BBC news article about "road trains" - no not the aussie lorries either.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8349923.stm
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If the electronics fail, the result is a massive pile-up of vehicles too close together to take evasive action even if the drivers hadn't put their feet up.
But of course we don't need to worry about that. Electronic gadgetry never fails, does it? ;-)
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Pointless it will never happen. The simple reason is would you get on a plane without a pilot? Even though they have autopilot....
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How do you know you haven't already ? Do you go into the cockpit and check every flight you board ? Could be the bloke in the tower talking to you over the speaker system.
The road train might get rid of the MLOC.
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You're in the middle lane of the motorway and there's one of these things in the left lane. Your exit is approaching. How are you going to get off?
You either have to accelerate like the clappers to get in front, if it's not too late already, or slow up in the middle lane, letting it go by on your left until the end appears, because you can't get between the constituent cars.
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I was thinking of this from the otherside and joining the motorway.
Road train with trucks on the inside lane, MLOC boxing the road train in, queues on the slip road trying to get on to the motorway.
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>>You're in the middle lane of the motorway and there's one of these things in the left lane. Your exit is approaching. How are you going to get off?
You have a one mile warning of approach of an exit. Perhaps you're one of these last moment divers?
gmac has a sensible question:
>>I was thinking of this from the otherside and joining the motorway.
If the road train slowed at entry junctions to say 50-odd MPH, then the joining traffic would have no problem if they used the slip-road properly.
NowWheels
>>If the electronics fail, the result is a massive pile-up of vehicles too close together to take evasive action even if the drivers hadn't put their feet up.
If the vehicles are closely bunched, then they're not likely to hit a stationary car, but one that's travelling close to their own speed, thus reducing impact?
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one that's travelling close to their own speed, thus reducing impact?
So that's all right then. Just a few car owners stuck with a bill for a couple of grand for new lipstick - sorry, new 'bumpers' ha damn ha, oh yes, and new electronic sensors fore and aft. But no one hurt physically, just machine-gunned in the wallet.
Modern motoring in spades eh? Just as well the powers that be are too thick to get it together if you ask me.
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"You have a one mile warning of approach of an exit. Perhaps you're one of these last moment divers?"
Absolutely not, but in the real world lots of drivers are.
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You're in the middle lane of the motorway and there's one of these things in the left lane. Your exit is approaching. How are you going to get off?
'Each road train could include up to eight separate vehicles' - 8 cars nose-to-tail don't take up that much room really. I mean one long artic on its own is, what, 4 cars?
Although if all 8 vehicles are long artics then it's more of a problem...
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Pointless it will never happen. The simple reason is would you get on a plane without a pilot? Even though they have autopilot....
Would you get in a train without a driver? Oh I already have - the docklands light railway...
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Yep but the Docklands is different, I have been on that myself and still have nightmares of my trip to Bank underground station in order to get onto it. The docklands is different because it is seperated from normal rail or road traffic. I would not get on a train from Manchester to London if it had no driver.
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Listen rattle, its not the automtaed systems you want to be wary of, its all the human operated system that crash and burn.
Edited by Altea Ego on 09/11/2009 at 15:15
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If the electronics fail the result is a massive pile-up of vehicles too close together to take evasive action even if the drivers hadn't put their feet up.
Bit like fog then
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'An EU-financed research project'
and about as much use as a chocolate teapot, still it's created another dept of non jobs that we have paid for.
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Reading the report I think this is the study I was part of when I did my 2 2.5 hour sessions in the driving simulator at Leeds Uni.
I received £90 of the EU money, so I'm not complaining.
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I thought the thread was going to be about the nutters who drive nose-to-tail on German motorways at 130 mph.
Do me a favour. This wireless thing will involve mimsing if it ever happens. Which it won't.
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Would be fun on the M8 with slip roads on and off lanes one and three!
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As I read this I began to convince myself it is April the 1st. Then when I read it will be tested in Spain I was absolutely certain. That's the best piece of utter rubbish I've read this year. I've never used this expression before, but ROFLMAO.
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All these closed minds
< sigh >
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Quite fancy it do you AE? I must say I don't really believe you.
I am surprised - pleasantly - by NW's scepticism. Also surprised that NC hasn't appeared to tell us that cars can drive themselves far better and more efficiently than we can and the technology can soon be perfected. It will be better for us to bumble along at 20 mph staring at the rump of the car in front.
Oh hang on. That's what most of us do already.
