My Mondeo estate will need four tyres soon. As some of you will know I do a fairly hefty mileage to some relatively far flung places and with a load on mostly. I have never bought winter tyres though in all my years of hithering and thithering. It just occured to me that if I were to try them that half past Octoberish when I guess my tyres will be due would be an ideal time to do it.
I know some of you are fans of winter rubber. Who's for and who's agin and would those in favour recommend any particular makes ?
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 26/09/2009 at 20:37
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We're just about to go out so here's my tuppence.
As your car is not likely to be a very long term motor (not suggesting it won't be but i'm assuming here) it would be an expensive venture to equipe yourself with a full set of good quality winter specifics.
I would suggest a set of Vredesetin Quatrac 3 all seasons if available in your size (check Camskills?), they are half normal half winter tread, very chunky very deep tread.
I'd trust Vred's 100% and have a set of proper dedicated wintrac extreme's for the pick up..the grip is astonishing in the cold in all weathers.
I put a set of Quatrac 2 all seasons on the daughters 106, they are wearing well and she finds good grip in all weathers, still available i believe.
Dedicated winters will wear quickly in the warm weather, so are an expensive all year use choice.
I also purchased a set of Nokian WRG2 for the old MB this year, i decided on another 5 years from the old girl so that should see those tyres out with luck.
The grip offered by quality winter tyres is amazing, i shall always try to use them or all seasons.
Got to go the lovely lady is waiting..;)
Edited by gordonbennet on 26/09/2009 at 20:50
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If you were changing your usage and going to colder climes for any length of time I would say yes, but for high mileage UK usage, no.
They are a softer compound which comes into its own below 7C but as mentioned above wear out quicker above freezing, downside is 4mm and you should replace if using in snow/ice.
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Have to say, I've never really felt deprived without them despite an occasional transalpine winter run and fairly regular trips to northern Scotland and across the Pennines. I suppose I am just curious to know if they would be of any noticeable benefit while I am obliged to get my wallet out anyway.
Interested to learn that they are a softer compound. From a position of ignorance I'd have thought a harder compound would cut through the slippy stuff better ? I'm sure someone can explain that though !
Any views on just putting them on the driven ( front ) wheels ?
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Have to say I've never really felt deprived without them despite an occasional transalpine winter run and fairly regular trips to northern Scotland and across the Pennines. I suppose I am just curious to know if they would be of any noticeable benefit while I am obliged to get my wallet out anyway.
They are noticably gripier and even on a wet road you'll be off like your tail is on fire from the traffic light GP :)
Interested to learn that they are a softer compound. From a position of ignorance I'd have thought a harder compound would cut through the slippy stuff better ? I'm sure someone can explain that though !
You want some give in the rubber over ice. Hard compound will not cut or grip. You also want to go narrower. I run 225/45x17 in summer and 215/55x16 in winter (obviously not on the same rims).
Any views on just putting them on the driven ( front ) wheels ?
Don't ! You'll have a grippy front end and a loose rear end...for want of a better turn of phrase.
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There is no doubt that thinner winter rubber when temperatures fall are beneficial. I have traded in the 4X4 Sorento this spring for a Kia Ceed with 17" rims and low profile rubber. Purely cosmetic but they look good. Come the winter they will be a liability particularly in snow when they will be next to useless.
I have thought about sourcing some steel rims and winter rubber. But its a gamble. The last few winters have been relatively mild and in my area you can count on one hand the number of days when the 4x4 was at its best (and it wasn't that bright as it had wide road rubber on) or winter rubber would have got me through.
So maybe £300 all in for a few days then taking up space for the rest of the year with them potentially being redundant when you change the car.
Also depends how many miles you are liable to do and how sympathetic your employers are when you don't turn into work when the Police advise you "not to make a journey unless its absolutely necessary".
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All good stuff chaps, interesting.
Storage or longevity wouldn't really be an issue as on my mileage they would be due for replacement come the Spring anyway. As for my boss's attitude to not turning up, well, he's very strict about that sort of thing as I don't earn him any money if I don't. ( He's me BTW ) Don't fancy the loose back end bit much.......
;-)
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on my mileage they would be due for replacement come the Spring anyway.
>>
Yeah right ! Try an early Christmas pressie from Santa if you're doing 40k a year.
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It's a thought re the Santa angle but then It'd be the working out how to respond economically to the "well, if your car needs winter tyres why doesn't mine ?" ensuing debacle....
Whereas, if I simply choose to go and get some they will remain unremarked upon being black and round.
;-)
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I bet you won't get the ones you want just like that Humph, my Nokians came in from Germany in 2 days though.
If you buy one of the best winter tyres made eg Nokian WR (mine are different, WR's are the real deal), judging by some reports on 'tyretest' you may well still be running them 40K later, ISTR they come with much greater tread depth than normal.
By the way mrs gb will be whittling when are her winters are going on by about the end of Oct and suggesting it's too cold for them to come off in March, so expect similar..;)
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...my Nokians came in from Germany in 2 days though.
Why ? Had Finland gone on stike ? :)
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>Why ? Had Finland gone on stike ? :)
I wondered why too, got them at a good price so i suppose someone made a bulk purchase, amazing the amount of worldwide transport of goods now.
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Those tyres have an excellent write up from Volvo XC90 users.
I personally use Goodyear UltraGrip 7+ but as I only have two wheel drive I'm allowed.
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:)
SWMBO has the purse strings :) BUUUUUT How will she react in December when you go back please Miss, can I have some more ?
Edited by gmac on 27/09/2009 at 00:50
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I wonder what would happen in the UK if you had a bump (say someone runs into the back of you) and you have winter tyres on 3.8mm of tread
Nothing i would imagine as winter tyres arn't a legal requirement here, but interesting point.
