Change of plea to Guilty late on in the proceedings, for serious offences....
wonder what the sentences will be?
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/824187...m
Edited by Westpig on 07/09/2009 at 19:33
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it's unacceptable to not do your vehicle checks every day. i have to and i report minor faults and i would decline to drive a coach if i found a major fault.
if they haven't been doing their checks and maintenance they will and should have the book thrown at them.
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..wonder what the sentences will be?...
I wouldn't be holding my breath were I a member of the victims' family.
Not the worst case of its type in the world, guilty plea, unlikely either guy will have much of a record.
The driver will get three or four years and the owner a bit less.
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I'd be surprised if it was less than a year inside for a double manslaughter, and more likely several years.
But it's interesting that they did actually face a charge of manslaughter. That an unusual charge for motoring offences, allegedly because juries used to be reluctant to convict in such cases, which is why there is more usually a charge of causing death by dangerous driving.
I wonder if it's because the crashed vehicle was a PSV that the more serious charge was brought?
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The coach company owner could not be charged with a driving offence because he was not driving.
The driver's position is more interesting.
I suspect 'manslaughter by neglect' stems from the fact it was his responsibility to check his vehicle was roadworthy before setting out.
But his driving in the time leading up to the crash was far below the standard of a competent driver, hence death by dangerous driving as well.
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The driver's position is more interesting. I suspect 'manslaughter by neglect' stems from the fact it was his responsibility to check his vehicle was roadworthy before setting out.
That makes sense.
But isn't a bit anomalous that a PSV driver who fails in such checks faces a manslaughter charge, whereas a car driver in similar circumstances would likely just face a motoring-specific offence?
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...But isn't a bit anomalous....
Yes, although a car driver who took to the road with no brakes and killed someone could be charged with the same offence.
Rightly or wrongly, a higher standard is expected from a PSV (called something else now, isn't it?) driver.
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it's now PCV (passenger carrying vehicle) changed from PSV (public service vehicle) to try to stop people converting buses and coaches into campervans.
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I was slightly confused by the photograph where the coach seemed to have gone through the traffic lights at some speed - the bottom of Staxton Hill has a big gravel runoff pit for brake failure incidents.
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I wonder what the position of the mechanics responsible for maintaining that coach is.
I was once driving a car that nearly crashed because of faulty maintenence by a garage once (I won't go into details but they failed to refit vital safety components correctly and I completely lost control of the car) Luckily it stayed in a straight line, on the road and didn't hit anything, but the outcome could have been very different.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 07/09/2009 at 22:24
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I wonder what the position of the mechanics responsible for maintaining that coach is.
The coach company concerned is a small outfit and so I'd imagine that they would send their coaches to an independent local garage for safety inspections and maintenance. I work for a small coach company with three full-size coaches and a couple of mini-coaches and they are safety-inspected every six weeks without fail by a local commercial vehicle engineer. I also have to carry out a walk-round check before I leave the yard and if I find what I (and not my boss) consider to be a serious defect, then that coach is going nowhere.
The owner of the company concerned in this awful tragedy deserves everything that is coming to him. There is no excuse at all for skimping on maintenance, especially on what looks like an old coach. As far as I can make out, it was a pre-1990 Bova but I'm happy to be corrected. Anyway, my point is that maintenance needs to be even more strict on a old vehicle such as this.
As for the driver, I'm probably a little biased being a PCV driver myself but there is an awful lot of pressure put on drivers - especially those working for small companies - to take out vehicles that are not quite 'on the money'. I know of drivers who have been told they will be sacked if they don't drive a coach that they know to be defective. In this economic climate, what are they to do? Jobs are not easy to come by at the moment. Please don't get me wrong here; I am not defending this sort of attitude, just illustrating that it does happen. All too often sadly.
The above does not change the fact, though, that the driver's skills were very sadly lacking in this case. If the coach is the type and age that I think it is then he could have used the manual gears to slow the vehicle. Obviously, this would not have stopped the vehicle completely but it may have mitigated the effects of the collision.
Edited by Badwolf {P} on 08/09/2009 at 11:58
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Interesting comment about juries NW. Here, manslaughter charges are becoming a bit more common, and juries are entering guilty verdicts. Mainly against the more extreme "boy-racer loses control and kills someone" cases. We do have the charge of dangerous driving causing death, as you seem to have, which is the usual one as you comment.
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im sure a coach operator told me a few months ago that its illegal to use coaches for hire and reward ie take money of people etc in this country once they attain 10 years old?
badwolf?
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I reckon for this tragedy the driver will get something light like an 18 months suspended sentence for his dangerous driving and the operator a hefty fine. I don't think there was anything in the story about the brakes actually failing and the faults mentioned could be found in any vehicle that you want to put under the microscope.
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Other reports indicate that the braking distances had been extended for some time and they had not corrected the fault.
Also that the driver was unable to stop on the hill and passengers weret old to brace.
Not going to speculate on sentence but Judge made it fairly clear.
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im sure a coach operator told me a few months ago that its illegal to use coaches for hire and reward ie take money of people etc in this country once they attain 10 years old?
That's not the case, bellboy. Up until fairly recently, the firm I was working for ran a Bova like the one in the accident which was 24 years old. Maintained well, and inspected and serviced regularly. The only reason it was taken off the road was that the dreaded tin-worm made repairs to the chassis uneconomical.
The person you were talking to may have been alluding to an age restriction that certain local authorities may put on a vehicle operating one of their contracts, but it certainly wouldn't be a legal requirement - more a contractual one. I used to work for a company that had contracts with two neighbouring local authorities. One had a 15 year age limit on vehicles and the other had no age limit. Guess which local authority's contracts I preferred driving on?
Edited by Badwolf {P} on 08/09/2009 at 16:48
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