. Nothing leaked, broke, or failed in any way. Did a timing belt and water pump as a precaution, changed a bottom engine mount and a set of glowplugs. That and filter/fluid changes to the schedule were all it ever needed. Checked the valve clearances at 110k and they were still spot on.
Now minicabbing in Poland! :-)
Edited by DP on 13/12/2009 at 10:45
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I always think that 3 litres of Mobil 1 and an OE filter are good insurance and peace of mind at around £40 and half an hour out on the drive changing them.
Even with arguably the top synthetic oil, after a 6,000 miles change, the engine is quieter than before.
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DP and GB, I'm not defending it - just pointing out that technology moves on - back in Victorian times things were overengineered in a big way (Forth Bridge for example), but times change and now its all done down to a price... I look back over my (and my Dad's) motoring career and marvel just how much things have improved... I suspect that the same arguments against LL servicing could also be used against the increasing use of electronics in cars, however the fact remains that modern cars are much more reliable than those of old, and over mileages that our parents could only dream of, electronics and increased gaps between servicing not withstanding!
Edited by b308 on 13/12/2009 at 13:02
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>>> I always think that 3 litres of Mobil 1 and an OE filter are good insurance and peace of mind at around £40 and half an hour out on the drive <<<
My sentiments precisely, I've 'preached' for years, decades even - that oil is the lifeblood of an engine, and the following article that I saw in The Sunday Times seems in agreement ~
Oil has to do some very important work inside an engine. The most obvious function is to lubricate the moving parts. An engine relies on lots of bits of metal moving up and down or rotating at very high speeds, and for it all to work properly they have to fit very closely together. But if they touch, friction will very quickly heat the surfaces and they will melt. So, oil is pumped around all the moving parts to provide a continuous thin film between them to stop them touching.
The second purpose oil serves is to carry heat away from the moving parts, heat from friction and the heat from the burning fuel. And finally, it has to mop up a lot of nasty stuff produced as a by-product of the burning fuel and store it in suspension until the next oil change ? you might view an oil change as the automotive equivalent of a trip to the loo!
In order to do all this the oil has to be thick enough for the thin lubricating film to stay intact at very high pressures to withstand all the buffeting which goes on ? bear in mind that a cylinder ?firing?, is actually a mixture of fuel and air exploding and you?ll get the idea. And, of course it has to stay thick as it heats up. At the same time it has to be thin enough to circulate freely, especially when the engine?s cold.
As the oil ages the combustion products build up. They are corrosive, so oils contain additives to neutralise them and stop them attacking the structure of the oil itself. The additives combine with the contaminants and new compounds form, some of which are not soluble in the oil, so precipitate out and stay in suspension. Most are filtered out by the oil filter ? which is why it?s there ? but some settle out as sludge, which can build up in the narrow passageways and restrict or even stop the oil getting through ? very much like arteries furring up from bad cholesterol. Like people who don?t exercise, the problem?s worse if the car doesn?t get the occasional decent run. A 100 mile trip along a motorway will clear a lot of sludge, get rid of any water that?s condensed in the oil ? and help the exhaust last longer, clean deposits from the combustion chambers, charge the battery properly, clear a particulate filter and do lots more good things. Cars like a good workout too!
Eventually, however, all the additive gets used up and the waste products do begin to degrade the structure of the oil. Even worse, if the filter gets full of sludge and blocked, it?s bypassed, so all the dirty oil circulates round the engine ? furring up the narrow oilways even faster and making the oil seem very thick. The harmful effect of this is not just the increase in viscosity and the restricted flow, but the fact that the oil is much less able to sustain the pressures between the bearing surfaces. Poor oil flow and degraded oil makes momentary metal to metal contact increasingly frequent and rapid engine wear results.
Turbo chargers are particularly prone to going bang in a very expensive way if the oil gets even slightly degraded ? the high temperatures and huge speeds demand a constant supply of good, clean oil, so walk away from any second hand turbo charged car without a full and exemplary service history ? just one late oil change can mean trouble looming. Even cars with a full service history aren?t immune from problems, especially if the manufacturer has put the service interval up to 20,000 miles. Extended service intervals have been blamed for such faults as snapping timing chains. They are usually lubricated by a spray of oil from a small nozzle. After a high mileage, the oil sludges, blocks the small hole in the nozzle and the chain, starved of lubricant, wears very rapidly then snaps.