Nokians still have the tread depth impregnated into the tread and i notice the lowest depth is 4 mm, quite a handy thing really and no arguing.
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I should reply to the above posting. I questioned what would happen if you had winter tyres fitted in the UK which were below the European recommended 4mm minimum tread depth.
I the re:read the orginal posting and changed my posting. Just to clarify.
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I use them every year, and am often glad of them. There are a surprising number of folk here in the far north who don't bother - and it is not unknown for them to find themselves stuck when there is snow on the road.
I use Gislaved Nordfrosts myself. They seem fine. Whether something else would be better, I don't know.
For a more scientific approach to choosing winter tyres, look at the ADAC tests: tinyurl.com/ycyx6ue
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I wouldn't Humph, its the 40k a year bit, thats 20k across the winter of which much will surely be on the motorway and good quality conventional tyres will be better in that environment in all but compacted snow, a rare occurance on a motorway. Falkens - superb value.
How many miles on the Mondeo now then?
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Well it had a bit of a rest from work duties while I had the Signum so it didn't rack up quite so much last year but now it's back out of retirement it's up to 170k. Still chugging on regardless.
This is all probably a ball of chalk anyway. I imagine the scenario will actually play out in much the same way as usual. One day soon I'll notice that I'm down to 2mm. I'll call my local indy and ask him to source some tyres in my size from a brand I might have have heard of and ask him to go easy on the calculator.
I'm just curious really to know if I'm missing something but as many have said and indeed in my own experience I've never felt deprived without them before. It's probably just that bloke thing of feeling slightly tempted to mess with my car !
Thanks for all the interesting replies.
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I have Pirelli winter tyres on one car and Goodyear on the other. Both excellent and very confidence inspiring on cold and wet or icy surfaces. Last year I got the winter tyres on one car fitted a bit later than I should have done, so there was already ice on the roads. The difference between driving to the tyre place on summer tyres and driving back on winter tyres was amazing. Only disadvantage is that winter tyres are noisier.
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I have used a set of Michelin Pilot Alpins on both our Citroen C8 and recently departed Merc E320. Will be fitting them to our C4 Grand Picasso when the weather demands it. They give excellent grip and seem to last just as well, despite the clearly softer compound of 'rubber'.
Incidentally, the handbook for the C4 Picasso talks of a grille muf for the car when temperatures are below 10 Celcius (the type of temperatures when winter tyres get going), so I suppose I should get one of these? Or maybe just fit the one from my 2CV??
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Seems that most of the makes of winter's coming up have good reputations for quality products in the winter field.
Does this suggest that those who go to the expense of winters take tyres in general more seriously than others, or is there something else going on.
Though i'm of the opinion that if you intend a reasonable period of ownership then there is little cost save a set of steels or used alloys for those tyres, whilst the winters are in use there is no wear on the summer set, and it has the bonus of keeping your nice summer wheels salt free.
The far east makers have jumped on the winter tyre market and in general their tyres are somewhat cheaper with notable exceptions, but those makes are not commonly used...yet, is anyone here using one of the far east makers winetrs by any chance.
Just out of interest did winter tyre users here actively seek a particular make and model of tyre.
Meself i had a short list of good tyres (not necessarily snow tyres, but general winter) and waited until one of the various outlets came up with the right combination at the right price, it is a little time consuming but can save a lot of money.
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Now if there was a manufacturing standard to wheel hubs, stud pattern and offset one set of rims and winter tyres could be used across a range of vehicles thereby making it a worthy consideration to have a set in the garage for the winter.
Perhaps helping to reduce winter collisions. Now there's a thought! Better than compulsory leather wearing on motorcycles?
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Silly question maybe but........Do winter tyres grip less well when temperatures rise than "normal" tyres?
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I always thought that winter tyres are softer and therefore would quickly wear out in warmer weather. Don't "normal" tyres suffer from reduced grip due to the rubber hardening in the colder temperatures.
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Bang on there rj70. Cold weather normal tyres go hard thereby reducing their grip. Winter tyres stay soft at lower temperatures. Its a trade off between optimum performance at average temperatures and wear.
The downside is that winter tyres get too warm and wear quicker.
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... a bit like the judgement call in F1 on which tyres to use. Although the soft/super-soft compounds change between tracks to take this sort of thing into account.
If I lived somewhere where temperatures were very low in the winter I'd have a second set of wheels/tyres. But the NW doesn't get that cold for long enough does it.
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>>Silly question maybe but........Do winter tyres grip less well when temperatures rise than "normal" tyres?
Apparently they do. But there is not a lot in it. I only use winter tyres because they make a big difference in snow. When the tread is down to less than 4mm, they become a lot less effective in snow. At that point, I cease to use them in winter, and use them in summer. I've never noticed much difference in grip levels compared to my normal summer tyres.
(I don't find winter tyres significantly noisier than summer tyres either.)
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(I don't find winter tyres significantly noisier than summer tyres either.)
I find winter tyres to be quieter, actually.
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I ran a full set of Vredestein Quatrac 3 last year on my Octavia. Mainly because I drive on a lot of muddy roads, farm and forestry tracks rather than because of cold weather. 195/65 r15 cost £58 each fitted.
Fronts wore out at 12000m so not too bad. Braking, grip and steering all greatly improved under poor conditions. Deep muddy farm tracks no problem. I even went through the 9m Dalbeatie Forest rally stage after about 80 rally cars in minus 8 temp. These tyres were excellent. Fuel consumption slightly down as one would expect (55 to 52mpg) no difference in road noise. They shed deep water on roads very well.
These are not a full blown winter tyre but do bear "M+S" markings. A mid way cold weather tyre ideal for UK climate.
Downside is Vredestein not always easy to find. Try local independant.
Edited by loskie on 28/09/2009 at 19:16
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