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While the technology is interesting, I can't see this idea making the leap from controlled test track to public highways. It's like with those buses that could drive themselves by following induction loops buried in the roads that were demonstrated two decades ago. I think something similar has been used for slow-moving machines in factories but that's all.
Just think how closely matched the behaviour of the vehicles would have to be for this idea to work safely. What if one of the cars has better braking performance than the one behind - a recipe for an automated concertina pile-up if ever there was one.
Actually I can think of one useful application for this technology.....Formula 1 !!!!!!
Edited by Sofa Spud on 09/11/2009 at 16:05
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It would not work for Formula 1, the cars drive around in isolation half a lap apart!
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I am looking forward for the techonolgy to be developed for the car to drive me home from the pub.
Open door, start car and hand over control.
It will happen.
Big brother WILL watch out for you
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im with mike on this one and even looked at the date on the link
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As I read this I began to convince myself it is April the 1st. Then when I read it will be tested in Spain I was absolutely certain.
As well as the fact that the project co-ordinator is Tom Robinson - presumably of '2 4 6 8 Motorway' fame:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7hILW52SbY
:-)
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Although this 'road trains' idea is unlikley to become practical, as I said above, the idea could come into its own if applied to a tailor-made transport system, where all the vehicles are standardised and the road they travel on excludes other traffic - like automated taxis.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 09/11/2009 at 21:00
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I always thought this idea would eventually come to life (although I feel i've seen it on Tomorrows World about 3 times in the 70s/80s) but part of the problem is also that we drive so many manual cars...there would need to be so many instructions to people to be in the right gear and to tell the road train what car they were in and how it was loaded so that if it were composed of a Kia Picanto with 4 fat passengers and a BMW with a single passenger that it would not be struggling to keep the lot together.
I can see there being different modes of it eg ones that would lump caravan tow ers together (which many of them try to already in convoy)...middle lane types, and fast lane Audis BMWs and car parts vans so all could try and keep 100mph plus...
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According to the article it is planned that individual cars can leave or join the train anywhere en route.
I can see how a newcomer could join the rear - just drive up close then presumably log-in. But what happens when someone in the middle spots his junction, and pulls out - does he take the remaining train with him into the services, or leave them leaderless to career on blindly?
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Another couple of points about this:
1) It absolutely assumes that nothing will happen to the lead vehicle. Imagine if something crashed over the central reservation head on at full motorway speed right in front of the lead vehicle.
2) The report suggests the trailing drivers can take their hands off / read / relax - in other words, lose their concentration and be half asleep when they leave the convoy and resume manual control.
3) Oh yes - and what happens if one of the vehicles runs out of fuel or suffers some form of breakdown in mid convoy?
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I am convinced this will become a reality, but unlikely within the next 50 years. look at the film "I Robot" for how it might look. I imagine such a system would use buried cables and only be used on main routes initially. You would drive to something like a slip road, punch in your destination and the system would pick you up and slot you into the traffic. You would then be taken to a point off the main route where you would then take over and drive to your destination. Such systems have been on trial for many years, it will happen.
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I don't doubt you are right DC, it just seems a bit pointless and wasteful (no change there then) to pour much needed resouces into something that won't possibly happen in our lifetimes, and the likely results of little consequence in the expected time frame.
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I think it's good, if such a system worked then you could effectively eliminate a lot of congestion on the motorway network, most of which is caused by useless humans making bad decions at the wheel.
For example, the most smooth flowing motorway that I have ever travelled on is the stretches of roadworks that are controlled by SPECS, in all the times I've used them I've only encountered one jam in a SPECS zone and that was caused by an accident tailback On the whole, by keeping everyone moving at a similar speed you find that you get almost no jams.
This appears to me to be a way of emulating that effect whilst also saving some fuel owing to the reduced wind resistance.
I admit that in it's current form it's not really a particular revelation and will make little difference, but once the technology is perfected and can be scaled up then it's welcome to the (distant) future guys. Don't tell me that you all really think that humans will be controlling the traffic of the future? Computers can do it far more efficiently and more than likely with far fewer fatalities.
The only bit that I don't like about the plan is allowing cars to travel between lorries, as someone has rightly pointed out, if a car or obstacle (e.g. a military tank, as happened a few years back) were to be dropped into the carriageway the cars in the middle would be crushed completely with certain fatalities. The cars should be at the back (which makes most sense for wind resistance anyway)
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