news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8317648.stm
I was watching around the world in 80 days last night with nick hewer 10/10 and saira khan 0/10 and the thing that struck me as i watched them go through countries i cant pronounce was the amount of old /new ladas there were about.
You might knock communism but at least it kept workers in my link above in food and housing
Edited by Pugugly on 21/10/2009 at 19:09
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The reason why its the only proper employer in its home town is the town Tugatti? was actually built for Lada.
I am not surprised though cars like the Dacia Logan and some of VW's entry level cars which are not sold in the UK are far better cars.
Some how they never seem to have moved on with the rest of the world. It is a shame because back in the late 60's when it was setup they had some very advanced technology (over head cams for example, rear coil spring suspension) which was rare on cheap cars back then. However as the decades passed their new designs lacked any sort of build quality and now European and Asian cars are sold in Russia its only market is now vanishing.
Its a shame but Lada really needs a proper modern car it can build under licence for Eastern Bloc market.
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Rattle, Zastava in Serbia are doing just this with the Mk2 FIAT Punto. Perhaps Lada should revive the hugely under-rated Marea? That's the most recent successor to the FIAT 128.
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What ever Autovaz build now it will probably be in production still in 20 years time so they need to start with a brand new design. When the classic Lada was introduced in the early 70's it was based on a brilliant car the FIAT 124 although the design wad 4-6 years old it was very modern and as a result it is still been made today with nothing more than new engines and a slightly modified body.
I believe Renault have said they would design a new small car with Autovaz for this market but unless Lada get their finances sorted I can't see them doing well.
The odd twist to the story is that Lada are doing very well in Germany because of the scrappage.
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I was under the impression that Lada, had to pull out of the European Market becasue they could not devolop engines that would meet European Emmision Laws.
Taken from the "releiable" source Wikipedia
"fronted with the need to meet new 1992 EU emission control requirements, Lada tried to continue to use a carburettor with an exhaust catalyst instead of the near universally adopted electronic fuel injection. Three years later at their first emissions MOT test they failed very badly, needing new expensive catalysts. Over-fuelling had destroyed the catalysts. This catastrophe, along with a shortage of certain imported components, and increased competition from Daewoo and Proton in the '90s, led AvtoVAZ to withdraw from the UK, Ireland and most other western European markets."
Edited by redviper on 21/10/2009 at 15:11
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Just watched the video on the linked webpage- is it my imagination but at about 55 secs in, does the white car going down the production line next to the reporter look like it's been in a rear end shunt? Bodywork looked crumpled, and lower part pushed out.
Have to admit to a slight smirk at the car journo being called Andrey Motorov.
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Bodywork looked crumpled and lowerpart pushed out.
Its a protective cover to prevent accidental damage
100,000 workers.........................................................
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Ladas could meet the Euro emisions perfectly ok but the injection system was supplied by GM. GM wanted to charge too much for these units than Lada could pay. Lada wanted too much per unit so the UK import company decided the game was up and told Lada where to get stuffed.
I think the Riva had stopped in Europe at this point and there were injected Sameras on sale in the UK in 1996 but in the end Lada wanted far too much money for its right hand drive cars so it wasn't worth it.
It is also worth noting at that point I guess the UK had a better supply of Malysian cars since they drive on the left too. We could import the likes of Proton and Perodua far easier than European countries this meant Lada had more competition in the UK.
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not convinced lada injection systems were gm can you provide a source other than say wikpedea?
as for lada and injected systems i well remember them as being very unreliable to the point they were a laughing stock in the auctions as we used to put our pots of tea on the bootlids as we helped push them under the rostrum and then walk away leaving the buyer (mug) and the driver to push them out
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I remember at the time articles said the system came from GM, I suppose they could have been made by Bosch etc but been supplied by GM. I imagine they could have been Delco units.
I don't have any sources other than my memory tallies with Wikis.
Edit here is the full story behind Lada in the UK. Also suggests they were from GM.
www.lada-owners-club.co.uk/lada_%20history_in_the_...m
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thanks for the link an interesting read
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GM don't make fuel injection systems, they buy them. Normally from Delphi or Bosch.
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A taxi driver in Fleetwood did galactical mileage in his, swore by it. They may be a bit agricultural, but simplicity costs very little
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Your cabby pal is more or less guaranteed a place upstairs CC ! He will honestly be able to persuade St Pete that he has already done the eternity in purgatory bit........
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The reality is they were outdated even when Fiat allowed them to be built by Lada - the ones imported into this country were horrible if durable bits of junk - Brand new Lada or a decent second hand Ford??
