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Could it be a case of incompetence rather than dishonesty?
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Could it be a case of incompetence rather than dishonesty?
Yet another reason for going elsewhere.
If they are so incompetent that they get the mileage so wrong,then what else have they been incompetent with in respect to this car.
If your confidence is shot,stef,then walk away.
I would.
They've made it relatively easy for you-13.5K on invoice,22k on odometer.
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What I don't understand is how the OP viewed the car without noticing it had done 22k miles. Isn't that something you take in when considering a car?
So when the invoice arrives with 13k on it how do we know that's not just an error in the dealership with no intent to deceive?
Why would a dealer put the wrong mileage on the invoice when everyone, including the punter as far as the dealer knows, is aware of the right figure?
Come on Stef. Tell us how you didn't notice the mileage on viewing and what's happening now.
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My brain's not up to speed yet.
I've looked at the first post again and see that the car was advertised as 13.5k miles.
Even so, that's one of the things you'd check on a test drive, and since the dealer would expect you to do that, I can't see how he'd gain from deceiving.
On a three year old car (as others have said) it's not a huge difference. Maybe the dealer confused two similar cars.
Since OP both saw and drove the car I don't really think she's relying on what she was told. If the car was advertised and described as red on the invoice, but the car she drove and bought was blue.......................
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The car has done 50% more miles than you were expecting.
This is a tendentious way to look at things - percentages here are almost irrelevant. Surely you aren't suggesting that the car is '50% older' than advertised, and should cost a third less?
There could be various explanations for the difficulty, but if the OP is happy with the car apart from the numbers showing on the fascia, she should find out the trader's excuses and take it from there. A reasonable price adjustment should be in order, if she (presumably) found the original mileage and price acceptable.
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>> The car has done 50% more miles than you were expecting. This is a tendentious way to look at things - percentages here are almost irrelevant. Surely you aren't suggesting that the car is '50% older' than advertised and should cost a third less? There could be various explanations for the difficulty but if the OP is happy with the car apart from the numbers showing on the fascia she should find out the trader's excuses and take it from there...
I disagree.A few miles,I could live with,but the buyer was expecting 13.5K on the odometer.That is waht they were buying.
Such a large discrepancy,yes,of approximately 50% is unacceptable in my view.
If the OP had wanted a 22K car,they would have bought a 22K car.
Listen by all means to their excuses-what could they be?
1."I thought we could pull a fast one on you"
2."we're incompetent in this garage,sorry"
3."we do what we like around here.You'll just have to suck it up"
4."13.5K was on a similar car which we sold,so you can have the 22k one"
5."it was a typo,my secretary isn't very good.13.5K is very similar to 22k when typing".
6."My cat ate my homework"
Please,feel free to add any more excuses...
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Please,feel free to add any more excuses...
>>>>
>>>>>>>How about im sorry for being human but im now going to hang myself.
Ive often advertised wrong mileages usually to the customers benefit as when you are writing lots of words its easy to get confused if you have more than one car of the same.
I am quite confident its an error that the garage will bend over to rectify to the customers satisfaction but once again this is a motoring forum so lets slag all people that work on the other side of the desk---------until you need our help and then we are great for 5 minutes--
long live DAVE DOWN THE PUB EH......
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Frankly, I think hanging is too good for the dealer in this case. I think he should jack the car up, crawl under it, then kick the jack away.
The car you buy is individual and valuable to you; to the dealer it's one of so many it's identified by a bar-code on the key fob.
I think this is an error which the OP could have sorted by looking at the display when she drove the car.
I'd like to hear that she's spoken to the dealer and to hear what he has to say.
Or is this a thread in which the OP will disappear and never be heard from again?
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Needs to be raised fast with the dealer at any rate, or else you run into "well yes, it says 22.5k NOW, madam, you've been driving it haven't you."
At a tangent, Mrs Dipstick took a two week old but faulty pair of shoes back to John Lewis, yes John Lewis, once and they actually said "well you've been wearing them haven't you".
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I think part of the problem here, as the owner of a major franchise in Nottingham once said to me when I was trading in a 2 year-old car with 30K miles, "the trouble is people don't buy cars, they buy odometers".
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My thoughts....
You are certainly right to query this and might reasonably be given an apology and some level of financial compensation.
As an unrelated aside, a three year old car with only 13.5k on it will be likely to have been underused on short stop start journeys. One with 22k on it may have had its engine warmed through a bit more regularly. I'd personally prefer the 22k one provided the price matched the mileage.
Sometimes I do 5k a month and I can't say ny car's condition has changed noticeably in the last 100k. Your car will still be absolutely fine and only in the first flush of youth, and provided you can get a suitable response from your dealer, I encourage you to enjoy it.
