Hi,
We were sitting in the pub the other night talking about tuning cars. Basically there were two camps on this. One said that to achieve any real gains in performance by the use of chips etc it had to be a turbocharged engine. The other camp thought that this was wrong, and indeed big performance gains could be made without having a turbocharged engine to start with?.
Any ideas?
Edited by Pugugly on 30/09/2009 at 10:01
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Chips can shove more fuel in on a non turbo engine but not more air needed to burn it. A turbo engines air boost pressure can be increased by a chip - so it can burn more fuel.
The whole thing reduces engine safety margins, will likely reduce life of engine and transmission.
Atmospheric induction, sans turbo, is always going to be a three legged donkey - despite the chip making the legs go (slightly) faster..
Edited by oilrag on 30/09/2009 at 09:59
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Agreed. Its dead easy to instantly boost power by upping the turbo boost pressure. any other way needs much more care and thought and cost.
I make no claims about reliability or engine longevity tho.
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Skim the 'ead, set of wide wheels and a noisy saust and hey presto.
MD.
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Sell the car and buy an unmolested one which has the performance you want.
That way you get a car designed and built to handle the power not one that's been fettled in one or two areas.
Edited by gmac on 30/09/2009 at 11:00
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tinyurl.com/y8aq4mp
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tinyurl.com/y8aq4mp
Refreshingly honest!
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If you want to get more power form any engine you have to burn more fuel. Either you maintain or increase the volumetric efficiency at higher revs or you compress the mixture before it goes into the cylinder. You play around with the volumetric efficiency at a given rpm with a combination of valve timeing and inlet/exhaust tuneing. You pre compress the mixture with a turbocharger or supercharger. I am ignoring increasing the comprssion ratio these days as you are stuck with non leaded petrol. In fact if you are anyway serious with turbochargeing or supercharging you will have to reduce the compression ratio.
However, look at it another way. What you are trying to do is to imorove the power to weight ratio. Reduceing weight may be a cheaper way to work towards your objective. It as the added afvantage of costing nothing in reliability. As they say, more power makes a car faster in a straight line, less weight makes it faser everywhere.
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Thanks for all the input people. The link that bell boy provided was refreshingly honest. Im not actually thinking of doing it to my car. I have a Audi 1.4TFSI and am very pleased with it. I've always thought that it's probably best not to try and increase the power from the engine with a view to possible negative side effects. As one of you said just buy the correct car in the first place.
This was just a general discussion, And all your views are appreciated.
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>> tinyurl.com/y8aq4mp Refreshingly honest!
...and considering a Superchips Bluefin for my Focus only increases the power by 10% for £234, bb's 5% for £20 makes it look good value as well. Perhaps I should buy 2 :-)
Edited by Focus {P} on 30/09/2009 at 13:34
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It is a 5p resistor in a 25p plastic shell.
You'd think the manufacturers would have done it already ;-)
(well I think the ECU overfuels most cars on Wide-open throttle to prevent overheating, but that's because they know what they are doing... I think).
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It is a 5p resistor in a 25p plastic shell.
Ah but don't forget:
- 2 metres of professional quality twin core insulated cable
- Full fitting kit
- Step by step fitting instructions
- Double sided adhesive pads to fit the controller to your dashboard
- Unlimited, lifetime support via email
- Money back guarantee
- Lifetime warranty
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how dare you call a variable potentiometer a resister
yours of yorkshire.............. ;-)
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how dare you call a variable potentiometer a resister yours of yorkshire.............. ;-)
Dear mr yorkshire.
As only twin core cable has been supplied, then clearly only two connections are in use on the variable device. Hence, in practice, it is in fact a Variable Resistor, or as we posh type types in Surrey call it it, a Rheostat.
Edited by Altea Ego on 30/09/2009 at 16:23
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>>>Sell the car and buy an unmolested one which has the performance you want.<<<
I learnt this lesson many moons ago, well decades actually ...
Mrk 2 Cortina 1600 super, I fitted a stage 2 head + fast road cam + twin choke weber with K & N filter + Lumenition + Kenlow + Howe exhaust + Spax, I even put some wood effect Fablon on the dash & tops of doors (haha!) ... we live & learn (I think!)
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Did all those modifications make it slower, thirstier and noisier perro? I think we should be told.
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Did all those modifications make it slower thirstier and noisier perro? I think we should be told.
In any Male mind, under the age of 22, thirstier and noisier in fact means it must be faster.
Every youth knows, the noiser it is the faster it is.
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Every youth knows, the noiser it is the faster it is.