Quite rightly when Russian markets opened up the "proletariat" voted with their feet and were pushing pedals on modern Japanese or Western European cars. Evolution - the same that decided Rover's fate.
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I don't think there was too much of Fiats engineering involved apart from the shape.
I found the 124 a sparkling car to drive, light and nimble, free revving with good handling, very nice compared to the cart sprung heaps of the day.
The Lada required a Charles Atlas set of muscles to steer the thing (helped if they remembered to put some oil in the steering box), and it had the handling of a vintage Coventry Climax fork lift.
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Yes, Rattle, you're right of course. 124 not 128. Zastava reproduced the 128 in Yugoslavia. I was a passenger in a gas converted example not two weeks ago.
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But iffen our back lane was owt like the Russian roads
The steering was ideal for the conditions it was designed for
Pot holes, what potholes?
jat
M
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"the hugely under-rated Marea"
Interested to read that. The estate seems a very good buy, but I've no direct knowledge. Can you expand?
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Estates are very good buys I think. I owned a 1.8 petrol 115ELX saloon for a few years, having bought it at a year old, previous owner being Budget (an ex rental). I found the car economical, powerful, comfortable, well specced (it was a 2000 X reg and had aircon, CD, rcl, elec windows all round etc). Lovely comfy seats, good handling and a compliant, comfortable ride. The boot was huge, there was plenty of room in the back seats for three adults too. Did everything a Mondeo/Vectra etc would have done at a far lower price - I paid 6k for it with 15k miles on the clock. I say they're under-rated as they never got the praise nor the sales volume I thinnk they deserved. I wish FIAT still made a good mid-range size saloon, I'd had a Regata in the 80s and had also driven a few Tempras in the 90s, which I liked also. They all have that indefinable Italian "zap".
Nothing went wrong with it, it never let me down and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It did have one drawback - a very high insurance group, which meant that, after a minor claim on our other car, I was quoted £900 to renew and that was when I traded it in for a 1.2 Seat Ibiza. Always regretted it and sometimes even wish I still had the car.
Obviously they're all a lot older now, but I still sometimes wistfully gaze at the occasional 2.0 petrol (150bhp) I see on autotrader. Would still quite fancy one.
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Thanks - that's rather what I thought. As with Lancia, the reputation of 70's Fiats to rust seemed to stick, which was a bit rich considering the similar tendencies of pretty well everything made here at the time!
WRT that indefinable Italian "zap", it's 20 years since I had an Italian car, but I know exactly what you mean. Time for another, perhaps.
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I recently sold a Stilo Multiwagon. A diseasel. Even that had the "zap", and I quite miss it. The Mazda 6 which replaced it is a far better car, but still, there's something missing when compared to the Stilo....
I've never seen a rusty Marea/Bravo/Brava. And there's still quite a few Bravas about by my reckoning.
My Italian fixation is currently entertaining thoughts of a nice Alfa 166 before they get too old and knackered. It's disappointing that not only do FIAT not have a mid-range saloon currently, Alfa don't have a large saloon either. The 164 and 166 were smashing motors.
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"the amount of old /new ladas"
Probably because there wasn't much choice! Anyone know what happened to Moskvitch?
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Probably because there wasn't much choice! Anyone know what happened to Moskvitch?
Died in 2002 apparently:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moskvitch
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Erm
I tink the Fiats of the Regatta era were of a class to themselves re rusting
complete respray while under the 1 year warrenty
might as well have peed on her
she rusted faster than ever after that
a peach of a diesel engine though, by the standards of the time
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Unlike Fords, Mercedes and VWs of the late 1990s, 10-years-after-the-Regata-era, era?
FIAT sorted the problem decades ago, others weren't quite so quick. Stop perpetuating the legend, please! :-)
The Regata was an excellent model, and in 70ES form had stop/start engine technology.
Edited by Alanovich on 22/10/2009 at 13:59
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Saw an E reg Uno yesterday preface lift so I am not sure if that would have a FIRE engine or an overhead valve engine but it sounded like new. There was also no rust on it all, I assume the milleage on it must have been very low.
I also see lots of MK1 Puntos and they appear less rusty than an early MK1 Focus.
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>>Saw an E reg Uno yesterday...
depends on the model:
45's were either 903cc pushrod (badged FORMULA?), or 999cc FIRE in later versions.
55's and later 60's were 1116cc OHC (predecessor to FIRE, of which the 1108cc was used eventually)
70's were 1301cc OHC version of the 1116cc design.
Not sure what the designation of the 1372 turbo was...
The pushrod engine was the noisiest - prone to rattle, you might say, but the others were pretty quiet.
MK1 Puntos are fully galvanised, AFAIK, so they should be rust free unless damaged.
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