If she cannot read and obey speed signs then 1) she deserves all she gets , maybe she should not be driving and b) get her eyes tested. c) take away her car.
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The last 3 posters are not being all that helpful are they. Mrs Nsar is no different to many, many other drivers...and her hubby has posted on here for advice.
My advice would be to get her some advanced driving lessons, pronto. Fixed cameras shouldn't be that difficult to spot...and the increase in vision she'll gain, will help her in all other aspects as well, which will make her driving far more safe, both for herslef and others.
As for longer journeys, in unfamiliar territory where let's face it camera vans are often parked around corners, on verges etc...I find the Tomtom to be invaluable. You can change the warning note, so for example fixed cameras are one warning sound, Specs are another and mobile camera vans something else.
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A 30 mph speed limit is a 30 mph speed limit - being helpful or not will not help anyone she runs over or runs into - goodness help her if it's my cat.
If hubby requires advice mine is to take her key's off her.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 30/08/2009 at 01:00
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A 30 mph speed limit is a 30 mph speed limit - being helpful or not will not help anyone she runs over or runs into - goodness help her if it's my cat.
Your cat will die if she driving at 38 or 30.
Cat wandering on road = dead cat
Its an old equation but one thats valid.
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...Cat wandering on road = dead cat...
I was once driving far too fast through east London in the early hours.
A cat ran under the car and was hit by something underneath because I heard a 'clunk'.
Looked in the mirror and saw the cat run around in circles a few times before shooting off towards the kerb like, er, a scalded cat.
The poor thing was obviously knocked senseless and I might have seen its death throes, but it did disappear out of my sight under its own steam.
That's a maximum of eight lives left, then.
Edited by ifithelps on 31/08/2009 at 17:34
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Is there a problem with her sight - long sight ok but short sight a problem so that speedo is not clear?
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Perhaps Mrs N is, as I imagine one or three of the contributors here are, actually an enthusiastic driver ? Maybe, rather than installing a warning device the more positive approach would be to encourage her to take some form of advanced driver training, perhaps even some form of motorsport training, track skills etc that sort of thing ?
Point being, if she likes hustling her car along maybe she would also enjoy learning some form of advanced car control ?
My wife has always had a good affinity with vehicles. She can and will drive anything from a modest hatchback through sportscars to 7.5 tonners with a high degree of skill.
She did though used to speed a bit too much although she was never caught, and did in my view anyway leave her braking a bit late sometimes. Anyway, some years ago she decided to take an IAM qualification for the heck of it really. she was, as I said, already a very skilled driver but the course turned her into one of the best I know. She is not hidebound by the practices of the training but her roadcraft is excellent and she enjoys her driving even more.
Edited by Webmaster on 30/08/2009 at 01:13
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My fiancee is a bit of a speed merchant and, quite frankly, she sometimes scares me. It's innappropriate speed too quite a lot of the time. She'll happily zoom along at 42 in a 30 but then mimse at 45 in a 60.
I've tried gentle hints, as she's already had one fine and points but she doesn't like criticism and takes it rather badly. So now, rather than risk getting told off, I'll just keep quiet and let her get fined and get points on her licence again. Of course, if she does it'll be my fault for not warning her about the camera/speed trap...
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The late Mrs P drove like a banshee - she got done only once (ironically in my Skoda and not her GTi) - the majority of women I've known are fast drivers and less scary than some men I've driven with. Difficult to know what to advice to the OP, VAG speed warning devices do help !
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Blimey, whatever happened to real men !
Square up to your Mrs and talk to her like a real man, avoidance is the cowards way out of things. If your wife (or husband) is doing something wrong then discuss the matter face to face with them, if you can't then book an appointment with Relate for relationship counselling and sort out your marriage cus that's where the problem is actually rooted.
Whether it be male or female if someone can't take or accept correction then buying them a TomTom or some other toy or whatever isn't going to help one bit. An advanced driving course sounds like a good idea but as the person(s) concerned haven't got the hang of basic driving skills and awareness I doubt that would work, their attitude issues are at the root of the problem and those are what need addressing.