So, infrequent oil changes run the risk of something breaking ? but you might get away with it, so maybe the money saved on oil is worth the gamble. Sadly not, because dirty oil gives another problem. Because the oil is saturated with the unwanted combustion products, it can no longer carry them away and neutralise them, so they hang around in the crankcase. A small amount of gaseous fumes circulating around the empty bit inside an engine is quite normal. These used to be vented to the atmosphere, but for many years now cars have had valves and pipes that feed these noxious fumes back into the engine to be burnt. That way they are treated by the emission reduction equipment of the exhaust system and don?t end up as atmospheric pollution. Normally this works very well ? although the fumes are mixed with the air and fuel, the amount is very small and has little or no effect on the efficiency of the combustion. However, if the oil can no longer do its job of absorbing most of the combustion products, there is far more to be fed into the engine, so much that combustion is affected and the engine performs well below peak efficiency. Once again, there?s only one way that sends the fuel consumption. In addition, the exhaust gases are likely to be much dirtier than the emissions equipment is designed to deal with and the result is more pollution, and at MOT time a failed emissions test.
The cure for all this is simple. If you do a normal mileage ? 10,000 miles a year or so ? have the oil and filter changed every at least 12 months. If you do a very low mileage consisting mainly of very short journeys, you might want to change it twice a year ? Spring and Autumn. And if you?re a high mileage driver, change the oil and filter every 10,000 to 12,000 miles, whatever the manufacturer says. Flushing oil used at an oil change will also get rid of all the settled sludge. It?s not vital if the oil has been changed regularly, but it does help preserve the engine and, at around £10, it?s certainly worth considering if you?ve just bought a car that spent it?s previous life poodling down to the shops once a week. It might be low mileage, but it?s the equivalent of a couch potato.
So, it pays to keep the oil clean and change it regularly. Less fuel, fewer emissions and good performance are the rewards ? and even if oil prices are at record levels, an oil change is a lot less than a new engine.
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Thanks for posting that Perro, interesting article with a good dose of common, confirms our long held to some of us.
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You could add "in the writers opinion" at the end, though GB, all it does is confirm your opinion, but as I see no evidence in there it does not actually prove anything...
Playing Devil's Advoacate in this discussion, I would question whether the Maunufacturers who advocate LL servicing would be stupid enough to do so if all the evidence pointed to things failing as often as the original post suggests, and at mileages well below when their warranty runs out... Also as pointed out by others many of these LL cars are high mileage cars, again what manufacturer is going to put their reputation on the line by reccomending LL servicing to their biggest customers (the fleets) knowing that if it fails to deliver they are going to get their sales hit big time?
As you will gather I remain to be convinced one way or the other, my only real opinion on the matter is that oil and engine technology has moved on considerable over the past couple of decades, but workshop gossip hasn't, hence a healthy dose of mistrust by many.
Perhaps we should go back to 3k servicing? ;-)
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failing as often as the original post suggests and at mileages well below when their warranty runs out...
Think that's the crux of the matter B3, common sense tells us that anyone likely to go past the warranty mileage in the given time frame is probably fairly suitable for LL servicing anyway (Humph is a prime example of how normal servicing is quite adequate where high mileage use and no doubt good care is beneficial), so the maunfacturers important high volume clients are pretty well catered for, it's the subsequent years and the lower mileage usually private buyer that *may* pay the price.
If their cars were so robust and their faith in their own product so good we'd see all cars with 100K 5 year warranties, and i'm quite sure once this false recovery (scrappage etc) is over we'll see others having to alter their warranties to stem lost private sales to Korean makers.
Like you i'm not 100% convinced either way each side will make convincing cases, but as slipping some in between services is so relatively cheap and easy it's just not worth the gamble, to me anyway.
Edited by gordonbennet on 13/12/2009 at 15:27
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One thing I disagree with in that article.....
