Something that is very obviously a hired car, so other drivers would not know what you normally drive.
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I would've thought that "classless" could mean several things
1. You don't jump to conclusions about who's driving it when you see one = X5
2. Large number of buyers could afford one = small Hyundai/Kia
3. People don't care if they are seen in one or not = Micra
A car that fits the bill is one that doesn't imply you are either wealthy or skint. they are bought by people who just want a car, without falling prey to marketing or image concerns
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Got to be the Golf / Golf GTi - real quality to the man in the street. As JC (Clarkson that is) said - its all the car you'll ever need.
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Id agree that the original Mini was a pretty classless car. I know I made a generalisation about the BM Mini and fair enough its a good car, but by the sheer fact that it is massively expensive for what it is, it is a premium item, not a car that appeals across the board.
Im not really sure that the Subaru being for country folk only is correct - I see as many in town as I do out. People do seem to hang onto them longer in the countryside, but that is because the richer folk, the old money that I know owns them, simply dont spend money on cars very much.
That said, Ive also seen quite a few Foresters doing the school run and they dont look like they have ever seen mud in their life.
Id still stick firmly to the Fiat Panda. I think it is all the car most people will ever need in one form or another. When you see a Panda, you dont really have any clue about who might be driving it - could be anything from the district nurse to James May. Oh and teh green wellies bunch rather like them aswell from what ive seen.
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How about the MPV, midi or full size? You - all right, I - see plenty of them laden with bikes and canoes on the dockside, bound for the 'Daw-doyn'; but because the 'premium' makers don't do them, it can't be an aspirational purchase, so you buy one because it suits your needs.
All right, that's an example, when HB asked for a definition. But I think were getting close: 'classless' means you can choose one for what it is, without the risk of one set telling you you're slumming it or, conversely, another thinking you're getting above yourself.
My ageing Volvo probably isn't classless, although it's closer than some. I do a middling-to-senior job and feel comfortable parking it at work in a way I probably wouldn't with, say, a BMW 7 or, for that matter, a Micra. But a VP who works in the same building locks a 1998 Golf each morning, and if I had one I'd probably feel happy to do the same. This may be blurring the line between class and status but it seems to fit.
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My ageing Volvo probably isn't classless although it's closer than some.
Volvo says you're not a prole. The middle classses drive them, and so do the toffs, but not the oiks.
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""My ageing Volvo probably isn't classless although it's closer than some."
Volvo says you're not a prole. The middle classses drive them and so do the toffs but not the oiks. "
But then up here there are quite a few older ones that are used as tradesman's vans/cars
I think that an older estate is probably the most classless car; I remember one of the local independent schools had a real mix of cars, with everything from new-ish Merc 500SL to Montego estates.
I think that a BMW/Audi tends to be driven by someone who is aspiring to something they may not be.
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In this country there's no such thing as classless. But the picture has become very scrambled, so blurred as to be indecipherable in general, a bit less so sometimes in highly specific situations. Perhaps it always was more like that than we tend to think.
Car makes and models used to be associated with rather broadly-drawn social classes on three or four levels, but they aren't these days. A lot of the makes that used to compose that picture have vanished. The remaining ones, foreign-owned almost exclusively, are all effectively 'classless', if the term has a meaning. Only a foolish person would imagine that possession of a particular car, temporary or permanent, could confer any meaningful status on them, whatever naive passers-by might think or fantasise.
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Lexus? Seem to be driven by all manner of types and ages these days.
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A Rolls-Royce: The Queen drives (or is driven in) one, lottery winners drive them & so does Surallan. What wider social (class) diversity could there be?
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A Rolls-Royce: The Queen drives (or is driven in) one lottery winners drive them & so does Surallan. What wider social (class) diversity could there be?
:-)
But the middle classes don't drive em. Rollers are for toffs or for proles who get rich.
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>>But the middle classes don't drive em. Rollers are for toffs or for proles who get rich.
The middle-classes don't drive them because they can't afford 'em! Nothing whatever to do with their class being middle. The middle-classes also tend to loathe & despise that which they can't afford & those that can. Rather a handy definition middlle-classness that , even if I do say so myself.
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The middle-classes don't drive them because they can't afford 'em! Nothing whatever to do with their class being middle.
