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my old mini had a button on the floor , cant get easier than that?
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have any of you got one of those keyless entry things...i'd be worried it hadn't worked when you left the car and wanted it to lock, so would be giving the key thing to someone else and then going back to check the car, just to make sure...how pointless would that be
...unless of course i've misunderstood what it's all about, which is entirely possible
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Oh good, a pet hate of mine...i do not want one, give me a key put key in slot turn key car starts instantly thats all i want.
I don't want to see things like 'system check' and other assorted irrelevent messages displayed, i'm not going into orbit just popping down the road a few miles.
There are one or two new cars we deliver that can be an absolute PITA with these things (BMW one of several exceptions, always trouble free) and we can be slotting the blasted breeze block in and out of the dashboard several times before the vehicle accepts the thing.
Obviously these cars are in delivery mode, but it does make me wonder when they've had a few salty winters worth of salt thrown around the gubbins what joys owners may have for the future, yes luddite mode again folks..;)
In fact one particular prestige car if the machine doesn't like the key for some obscure reason will lock the key it doesn't want in place for 15 minutes before releasing it then accepting it without question, that'll be fun down the line of ownership.
I'd be worried if swmbo had a keyless go, she slings the keys anywhere when she gets home and it's hunt the thimble time, if she had KG she'd bury them in the depths of her handbag (the tardis) and they'd never be found again and i'd have to take her handbag instead..now apparently my preferences are under question enough here (thanks to AE) without carrying round a handbag..;)
Funny i remember how modern cars with ignition keys that started the car seemed when i was a lad, as the older more boring motors had a start button/pull.
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I'm firmly with GB in the PITA camp. The key lets me switch on or off as much or as little as I want, so that if I arrive home and something I'm listening to is at an interesting stage I don't want to miss, I can stop the engine and go on listening. The button-start Verso won't let me do that; I have to stop everything and then reactivate the electrics with the button. That's fiddly if I'm listening to the radio; if I'm using the iPod interface it's quite likely to twist the 'Pod's little knickers and make me go through the fiddly reset procedure before I can use it again. All so some Toyota designer could fantasize about working for Aston Martin.
And if you look inside the little block that dangles from the Verso's keyring, what do you find? An old-fashioned metal key, of course, which I still have to pull out if I want to lock the glove box, or the doors without setting the alarm.
Curiously the equivalent model to ours in the new Verso range uses an ignition key.
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I`m looking forward to *your* book GB ;-)
" Tales from the transporter"
(a story of manufacturers scrimping and rust on the nether regions when brand new)
Seriously. It would be very interesting to hear more...
All the best!
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" Tales from the transporter"
You'll have to wait 1 to 2 years till (the good Lord willing) the gaff is paid up, they'd lynch me...after that i'm out of it for good, it's not the job it was, too many young dynamic experts that arn't dictating how the job should be done to chaps that have been doing it 30+ years problem free.
Apart from that i don't have The Masters' (thats you) way with the glorious language of our fathers.;)
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I remember sitting in a van with my cousin back in the early seventies after he had serviced it for a friend. I think it was a Thames or possibly a Bedford, but it had a seperate starter button on the floor by the seat. We spent the best part of the afternoon trying to start it and had to give the battery a quick charge at least twice in between checking ignition and fuel goodness knows how many times to try and find out why it just refused to fire up.
After turning the air bluer and bluer as the hours ticked by he finally discovered the ignition key had been in his pocket the whole time, the starter being able to turn without the ignition on but obviously without any spark at the plugs.
Edited by Webmaster on 28/09/2009 at 01:54
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An early attempt at keyless ignition Robin ?
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After turning the air bluer and bluer as the hours ticked by he finally discovered the ignition key had been in his pocket the whole time the starter being able to turn without the ignition on but obviously without any spark at the plugs.
Reminds be of one time I changed the points in a Commer van. The engine would turn over but would not fire. Checked the HT leads, pulled off the cap and checked the points, nothing wrong but it still would not fire. I was scratching my head wondering what on earth was wrong when I realised that something in my back pocket was sticking into my hip. The rotor arm of course.
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i was a lad as the older more boring motors had a start button/pull.
My '67 S-Type had a button. Wouldn't call that boring. Ignition on one side of the cigar lighter and starter button on t'other. Perversely the car preferred the engine to be turning first and then the ignition to be switched on. I managed to thumb the button and turn the ignition on between my first and second knuckled fingers.
The family Citroens both need keys, thank goodness.