Edited by MikeTorque on 30/08/2009 at 00:11
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... if you can't then book an appointment with Relate for relationship counselling and sort out your marriage cus that's where the problem is actually rooted. ... >>
;-)
Everyone advising Nsar on this matter should bear in mind the second para of the following post by Nsar:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=51...3
"My wife is a barrister of 20+ years experience and sits as a part time judge"
>:0
Edited by jbif on 30/08/2009 at 00:56
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Bet you were popular in school.
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It depends if the difficulties are caused by actually spotting the speed restriction signs or sticking to the speed limit whilst in it it. I was advised, on an advanced driving course, that the best way to control car speed is to use 3rd gear in a 30 limit and 4th in a 40 limit. It works.
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..."My wife is a barrister of 20+ years experience and sits as a part time judge"...
Old enough, and supposedly, wise enough to know better.
Mind, barristers, like doctors and jockeys, are not known to hang around on the roads, so Mrs N is pre-disposed to drive quickly.
She'll have good access to legal representation, though, as the points stack up.
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What part of the speed limit does Mrs Nsar not understand?
Being a barrister and part time judge for 20+ years she should know better.
Perhaps a holiday from driving, enforced by the DVLA will help her keep her speed down. Thank goodness its only speed cameras she has problems slowing down for, I pity the children in your area they will probably be next on her list. "Sorry Officer, he was doing an impression of a speed camera at the time and I dont slow down for them".
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 31/08/2009 at 01:46
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I'm always happy to see other people making voluntary tax payments.
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Interesting thread this, as it could have been written for swmbo, who's driving used to put the fear of the Lord into me.
She's from Greece originally and that natural quick no nonsense aggressive approach to driving is always there.
Her driving changed a lot and for the better when we bought her a car she really loved, the present MB coupe which i now run.
Until then she'd had a succession of horrible company cars and such things, all small nasty things (no offence but i too dislike buzz boxes intently), and driving was just a chore to be done as quickly as possible.
Once she had the MB which was very nice being a 6 year one owner example, she discovered the pleasure of having enough easy driving power to spare, and she used it well to get past many mimsers but her licence became all important and she found herself being much better in town and far more observant for the camera's etc.
Maybe an alternative course of action here could be the purchase of something very tasty that the good lady Nsar really would not want to lose.
Of course she may well have the car of her dreams already (and being in the legal profession has stacks of loot to throw around) in which case i'm talking out of me back side as usual, but it's a thought..;)
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Surprised no-ones mentioned telling her to use a lower gear, that way its easier to keep to 30 and secondly she won't like the noise if she goes faster!!
And another vote for IAM or similar...
Also, if she drives with the radio on, turn if off... its surprising just how much concentraion people lose when listening to the radio, no matter what sort of music/chat is on.
Edited by b308 on 30/08/2009 at 09:44
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At the risk of offending any feminists, this has reminded me of an observation I've made about where I live. It's a modern Barratt/Wimpey housing estate where most families have at least two cars. I'd noticed that driving round the (main) roads within the estate, the cars which are travelling fastest are invariably MPVs driven by women of about 25-40 yrs old. I'm not a slow driver but they but these women travel much faster than I would in those conditions. I get the impression they have no concept of the speed they are actually travelling, and if you asked them how fast they were going they would perhaps say "about 30" when they are often moving at around 50. I'm also not convinced that they even realise that the limit in such conditions is 30.
Older women drivers are ok, they just bumble around. Even the young/middle-aged men in their BMWs and Mercs don't reach the speeds which these young mothers get to.
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Why would Feminists be offended ?
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Some interesting posts here and thanks to those who have answered the question.
The others who took it as an invite to post sanctimonious gibberish implying that they have never broken a speed limit...happy to have put a smile on your face, as you have for me.
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I use a Road Angel Pro Connected. A good piece of kit and the database is always up to date. There is a small subscription, I forget how much.
