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I might be wrong, but there appears to me to be more diesel engine reliability problems reported in this forum than petrol engine problems. What do you think? In your reply it might be better if you said whether you are a diesel nut or a petrol head.
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I am noticing more and more petrol taxis around than there used to be. I think a diesel will still most likely last longer but the diesel will cost far more in repairs and servicing on the way (in average).
I always say unless you do more than 15k a year you're better of with a petrol as they are cheaper to service and cheaper to buy. It does largely depend ont he engine though.
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I always say unless you do more than 15k a year you're better of witha petrol
No you aren't... I really wish that people would stop quoting this myth... it is, as others have said, much more complicated than just based on mileage...
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I always say unless you do more than 15k a year you're better of with a petrol as they are >> cheaper to service and cheaper to buy. It does largely depend ont he engine though.
A diesel can still make sense for a company car driver if they do less than 15k miles a year. I'm in this category. All down to benefit in kind taxation. Newer lower CO 2 petrol turbo cars might be on my list next time around though.
I like turbo (even low pressure petrols) though.... so could go for a diesel again. Maybe a 180PS or thereabouts :-) But the VAG petrol 2.0T with 180S looks very appealing.
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It's easy to over simplify this topic.
Basic reciprocating 4 stroke engines are a mature product and as such, the "bare bones" of an engine don't generally give trouble. There are well known exceptions such as the small engine GM camshafts and other oddities, of course. Thanks to modern lubricants and mature bearing and piston ring technology, most bare engines will run to high mileages.
Due to fuel price and pollution legislation, the complexities lie in the engine fuel systems which, on any car now have to be sophisticated. Diesel fuel systems have always been made to fine limits, but the injection pressures required to meet current standards push pump cams and followers to the limits of their component materials when lubricated in fuel.
So, I'd say it's hard to draw any firm conclusions but a "survey" based on fuel systems supplier (especially for diesels) might yield some interesting results. Of course, I wouldn't dare to comment...
659.
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Depends what you mean by reliability.
I believe it is still the case the majority of breakdowns are caused by problems with electrics which diesels don't have - compression ignition is generally more reliable than electrical.
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with electrics which diesels don't have
Sorry, the clock has moved on 20 years. My (obsolete) PD diesel has electrically operated injectors, lift pump, air mass measurement and about a dozen other parameters. It is controlled by an ECU of some sophistication which includes closed loop control of a variable geometry turbocharger.
If that lot keeps working, there's still an electronic immobiliser with a transponder chip in the ignition key head to stop it...
I'm afraid you can't get the specific fuel consumption and emissions performance of a present day diesel without electronics.
659.
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But most petrol engines have all that too.
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Petrol engines don't have DPFs or operated their injection systems at such high pressures (up to 30,000psi IIRC) which requires virtually aviation-quality manufacturing. Modern diesels are great when they work but a nightmare when they go wrong. For a rep that does mega-miles they make sense but I get the impression they don't like 'average' usage.
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My personal set of circumstances is that I love driving a Panda 4x4 but the petrol version that I previously owned was desperately underpowered. Now, the diesel version is no ball of fire but the little bit extra power makes it more relaxing to drive.
It has neither DPF nor DMF. It's more economical than the petrol version but my mileage is too low to justify, in reality, the change I made.
However, I do expect the diesel to be more reliable in the long term.
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i hate filling diesels up
stinky stuff
plus you get it on your cappers
its not cheap anymore either which is why we all went down the diesel way many years ago
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Personally BB I went diesel for fuel economy, it would have to get considerably higher for me to swich back to petrol...
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All this stuff about diesels being uneconomical under 15k miles pa is wrong:
IF
you do mainly short journeys (diesels last longer do better mpg when cold)
and
you buy secondhand when the initial depreciation has happened.
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It is interesting to note that due to extremely expensive future legislation to be introduced by the EEC in the next couple of years, to clean up diesel pollution, that Ford`s future engine development is biased towards petrol engines, using small 3 cylinder turbo charged units, that are close to diesel levels of economy.
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what EEC legislation would this be ?
I brought a brand new diesel car this year.... now I am concerned
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what EEC legislation would this be ?
Probably the next EU emmissions regulations... wouldn't affect anything bought now... Its interesting that petrolheads always used to complain that turbo diesels were too complicated for their own good and thats why we should all buy petrol... but now these new small petrols seenm to be as complicated, if not more so, than a TDI... and then there's the hybrids which take electrical complexity to a new level!
Bring back simple engines and electronics please!!
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Next level for diesels is suprisingly Euro V. Car manufcturers have been aware of this for some years and it's why the PD is history.
Euro IV could be achieved with a PD, Euro V couldn't so it will disappear to be replaced by CR meeting Euro V (VAGs new 1.6 diesel engine).
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Just out of interest has anyone got any mpg figures in "real life motoring" rather than the Gov figures to prove that these engines are indeed as economocal as a diesel? Thinking about the VAG 1.2 and 1.4TSis so far...
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Its all irrelavant, we will all be driving battery cars in a few years anyway.
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I had a diesel, albeit a Fiat that was incredibly unreliable. It cost me a fortune to upkeep and the mpg wasn't that great either. Eventually I gave in and got myself a Honda Accord 1.8 vtec. It had done 80k miles when i got it 5 years ago and has now done 262,000 faultless miles. Engine is as smooth as ever, with the only fault which has recently come to light is a porous sump casing - hardly the end of the world. I'd buy another tomorrow. So in answer to your question - I think it may be more down to the manufacturer than whether it's diesel or petrol. (though a Honda diesel could be the best of both worlds!!)
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Anecdotal I know and only a tiny sample so totally unrepresentative......but have owned those totally unreliable French Citroens since 1987. 2 BXs (non -turbo), 2 Xantias (one td, 1 HDi), 2 Berlingos (Hdi).
They have done (did?) 170k (sold to friend who took it to over 200k then sold on), 140k (sold to friend who took it to over 150k then sold on), 110k(sold), 106k(still got it - goes like a dream), 38k, 35k.
The only things done to the engines were regular oil changes and cambelts when required or before (usually at 72kish). The second BX had new glowplugs and both Bxs had cam cover gaskets (glowplugs and gaskets I did myself for a few quid.
Don't think I can complain about diesel reliability.
Phil
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My opinion:
Modern Diesels
Basically longer lasting if serviced correctly
Mostly have very high tec fuel systems which are very expensive to fix
Good high torque at slow engine speed (demands tougher transmissions)
Provide a driving style that some love, some hate
Modern Petrols
Smooth and quiet
Cheaper to buy
Use more fuel
Often need to rev hard to get best performance
More reliable but ultimately wear out sooner
Personally I prefer diesels, but it never ceases to amaze me how the internal combustion engine development continues at an incredible pace.
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Regarding reliability probaly both engines are equal depending on service maintanance .Like one backroomer mentioned,electrical problems are more likely to happen with both engines.What worries me more is that from a diesel engine exhaust there are 480 different chemicals which 40 are detrimental to our health.The soot which is not fully burned fuel and oil Regular maintanance of a diesel engine is even more inportant.A petrol engine is les powerfull than a diesel but creates no soot particles.I know their is a lot of research going on to recirculate the exhaust gasses .(EGR) Combined combustion systems.
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I believe it was Screwloose (may some deity bless his holy name- he's gone to a better, happier place) who said: "never buy a used modern common-rail diesel engine without a warranty".
That said, I've had very little problems with a mix of Ford and Peugeot late-model CR engines (until the Mondy played up) so who really knows? The man with the NUMBERS!
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