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My '67 S-Type
I'd have given me eye teeth for one of those, still would.
A small garage at Chelveston Norhants had an ex Met Police white one years ago, how i drooled over that one careful owner motor.
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Can see some advantage in being able to turn the engine then intorduce fuel/spark after a second or so, aircraft fashion, to get the oil moving.
These modern systems seem however to be just a gimmick which, like the leectric handbrake remove a piece of mature proven technology with something that will come back to bite the third or fourth owners and quite possibly write of the whole thing before it hits a decade on the road.
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"oh dear starter buttons ban them - work of the devil"
The Laguna was convenient, and worked flawlessly every time
More displays of luddism on here I am afraid. When are you lot going to be dragged screaming and kicking out of the 1950's
I love the "more electrical connections comment" What do you think the key has to start the car? more extra electrical connections is what.
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"....screaming and kicking out of the 1950's."
The 1950s was when - for convenience - the ignition key first did duty as the starter, gradually replacing the separate pull or push switch. It was so obviously convenient that it became universal.
I agree that if you have keyless entry, then a button is going to be more convenient than having to insert a key, which you can keep in your pocket / handbag. But what many of us think completely pointless is having to insert a key and then push a button: this is the product of stupid stylists who think it's 'cool'. The Honda Civic and facelifted Mini are two examples I can think of.
Much as SWMBO loves the Minis she's had, the latest a convertible, there's no doubt in my mind that the new dashboard layout is less convenient then the one she had on her first. As well as the need to insert the key (which looks like a deformed tadpole and has tiny lock and unlock buttons) and press a separate starter button, it also has the silly BMW indicators control, and this has infected the wipers which have the same action.
Edited by Avant on 28/09/2009 at 00:02
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luddism on here I am afraid. When are you lot going to be dragged screaming and kicking out of the 1950's
Never, bumface.
My 1953 Bentley had a big chrome starter button. I miss it to this day. The loudest noise it made was the click of the relay. Then you heard this distant murmur.
Do you mean they have brought them back into the post-flared-trouser era? Wonders never cease.
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>Do you mean they have brought them back into the post-flared-trouser era? Wonders never cease.
a good idea is a good idea., regardless of how old it is.
The old way. Its dark, you cant find the key hole because its hidden down the side of the column and its small. You fiddle away, find the hole, turn the key, keep eyes peeled on the glow plug light, wait till it goes out, turn the key and start the car. Put on seat belt and drive away.
New way
Open door insert card in easily found illuminated slot, press button once. Put on seat belt, car starts on its own, drive away.
Tell me thats not progress. Old ideas, good ideas, coupled with new technology are a good idea.
Now get back to your cocoa.
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New way.. Open door insert card in easily found illuminated slot, press button once.
Ignition on my Mazda6 is lit but could do it blind folded. Iginition on step-sons Proton Compact (1999) was lit too.
So if this is a problem of illumination then that's one thing. Not convinced myself.
One thing I do wonder. With a car that will open with near-proximity of key... how near is near. I keep my keys upstairs in the office. In a straight line it is maybe less than 20 feet.
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One thing I do wonder. With a car that will open with near-proximity of key... how near is near. I keep my keys upstairs in the office. In a straight line it is maybe less than 20 feet.
Thats probably near enough to find your car missing one day!
once i drove a keyless car with the card in my colleagues pocket.. he was in another car about 20 feet away, i didnt realise until we were out on the open road - car kept running even though he was 1/2 mile behind me at some points.
NO WAY would I own a keyless car!
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>>Open door insert card in easily found illuminated slot, press button once. Put on seat belt, car starts on its own, drive away.
You mean it won't start until the seat bealt is fastened? My habit is to start the car, then fasten the seat belt while the oil gets circulating. I don't want a car that thinks I'm feeble-minded.
Where's my cocoa...
Edited by Manatee on 28/09/2009 at 07:44
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This links nicely with my thread on Stop / Start, a starter button would be ideal in traffic if you push it to stop the engine and push it to start again, retaining control though not having to fiddle with the key.
A much better solution than Stop / Start IMO, empowering the driver rather than engineering down to the lowest common denominator.
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I suspect one of the original reason for starter buttons was concern over keys breaking when twisted.
We serviced a 1970s American two-door, might have been a Ford or a Chrysler.
It had a chromed ring around the ignition barrel and two slots where the shoulder of the key would sit.
The effect was that when starting you twisted the ring, rather than the key, although of course the ring would not twist unless the key was inserted.
No stress was applied to the key.