>>Flushing oil used at an oil change will also get rid of all the settled sludge. It?s not vital if the oil has been changed regularly but it does help preserve the engine
that 'settled sludge' can end up in oilways and cause engine damage, IMO its safer to let it lie on the bottom of the sump etc, that stir it up.
of course, if the oil is changed before it get black and sticky, then the inside of the engine stays relativity clean - one more vote for regular oil changes...
right back to the coffee im drinking, to warm me up after being in the garden doing........
...... an oil change!!!
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>>> One thing I disagree with in that article..... <<<
Do engines suffer from black sludge these days I wonder?
In my mobile tuning days, I always used to whip the 'rocker' cover orf to check the valve clearances and I've seen some sludge that I used to refer to as John Innes No. 2 :)
I have shut up some very noisy hydraulic tappets by using an engine flush, but no - I wouldn't use such a product in todays engines.
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An important point to remember about extended service intervals, is that they're usually variable ie; up to 20,000 miles or 2 years. So under ideal usage conditions you may go 19,000 miles before the service indicator demands a visit to the garage, but if, for example, you do a lot of short journeys, the indicator may appear sooner.
Working from this, modern engines and oils don't really last longer, it's just that before variable servicing manufacturers worked out service intervals based on the most demanding usage.
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Volvo trucks - "Long oil change intervals mean lower operating costs and reduced environmental impact. When special oil is used, the maximum oil and filter change interval is 400,000 kms or every third year."
I also remember reading a comment from an industry spokesman a long time ago - "modern synthetic motor oils last a lot, lot longer than you think"
Modern euro IV compliant engines have extremely good oil control and fuel systems and contamination of lubricant with fuel is minimal.
I personally dismiss comments about "its sounds quieter" - its a placebo effect (cold oil) and is rarely true and has no bearing anyway on the lubrication properties of the oil.
Anyone who has "sludge" of any description in their sump is either using cheapo mineral oil or has problems with the cooling or engine management system. You cant judge an oil by its colour, i.e. most diesels will usually turn the oil black within a few hundred miles anyway - theres nothing wrong, the oil is doing what its supposed to do, I would be worried if the oil didnt turn black(in a diesel).
IMO far more damage is caused by the 3 to 5 seconds running with a drained oil system when you change a filter than running a couple of thousand miles over the recommended service interval.
Good quality full synthetic oil of the RIGHT SPECIFICATION for your engine is the secret for longevity - of course this comment only applies to engine lubrication related items.
It wont stop your DMF failing, fuel pump packing in or your turbo vanes breaking up as these have nothing to do with the lubrication system. These are design/manufacturing issues and have nothing to servicing.
Garages may charge you the earth for oil, but I challenge you to check what oil they use. I have yet to find a dealer who can tell me exactly what oil they use - "Its piped in mate from a bulk storage tank". Which means its cheap mineral or cheap semi synth. Indepedents may be better - but they all work to the same end - to make a profit. As such I expect the vast majority of cars get filled with cheap semi-synthetic at best.
A long life regime should take into account the mum doing the half mile run to the shops and shorten the interval appropriately.
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I`m not convinced that an engine stopped half an hour ago for an oil change suffers wear in the three seconds or so a modern car takes to fill its oil filter, after a change.
Remember those `orrible engines from years ago though - where you had that five second no pressure death rattle at every overnight start. Shudder..... ;-)
Edited by oilrag on 14/12/2009 at 07:46
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Well as I fill the oil filter with oil before I refit a new one, no issues with no oil pressure when changing oil. Simples.
I change diesel oil every year - low mileage cars.. Our 17 year old 106 diesel engine is like new...
Edited by madf on 14/12/2009 at 08:33
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Erm
Actually the origional BMW variable service interval arrangement when introduced ? about perhaps 12 15 year ago, must have been spot on.
cos a young woman whom I met on a course wa "scolding" that her car needed a service, and it was only "x" miles since it had been serviced, this figure being less than the altn fixed service interval.
Me and a couple of mates interrogated her about her driving cycle and concluded BMW were correct
Mostly short runs in & out of the city.