I don't think it's just about money; it's also a don't-flaunt-it mentality. Whether that's a good or bad thing is another matter, but it seems to me that a middle-class lottery winner is more likely to buy a retreat in rural France (or wherever) than a roller, whilst the working-class person may go for the roller.
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>>I don't think it's just about money; it's also a don't-flaunt-it mentality.
At the risk of going O/T - the middle-classes just flaunt differently, "Young Hector & Jemima
were awfully lucky to get into The London Oratory, & we've found a fantastic little man to look after the garden, he's a real treasure.."
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My Pug 405 estate is classless, but not in the sense that the OP intended. A car driven by all classes - Golf GTi.
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Hilaire Belloc did one on this which I will quote in full in case someone hasn't seen it.
The rich arrived in pairs
And also in Rolls-Royces;
They talked of their affairs
In loud and strident voices
(The husbands and the wives
Of this select society
Lead independent lives
Of infinite variety).
The poor arrived in Fords
Whose features they resembled.
They laughed to see so many lords
And ladies all assembled.
The people in between
Looked underdone and harassed
And out of place and mean
And horribly embarrassed.
There are some excellent Nicolas Bentley illustrations to perhaps th first edition, perhaps a later one. Very fine drawing of jolly snub-nosed working-class family in ill-fitting formal gear in a snub-nosed Model T Ford.
But that was in the nineteen-twenties. This is now. People of sophisticated upbringing may sometimes be able to stick a class label on someone by deciphering their demeanour, discourse and dress style, but never from their car. Not for sure anyway.
I think the Belloc piece is called 'Garden Party'.
Edited by Lud on 07/09/2009 at 19:01
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If by "classless" you mean that it can be driven by a duke or a dustman, then the answer has to be the original Land Rover.
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A classless car is any car driven somebody who doesn't give a tuppence what anyone else thinks, regardless of its make.
Amazing to read some posts here, the class system really is alive and kicking..well in some peoples minds anyway..;)
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Roomie was suorisingly classless - I know of a few round here who bought one. Don't confuse class with wealth - two different things entirely.
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Land Rover Defender, as long as it doesn't have alloy wheels or metallic paint!
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>> My ageing Volvo probably isn't classless although it's closer than some. Volvo says you're not a prole. The middle classses drive them and so do the toffs but not the oiks.
I am a university educated but working-class oik. I have an old Volvo estate.
Am I a prole or not?
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The only true test is your aspiration - are you happy and do you look up or down at other people for various reasons.
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Classless car is any car you use a a means of transport, usually excludes all BMW, MB, Volvo, which have too many pretensions, most of which are unfounded.
Classless cars- Ford eg Focus, Skoda, Suburu, Toyota, etc.
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In fairness the original 3 series is pretty classless - opposite where I'm staying now (a well to do place) a G plated 3 series lives outside a very large house, been there for at least the last twelve years, it has reached classless status.
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I live very close to a road considered to be the town's "millionaire's row". It seems to me that the most common car in most driveways is an M-reg Rover 200. So that's my nomination for this award.
A couple of "nouveau" types have recently colonised the road with their silver Mercs and Audis. They do seem to be trying too hard.
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Classless cars- Ford eg Focus Skoda Suburu Toyota etc.
No matter how hard I try (believe me, I'm trying) I simply cannot get my head around the concept of a Subaru being 'classless'. I won't tar all drivers with the same brush, but to me I'm often seeing an Impreza WRX and the mentality demonstrated frequently seems to be "hey, look at me, I've got a VROOOM VROOM!!". Maybe one too many Smokey and the Bandit films viewed as a child? Then the servicing costs seem to catch them by surprise?
...Sorry, but it just seems to factor in way too high in terms of chav behaviour being demonstrated around these parts; the driver seemingly nagging for attention in a manner akin to a Yorkshire Terrier that refuses to stop barking. Then they might step out of the car, dressed in white track suit bottoms.
For classless, I'd probably nominate a MK2 Golf, or any factory spec/non-molested 3 Series of a similar age. Or, if MINI owners seem to be viewed as trying to be part of the 'in crowd', maybe something like a Nissan Note!
Edited by schneip on 08/09/2009 at 11:36
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