A UK Ford Prefect we serviced had an ignition switch operated by a small key and a separate starter.
I was going to say button, put you pulled, rather than pushed, so I suppose it should be called a knob.
The symbol on the end of this knob was that of a starting handle.
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How does the steering/gearlever lock operate on keyless set-ups or don't they have them?
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How does the steering/gearlever lock operate on keyless set-ups or don't they have them?
They do, via an electro mechanical solenoid
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You mean it won't start until the seat bealt is fastened?
No it starts when its ready, even if you havent fastened your belt.
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The plastic grip ring thing is quite common on US cars; most of the Fords and Mazdas I've driven over there have had one. Tends to make for a smaller key to put in your pocket, but this was back in the 90s, before everything had a transponder key, which is bulky by nature.
Quite why an ignition key should be more likely to break when turned than any other I'm not sure; isn't turning what keys in general do?
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It seems that car designers have to invent or reinvent something utterly bonkers - something utterly, utterly counter-intuitive - from time to time just to show Management that they are actually at work doing something. Automatic handbrake and keyless ignition are two examples that spring to mind. Automatic lights and wipers I am not bothered about, but why mess about with crucial safety features just for the sake of change??
Just like manufacturers of DVD recorders, mobile phones and countless others, every car manufacturer seems to have a slightly different system (Repeat the mantra "We will not standardise, standardisation is a BAD THING; our system is invariably better"...) and I have driven cars which automatically jerk the parking brake on, others which automatically apply the brake when you switch off the engine...and others which do neither. The parking brake release may be a pull or push operation; it may be centrally placed or on the driver's side. Some cars are consequently banned from use by driving schools and in the driving test. Sometime soon there will be one which only responds to the first three bars of the William Tell Overture. Stop the planet, I want to get off...
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one which only responds to the first three bars of the William Tell Overture. Stop the planet I want to get off...
off Silver?
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The system on my Lexus LS is generally OK, with a mixture of keyless and a traditional "knob" (no witty remarks please).
Walk up to the car with the key about your person and touch the handle and the car unlocks. Get in and you have a knob to turn like your oven at home. You go through the normal stage as if you had the key in there i.e. one turn is electrics, next turn starts the engine. You can even put the key in the knob if you really want to and pretend. Switch off you just turn the knob to stage 1 to keep the elctrics on or fully off and you get out the car. To lock you press a button on any of the door handles.
So a good mixture of both. I can't understand these new BMW's where you insert the key into the dash, then press a start button. Surely one or the other would be fine.
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My Beemer has one, and it works fine once you know how to use it properly. Put the fob into the hole and the radio and iDrive come on. Press the button and the ignition comes on fully. Press the brake pedal and press it and the engine starts. I suspect give the location of it, it's a lot more difficult to hotwire the ignition.
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My Beemer has one and it works fine once you know how to use it
Good grief - that's better than just turning a key??
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I never said it was better than a key - I just described how it works. I have no particular preference - as long as it does the job it was designed to do and it doesn't break then I'm quite happy.
If I had to hold down eight buttons at the same time as pressing the start button with my nose then I might have an issue with it.
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If I had to hold down eight buttons at the same time as pressing the start button with my nose then I might have an issue with it.
:-)
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Hey you guys wait till you have to press alt/ctrl/del then select start/stop/restart.
Mind that would be after it says "car did not stop properly last time would you like a safe start, a cold start, warm start or checkengine"
Edited by Altea Ego on 28/09/2009 at 15:09
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also wait until you have a message "do you really want to turn left?" with the options "OK" & "Cancel" - everytime you signal to turn.
or does a "Reboot" all of a sudden when you are travelling at 70mph.
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I cant ewait till the car says "you performed an illegal operation" and stops, or it stops with a message "out of system resources"
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I might get confused unless it follows the Microsoft procedure of pressing start to stop.
I would expect another message re other users so I must then consult SWMBO.
In future an expensive optional extra might be a retro feature - an ignition key.
Edited by henry k on 28/09/2009 at 16:42
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As a matter of interest, do you shut the car down by pressing 'start' as you do with Windoze?
If so I would suggest the rot is well established, and I hope my aunt doesn't get one - she rang me three weeks after I set her up with a new PC to ask how to turn it off.
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...she rang me three weeks after I set her up with a new PC to ask how to turn it off...
I think one of the reasons Windows takes so long to start/shut down is Microsoft expects you to leave it fired up for months if not years on end.
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>>The system on my Lexus LS
Toyota issues US safety warning
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8281981.stm
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