Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - Gregory II
Hi
I have a deauville 650cc motorcycle. It has 25000 miles on the clock. It has a problem whereby it is very hard to engage into neutral. All other gears are ok. I have also noticed that the gear change is very stiff.

When the engine is switched off, it gets into neutral with the utmost of ease. Can anyone advice me of what this might be?

Thanks
Gregory

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/10/2009 at 18:52

Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - Gregory II
I think it might be something connected to the link. How easy would it be to take apart, and what parts are likely to be needed to deal with this issue?

Greg
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - Gregory II
I am thinking it might be the gear change links or even clutch cable adjustment might be required. Any thoughts?
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - sumpnut
If it is hard to change when stationary, but will change easy when still rolling, then it sounds like clutch drag. If there is excessive slack at the cable then that should be adjusted until its about 3 to 4 mm.
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - davecuk
Definitely sounds like the clutch needs adjusting as any drag at all will make it hard to engage gears.

I hae a CBR1000 and it was the same....gear changes are always easy when moving...changing up anyway, no clutch needed ;-), but I use it because I am old and poor.
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - DP
I agree with the posts above. If it's OK with the engine switched off, it's almost certainly the clutch, and adjustment is a good starting point.
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - Gregory II
I have tried to adjust the clutch as per the haynes manual, and it is doing the same thing. Where should I think about fault finding now?

Thanks
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - sumpnut
When you say you have tried to adjust the clutch I assume that is a figure of speech, and that you have completed adjustment as per the manual but the problem still exists.

If this is the case put the bike on the centre stand, put it in first gear, pull in the clutch and try to turn the back wheel. If it does not turn with relative ease the clutch is dragging.

This can be caused by several things such as bent, worn, or jammed plates. This most times means a clutch strip to find the cause.
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - Gregory II
Thanks for your replies. I adjusted the clutch, and even went to my local mechanic to ensure I hadn't overlooked anything. The problem still persists however. The back wheel turns with the centre stand with the clutch engaged.

I have looked in the haynes manual about changing the clutch friction plates. It looks quite involved. Can anyone point me in the direction of a video that walks through how to change clutches on motorcycles? I looked on youtube and google but I could not find anything adequate.

I was thinking along the lines that I could attempt it myself and replace the clutch plates inside together with new springs. Any thoughts?

Thanks
Greg
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - Dynamic Dave
The back wheel turns with the centre stand with the clutch engaged.


Perfectly normal. Seen many a bike do it.

Same applies to a car. Raise the driving wheels off the ground, start engine and engage gears with the clutch in and they'll turn as well.
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - Simon
Does it have a wet clutch? Is the clutch & gearbox lubricated by the engine oil? Have you tried changing the oil, or has it been done recently with the correct grade?
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - johncyprus
This was a well known characteristic of the NTV650, I don't know if it was sorted before the NTV 650 morphed into the Deauville. When I rode my NTV I found it best to engege neutral before coming to a standstill.
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - AndyT
This was a well known characteristic of the NTV650 I don't know if it was
sorted before the NTV 650 morphed into the Deauville. When I rode my NTV I
found it best to engege neutral before coming to a standstill.

I remember from a Deauville forum, that riders often commented on the same issue, and used the same technique when rolling to a halt.
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - DP
>> The back wheel turns with the centre stand with the clutch engaged.
Perfectly normal. Seen many a bike do it.


Yup, totally agree. My ZZR does it, as did my ZX7R and SWMBO's old GPZ500S

In fact, this is a good sign, as it shows the chain is in good nick (any tight links prevent the wheel turning under these circumstances). It also shows the rear brake isn't binding.
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - sumpnut
Sorry I think I have not made it very clear that you turn the back wheel by hand against a dead engine.
After the first bit of stiction you should not feel much resistance, showing the clutch is disengaged and not binding. Not so good a test if you have a rear disc brake or tight chain.

Some bike models always have this problem and selecting neutral when still rolling is the easy answer, but if it is a problem that has developed from a system that worked o.k. in the past, then it may be worth repairing.

As regards to help doing the job get someone who knows about bike repair to help you, perhaps one of your biker friends, or club member. You do need care as bike bits can break easy, especially when using an impact driver.

Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - Gregory II
During idling, there is a rumbling noise that the mechanic heard. He thought it to be quite excessive. Do you know what might be the cause of this noise. It sounds like it occurs when the clutch is engaged; it seems like a rough knocking noise.

Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - mickyh7
Just change the complete clutch ! If your keeping the bike anyway. The clutch may have had a torturous life before you got the bike. Its not such a difficult job anyway.You should be able to buy pattern parts to keep the price down. Look in MCN at the services page.
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - nfield750
OOn many bikes, it?s very hard to find neutral when at a standstill, this is normal, just select neutral before you stop.

If the clutch is dragging (as is not disengaging - see test below), I'd be be inclined to check for a nice smooth action from the cable and check that the cable isn?t hanging on by a few strands just before it snaps. Unless the clutch plates are warped (the Deauville is not exactly in GSXR boy racer territory), I'd be inclined to check the operating mechanism behind the cover before splashing out on springs and clutch plates. These engines are normally tough and trouble free

As was said previously, bung the bike on the centre stand, engine off, in first gear, pull in the clutch and rotate the rear wheel by hand. There should be the same resistance as with the bike in neutral, hand off the clutch (there may be some initial stiction). The gear lever should move freely against the return spring until the next gear engages with a click, you will have to jiggle the rear wheel backward and forwards to move up and down all the gears

If you start the bike on the stand and leave it in neutral, the rear wheel will turn slowly as a result of oil drag in gearbox. This is normal and more pronounced with a cold engine.

Of more concern is the excessive rumbling that your mechanic mentioned. Some clutch rattle/rumble on tick over in neutral is normal, especially with a cold engine. The noise should disappear when you pull in the clutch. Balancing the carbs/fuel injection can reduce the rattle/rumble. If its really bad, I'd remove the clutch basket and check the integrity of the damper spring assembly on the main gear

Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - Gregory II
"On many bikes, it?s very hard to find neutral when at a standstill, this is normal, just select neutral before you stop"
This also happens when going...it is equally challenging to find neutral.

Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - sumpnut
If this is the case, and your mechanic can hear noise he is not happy with, then now is the time to bite the bullet and strip the thing down before more damage is done.
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - Gregory II
www.fixya.com/motorcycles/t1883933-honda_deauville...0

I looked at this site saying motorbikes don't like 10w40 car engine oil. Is this correct?
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - Gregory II
Can anyone shed any light on whether car engine oil is good to use in a motorcycle. Is there any difference between the different types of car engine oil that would suit a motorcycle engine better, i.e. 10w40 semi etc?

Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - DP
Motorcycle oils are designed for the stresses of a motorcycle engine - i.e. shared oil between transmission and engine, and the high revs that motorcycle engines are capable of. I know people who've used car oils, but I wouldn't recommend it. Motorcycle oils are not that much more expensive, and are designed for the job. It makes sense to me to stick with the right brew, and avoid any question marks.

Cheers
DP
Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - Rich L

I have had a similar problem since replacing my clutch friction plates with pattern parts. All adjustments are fine, and finding gears is no problem. Neutral can be selected easily if the bike is moving with the engine running, but not at standstill.(1st or 2nd gear selection from neutral is fine at standstill). With the ignition off, neutral clicks in easily. No problems prior to changing the clutch plates. All I can put this down to is the first plate, which is slightly different to the others in the Honda originals - it has small grooves in the middle of the tangs and a slightly different friction material pattern. The pattern set plates are all the same (except the last one, which has a different internal diameter, as per the oe plates). I guess that the small grooves in the tangs must have an effect on the clutch when the bike is at standstill with the engine running, as there are no other differences to setup after changing the friction pads. Perhaps your bike has had the clutch plates changed for non-oe ones in the past.

I will try removing the plates and filing grooves into the first clutch plate to match the original when I next carry out an oil change,to see if this cures the problem as it is not a major issue at present.

(I have tried adjusting the clutch cable from the point where the clutch slips with the lever fully out ie tight cable, to where the cable is so slack the lever pulls back to the bars to engage the clutch, with no success)

Deauville 03 650cc hard to engage neutral. - mss1tw

The gearchange on my Africa Twin (Same engine) gets grumpy as the oil gets older - I change every 4000 miles.

 

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