I hope it was a simple error.
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>Please,feel free to add any more excuses...
How about "When it came in it had 13.5K on the clock and that is when the ad was written. Since then hit has been driven by potential purchasers (or used as a courtesy car) and so of course the mileage increased."
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Such a large discrepancy of approximately 50% is unacceptable in my view. If the OP had wanted a 22K car,they would have bought a 22K car.
I was not suggesting that the discrepancy was acceptable - just that calling it 50% is a way of exaggerating the value of 9K miles, which is less than one oil change in the life of most modern cars. 22K is still a low mileage on a 3-year-old car, so it's probably unimportant except in valuing it for sale. The dealer should refund the mileage adjustment if the original price was fair for 13K.
Of course if you have any other reason for distrusting the dealer ...
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I just put my own car into Glass's guide's valuation machine at 3 years old with both 13k and 22k. The difference in cost of the car is £200.
Scarcely worth worrying about, is it...
100,000 miles extra knocks off 3,000.
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I still think it's a bit of a coincidence that the Miles/Kilometres come out at the same distance.
Maybe the National Mileage Register has been mistakenley logged in Ks.
Have you double checked the odometer the other way ? If it is 22k miles then the Kilometre reading should be around 37/38 K.
Just bought a Note with 20k miles and it looks, runs and handles like brand new. I f you like the car apart from the extra miles, I would keep it and try for a little money back if possible.
I have dealt with lots of dealers, professionlly over the last 25 yrs, I'm sure ' clocking cars 'is rare...and, with modern speedos, probably impossible or too much bother to be worth while.
After all, your car would have sold just as easily with the higher milage on it....I can't imagine that they've set out to deceive you over that difference !
Ted
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I've spoken to the dealer, who has offered either to take the car back, or give me a free service. I'm not interested in the service, but would consider keeping the car so am asking for some cash to compensate for the extra miles. If they aren't forthcoming the car is going back.
It may have been a genuine mistake, however the higher mileage is on the MOT, the warranty and the NMR report, so someone at the dealership clearly knew about it.
I didn't think I would need to verify the mileage as I was buying from a main dealer, therefore it didn't cross my mind to visually check it when I took the car for a test drive.
Stefan
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I cannot understand how you failed to notice the mileage when test driving the car it's not a case of having to search for it IT IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES. Seems like you have taken cold feet over the deal and just want out.
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I cannot understand how you failed to notice the mileage when test driving the car
I can, and shouting doesn't help.
Edited by Focus {P} on 28/10/2009 at 22:22
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Actually on modern cars you have to change the display settings to display the milleage. Many modern cars don't display the milleage unless you change a setting on a stalk.
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I'm sorry. Am I the only one here who thinks the OP shares some responsibility with the dealer. If the dealer is busy it will be easy to make an adminstrative error and mix up two cars 'on the lot' for an advert.
The OP drove the car. Does she have eyes? Did she not check the mileage when she test drive it? That was the time to walk away, not now.
If there is no need to reject the car for quality reasons, I would accept the service offer, espcially since the dealer has nothing to hide as all the paperwork is available. Also I would prefer a three year old car with 22,000miles rather than 13,500 miles.
I bought my 14 month old car with 22,000 miles. Still drives like new three years later.
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Yes.........my Golf shows total miles on startup. As soon as you move off it disappears into digital current MPH. It doesn't show total miles again until you come to a stop.
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OP. The dealer made a mistake. The car is worth at most £200 less than you paid; the reality is that it would have been sold with the same sticker price - as I bet it ended in 995.
What would be the point in his trying to pull the wool over your eyes? If he had been trying to do that he would have clocked the car (takes 30 seconds with electronic displays) and thrown away the service history.
If the only way you have of telling the mileage is 22k not 12k is that the oddometer is wrong then what's your problem.
Accept the free service, but ask for it in 6,000 miles or whenever it is due. The dealer owes you nothing really - you'd have paid the same price regardless of mileage - so a free service is a great deal.
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The dealer owes you nothing really
...apart from a sincere apology presumably
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Actually on modern cars you have to change the display settings to display the milleage. Many modern cars don't display the milleage unless you change a setting on a stalk.
Really? I can't think of any car I've driven that doesn't show the mileage by default.
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Really? I can't think of any car I've driven that doesn't show the mileage by default.
Depends on what you call "default" I'd say, Steve, my Skoda shows the mileage with the engine off, but as soon as you start it up it defaults to the outside temperature and trip miles, to get the mileage back you have to press a button on the stalk... so in the OPs case she may have only been in the driving seat when the engine/ignition was on, so wouldn't have seen the mileage!