PS she had no idea what a dipstick was or indeed its intended function
PS
Tractor oil is good as well, one does NOT need Mobile 1 for most engines
Edited by dieseldogg on 14/12/2009 at 12:24
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Brum
"Garages may charge you the earth for oil, but I challenge you to check what oil they use. I have yet to find a dealer who can tell me exactly what oil they use - "Its piped in mate from a bulk storage tank". Which means its cheap mineral or cheap semi synth. Indepedents may be better - but they all work to the same end - to make a profit. As such I expect the vast majority of cars get filled with cheap semi-synthetic at best."
i had two bulk tanks & 1 was filled with 5/30 fully synthetic & 2nd tank with 10/40 semi synthetic.
The 5/30 tank used to cost litterally thousands to fill & each car had the right spec oil & I couldn't charge the full retail as it was so dear! so profit doesn't always come first! & I did get a lot of repeat business .
using quality oil was always good security.
I can remeber being challenged by a dealer once due to a warranty claim & the dealer claimed I had used cheap oil & informed the customer so & rejected a claim. Lets just say it was all put right by the dealer & a letter of apology was recived ( very rare ) & its just reminded my customer why he never trusted a dealer.
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You're doing better than my local Vx dealer then inj doc. I specifically asked for the 5W30 that Vauxhall recommended, and they proceeded to fill it was 10W40 anyway...
The service guy said they only had 10W40 in bulk, that they all got it and were fine, etc etc.
Funny how they still charged the full menu price which was based on 5W30 longlife oil mind.
One more Vx dealer crossed off my (every shortening) list... I *really* need to try some of the indies round here... :)
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Rumour from a trade contact in our town, is that one place is using reclaimed oil in modern cars. I didn`t ask whether it was bought in, or an out back filter set up, just to make it look clean again, but with exhausted additives.
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When I had a PD engined Passat, the first time I took it to a local indie. to have it serviced (I got the recommendation from this site), they had no idea it needed "special" oil (i.e. VW PD oil). They admitted they would have put in their generic stuff had I not supplied my own Millers!!! Scary.
Edited by nick62 on 14/12/2009 at 17:40
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I had a premature turbo failure on my 130 TDI PD MAF probs yet. I think the basic engine on a PD is okay but that kkk turbo doesn't seem to be brilliant.Been told to change the oil more frequently, use only good fuel and give the engine a good bootful at every oportunity to clear the soot (which hardly goes hand in hand with economical driving now does it). My next car will be petrol
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Oh and yes the ignorance on 505.01 is shocking given the damage it can do. Luckily I use a VAG specialist
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My last 8 cars have been diesels (1 Ford, 1 Nissan, 4 Renaults, and 2 Peugeots), all with high mileages on the clock. With the commuting distance involved in my last job I've covered a lot of miles in the last few years. So far the only major problems I've encountered are a cambelt going on a Nissan and an injector being blown out of the head on a Renault. Both can be put down to previous owners - misleading information about the last change on the Nissan and a bodge with a helicoil on the Renault.
What I have never skimped on is routine maintenance - oil and filter change every 6k, shot of injector cleaner in the tank twice a month, coolant flushed and changed annually, tyre pressures checked weekly. As most of the cars - none of which cost me over £1000 - have gone over 200k and one nearly to 300k I think the regular servicing has proved to be very good value.
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(reply to mattbod)
I've never ever seen a PD 130 PS engine with a KKK turbocharger - they're all Garrett.
The weaknesses of the PD are MAFs, sticking VNT vanes, lift pumps (occasionally) and injector looms late on in life. The basic fuel system is extremely reliable.
You don't need to thrash it to keep the VNT vanes clear - WOT at lowish revs going up a hill will demand full boost and exercise the system. Don't believe the fuel rubbish either - diesel fuel to EN590 is specified for this engine and I buy mine in Tesco.
The beauty of the PD is that all of the highly stressed components in the fuel system including the vital roller followers are lubricated in engine oil.
659.
Edited by 659FBE on 14/12/2009 at 19:22
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Hmm not doubting you but the guys on Briskoda say the Fabia VRS has a kkk(Borg warner) unit.Maybe a cheaper option for the cheaper cousin??
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The BMW variable service indicator was introduced much earlier than that; my old E30 325i Touring has it and it was registered in '88. In saloon form the E30 was launched in '83 IIRC, and I'm pretty sure it had the same system
Peter
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