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What's her accident record like? If she's had a few then it is observation or that she just isn't aware of her speed and may other things. Recent info from admiral showed that 82% of all drivers speed. When checked with blackboxes it was 97% or so so that anyone that says they never speed is probably a liar! And quite possibly a mimsing menace.
What was the road like that she got done for 37? How do you find her as a driver?
If she's done two courses and is still being prosecuted then I don't think anything you do will make much of a difference. Is the speedo in the car she has at the moment hard to see or is it just that she's looking at the road more and isn't bothered by the actual numerical speed and tends towards the 'feel' of an appropriate speed?
I did a ridedrive session that was conducted by a police driving trainer. If you can occupy her with more observation and more mental process in 30 limits then she'll find it harder to speed as there will be too much going on to process it all at 40mph.
There is also a degree of randomness to speeding tickets as even people with the same behaviour can have radically different outcomes. Some just get lots of tickets and others avoid them altogether. A mathematician looked into it all and said some people could end up being banned a few times in their driving career and others would avoid all tickets even though their actual driving behaviour was very similar.
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Surprised no-ones mentioned telling her to use a lower gear that way its easier to keep to 30 and secondly she won't like the noise if she goes faster!!>>
I think I did - about 5 posts ago.
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>> Surprised no-ones mentioned telling her to use a lower gear I think I did - about 5 posts ago.
You did, I missed it, oops!
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Being a barrister and part time judge for 20+ years she should know better.
Does she handle speeding cases with equanimity and even-handedness?
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I believe a lady friend of ours drives similarly to Ms Nsar. I haven't ridden in her car myself, but SWMBO has on many occasions, and commonly reports travelling at 10+mph over whatever the limit is. Even though both are approaching 70 it seems that smiling sweetly and pleading ignorance has avoided severe consequences more than once. But recently some real points were added to her licence - not before time IMHO. Too late to change behaviour I suspect.
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Too late to change behaviour I suspect.
In my case, my fiancee has been driving for around 15 years and has had one speeding conviction. I firmly believe that she has absolutely no intention of changing her driving style, no matter how many convictions/bans she racks up. However, I don't believe that her refusal to obey speed limits stems from arrogance or bloody-mindedness. She has little or no mechanical sympathy - changing gears roughly, not steering smoothly, putting the gearbox into first whilst coasting up to a junction etc.
Having said that, though, she has never had an accident in all that time. And no, she hasn't seen plenty in her mirrors...
It does worry me, though, that when the law of averages finally catches up with her, it will be a biggie due to the increased speed at which she drives.
Finally, to the chap who suggested that I (and others) acquire some balls I will just say that I would rather let my fiancee get on with thing as she sees fit and have a fairly harmonious relationship than be in the right and be at each others' throats all the time. If that makes me some sort of lilly-livered pansy then so be it :-)
Edited by Webmaster on 31/08/2009 at 02:20
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Apologies for activating the swear-filter - I wasn't aware that the words I used would do so. I shall say three Hail Marys immediately...
Sorted it
Edited by Webmaster on 31/08/2009 at 02:20
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Given that we, the General Public, through our elected representitives make the law, then why not campaign for all speed limits to be raised by 10 MPH.
Would that not help everyone and disolve the OP's problem?
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Two solutions:
1) Let it lie, and wait for the ban. I can guarantee that three months without a car will focus her mind. Refusing to be used as a taxi might accelerate the process.
2) Move to Durham. I don't especially want another driver who ignores speed limits around here, but she will at least not get caught by a speed camera.
Edited by jase1 on 30/08/2009 at 15:19
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...Move to Durham...
jase,
The Durham force does have four mobile speed camera vans which are out somewhere in the county every day.
Also, the chief who was set against fixed cameras has now retired, so that could change.
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I was on another (non-motoring) forum where we happened to be discussing speed limits.
I conjectured that at least people with a lot of points on their licence would be more likely to obey the limit to reduce the risk of disqualification.
One driver replied that I was talking nonsense because he'd often had lots of points on his licence but he still habitually broke speed limits just the same. Hopefully he's now banned from driving!!!