I had a similar thing happen with a 6 month old car where the mileage was 3.5k over the advertised mileage, I complained and got the Cruise which they had fitted for me already (it didn't have it initially) free of charge, suited me as 3.5k was neither here nor there over the time I was intending to keep the car!
Edited by b308 on 29/10/2009 at 12:26
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The dealer has offered either to take the car back, or give me a free service
This offer seems to me more than fair. I don't see that you have any serious grounds for turning it down. You will have to start again looking for another car - unless maybe you already have one in mind?
BTW, apologies for assuming 'Stef' was female ...
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The dealer has offered either to take the car back, or give me a free service
>>>>This offer seems to me more than fair.
I'm not so sure, it depends what the free service entails. If it is just an oil/filter change and a general look round then the cost to the dealer of the parts and couple of hours of the apprentices wages will probably be about £35 if that. Looking at it like this the dealer is laughing all the way to the bank.
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Looking at it like this the dealer is laughing all the way to the bank.
Why? We don't know whether the car was priced right for 13K or 22K - most readers seem to assume a bit of sharp practice somewhere. Seems to me that someone trying that on, would aim to make a better profit. And if the dealer wished to be nasty he would just make no concessions.
As I said earlier, the apparent 'loss' is less than one oil change on a modern car - which is what the dealer is offering. These days you need more than £200 to laugh on the way to the bank.
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Stef:Walk,walk,walk,or run.
The dealer has misrepresented the car.Despite all the apologists here,I don't care if the car's value has barely changed with the extra mileage or that the car may be a better car with more miles on the clock.
If stef wanted a 13.5K car they should expect to get a 13.5K car,not a 22K car even if the latter is a trillion times better.
Stef has got a leg to stand on,13.5K was on her invoice and that is what they were expecting.If they are not happy with 22k on the odo then they have done the right thing in bringing it up with the dealer,who in fairness has offered a refund or a "free service".
Stef does not seem to want a "free service",so I would say get your money back and look elsewhere.
i am sure you will be able to find a car that you have confidence in.i am sure you will check the details really carefully neck time!
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It's no wonder the British are viewed as a soft target by tricksters and conmen judging by some of the replies to this thread.
If you went into a restaurant, ordered and paid for steak, would you just settle for a burger?
The dealer is clearly trying to pull a fast one - I would give him his car back and look for a more reputable outfit.
The more we let traders get away with scams like this, the more they will try it on
MVP
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The dealer is clearly trying to pull a fast one ...
I don't agree - I don't think that is certain at all. If this car is exactly what the buyer is looking for, except that the invoice and odo don't agree, it seems to be putting principle before pragmatism to start all over again. It is still a low-mileage car. Just resolve the discrepancy, sort out the paperwork, accept the goodwill gesture of the dealer, and get on with your life.
And if things still rankle, don't buy there again. Most private buyers don't often do that anyway - I have bought 30-40 cars in my life, and only 2 or 3 were repeat purchases.
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Stef has got a leg to stand on 13.5K was on her invoice and that
It's Stefan, David !
Edited by OldSock on 29/10/2009 at 15:39
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My opinion may differ somewhat from some of those on here.
There is a mileage discrepancy of 7,500 miles. For a light to moderate user that can be a years mileage.
I tend to change, foolishly maybe, between 40K and 50K and after 50K I start to think of the vehicle as becoming 'high mileage'. The age to me is somewhat irrelevant.
The buyer would also be 7,500 miles closer to a more expensive service. It does not take into account future costs which would come earlier e.g. tyres. 7,500 miles is about half way through a set of tyres which would require earlier replacement.
So in this instance the car will reach the time for change and expense a year earlier and if I wish to sell privately it becomes less attractive a buy with the higher mileage on it.
The figure of £200 difference in 'book' value I don't see as an acceptable value price difference. Depending on it's age the extra mileage makes it less of a good deal in the eyes of the purchaser.
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Push for cash. The attitude "it's numbers, everyone makes mistakes with numbers, I don't like maffs" seems to apply to everything nowadays and it's not acceptable.
How would you feel if the pilot of your aeroplane came on the PA and announced that they'd only taken on 13 tonnes of fuel instead of 22, but it's a simple mistake that they've made lots of times before because there are plenty of planes out on the apron and they're nearly all white?
Making a mistake once is completely acceptable - making it repeatedly screams incompetence. Why didn't the OP check the mileage? Dunno. Not her fault. Lots of exciting things happening during a test drive. Maybe the dealer was pushing her for time, in an unfamiliar car in an unknown area. Doesn't excuse the mistake on their part. How hard is it to wander out to the forecourt and doublecheck the reg and mileage before posting the ad?
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