Perhaps so AE. And we all like a nice engine/exhaust sound don't we?
But the reason I asked perro that question is that in the sixties, when I worked for a market research company at the bottom edge of Mayfair, the MD, a ferocious Aussie, changed his very nice Peugeot 404 for one of those Ford Zodiacs, the bob-tailed swing-axle one with a bonnet like an aircraft carrier flight deck. A young fellow working for the firm was an enthusiast who had built himself a Lotus Seven, and the MD paid him to tweak the Zodiac with a camshaft, skimmed heads and doubtless one or two other bits. I seem to remember the MD was not at all pleased, because the car didn't go any better and was a bit pernickety after that too.
The point about those sort of modifications is that they have to be made to work together. It's quite subtle and delicate really, a brutalist approach doesn't usually work. There's more to it than just bolting things on.
The way to start really in those days was to get the bog standard engine to perform properly. Not many did after a year or two. Tune is subtle. You have to have an ear, and green fingers.
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an ear, and green fingers.
I tried to add, but was too late, that you have to be able to take the car out on the road and be able to tell whether there is an improvement and whether it involves any sacrifice of driveability. That alone demands some level of skill and sensibility. A lot of people wouldn't really have a clue. Perhaps that's why they judge by the decibel level.
:o}
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>Sell the car and buy an unmolested one which has the performance you want.
>That way you get a car designed and built to handle the power not one that's been >fettled in one or two areas.
All very well unless you want the performance of a £100K+ supercar. I'd rather spend a LOT less and have something that'll destroy supercars up the 1/4mile
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All very well unless you want the performance of a £100K+ supercar. I'd rather spend a LOT less and have something that'll destroy supercars up the 1/4mile
I think it's called a Huyabusa and will do the job for about £8300 new.
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I think it's called a Huyabusa and will do the job for about £8300 new.
True, the bikers win hands down on performance for money. The only snag as far as I can see is that when you screw up in a car you scrub off the speed going sideways wheras on a bike you scrib off the speed on your back side.
A serious question though about bikes relative to cars. What are bikes like as regards sheer cornering speed, absolute roadholding, compared with cars? I mean a serious bike versus a serious car both with the grippiest road legal tyres you can find.
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A serious question though about bikes relative to cars. What are bikes like as regards sheer cornering speed absolute roadholding compared with cars? I mean a serious bike versus a serious car both with the grippiest road legal tyres you can find.
A car still has it IMHO.
I live near the Nürburgring and while a bike can go quickly round the corners, there are cars which are quicker. There is so much more effort required on the bike.
Cars have downforce added through diffusers, spoilers etc... this obviously slows them down on the straights but come into there own in the twisty bits. You don't get that kind of help on a bike.
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Isn't the problem with a bike that the faster you want to go round a bend of a certain radius, the more you have to lean over. Even assuming the tyres keep gripping, there's only so far you can go. Is that correct?
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Even assuming the tyres keep gripping there's only so far you can go. Is that correct?
There are some people who can ride off the edge of the rear tyre (I'm not one of them), next time you see a bike look how close to the edge of the rear tyre it is worn. The shape of the rear tyre helps you get over and a stickier compound is used on the outer edge to give grip over a harder wearing compound in the middle where most road riders will be.
Usually the foot pegs touch down before anything else. Again have a look at a bike and you will see these extensions on the pegs, this give you a clue as to how far over you are on a road bike.
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Most reliable way of getting more go is to lighten the car. One vintage racer decided one year he had done everything he could do the car so attacked the issue the other way on. He went on a diet!
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I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the beneficial effects of go-faster stripes. Are they still made?
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go-faster stripes.
... and cleaning your car (although there were those who felt an even coating of grime improved the aerodynamics by promoting that all-important boundary layer)...
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I'm sure that there is a learned paper somewhere which shows the aerodynamic benfits of go-faster stripes on the boundry layer. I just can't remember the name of the ad agency who published it.
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He went on a diet!
Might have been a cheap performace gain when you see how much people do spend to save tiny amounts of weight.
On the subject of drivers weight I remember something from years ago. We all know that the lower the C of G of the car the better and we also know that the driver is in fact a pretty heavy componant of the car. Thus, when there is an option the lower the driver's seat the better. But someone, I think it might have been Andy Dawsen - famosu for Imps and Clans, decided to raise the drivers seat a couple of inches in a rally car. The result was better stage times because the driver could see the more of the road ahead.
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Improving handling and braking also improves 'performance' and should be the first step before engine mods.
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