Edited by Sofa Spud on 30/08/2009 at 16:20
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The Durham force does have four mobile speed camera vans which are out somewhere in the county every day.
True enough, but human beings will always exercise discretion.
I personally *always* drive religiously to the speed limit +/- 10% tops around town, but treat the 60s and 70s more liberally depending on road conditions.
A speed camera would doubtless get me. I've passed a couple of police cars at an indicated 80 (on a 70mph d/c) and they've not batted an eyelid.
A game I play with the 40mph everywhere mimsers is to overtake them safely shortly before the 30 zone is due to come into force. The look on their faces when they are forced to drive at an indicated 31 through a small town.....
More people should do the same with them!
Edited by jase1 on 30/08/2009 at 16:41
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" a womans work is never done" ...proves they cant multi task....any one who struggles with speed limits deserves a spell in the sin bin, maybe 6 months for starters
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QUOTE:...""A game I play with the 40mph everywhere mimsers is to overtake them safely shortly before the 30 zone is due to come into force. The look on their faces when they are forced to drive at an indicated 31 through a small town.....""
You're just putting yourself through more trouble for no effect and the 'mimsers' probably think 'haha, he didn't realise there was a speed limit ahead'.
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The effect, if nothing else, is that the village/small town in question is spared another brain-dead 40mph idiot speeding through.
I always ensure that they are indeed a mimser rather than a cautious driver before proceeding. The way I do this is to allow them the freedom to travel at their own speed through the first conurbation. They don't get to do it a second time.
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Might be a good idea to concentrate on your own driving rather than worrying about the perceived deficiencies of others
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Waino and b308 have asked the key question - why does she speed. Without that knowledge it's impossible tp get an answer. Lack of observation or trouble recognising speed gain can be tackled by training or technique (I occasionally use 2nd if I want to keep well undr thirty).
If she doesn't care or knows and chances it then I guess the points will mount up.
Edited by Bromptonaut on 30/08/2009 at 21:53
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rather than worrying about the perceived deficiencies of others
How do you manage to stay behind them between conurbations, I can't help wondering?
Any proper driver would be long gone by the second conurbation.
Perhaps that's what these queues really are, one possible mimser and a lot of self-appointed driving prefects seeing whether they exceed the speed limit by a derisory amount the next time they go into a conurbation.
What an utterly carp way to carry on.
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How do you manage to stay behind them between conurbations, I can't help wondering?
Methinks you do try too hard to wind people up, Lud. I can call to mind several conurbations connected by roads where it can be impossible to overtake when traffic becomes sufficiently dense. Surely you don't overtake mimsers no matter what?
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Surely you don't overtake mimsers no matter what?
Of course not. But this exchange is about jase's claim that he overtakes 40mph-whatever-the-limit type mimsers just before the next conurbation to lead them (and anyone else behind who likes to get a move on) through the next conurbation at an annoyingly conservative speedometer 31.
As so often in this website, an admission that a busy lady sometimes drifts too far over the limit through impatience or carelessness has evoked quite a few posts that are not only a bit sexist in tone, but seem to be reasoned from the infantile premise that drivers who exceed speed limits, even 30mph speed limits imposed when cars took twice as long to stop in the dry and three times as long in the wet, are dangerous criminals who ought to be got off the road for everyone else's sake.
People were quite a lot more grown-up when I was young. It's a sad, silly world we seem to inhabit now.
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Very true, m'Lud. I suppose that the comments we all make on here are nearer to a conversation in a pub than anything else - but by being written down they appear to carry more weight than perhaps they deserve. There isn't much on here from any of us (me included) that would make the letters page of a newspaper.
I'm not rubbishing the forum - merely saying that we need to be careful not to upset each other by over-reacting. Good sense like yours helps us keep our feet on the ground.
It can often help to re-read the original post and try to answer the question or comment therein: in this case personally I have a lot of sympathy for Mrs N - you have to be forever looking for changing speed limit signs instead of keeping your eyes on the road - and I'd say that the suggestion of an advanced driving course is much the best. Mrs N sounds like the sort of intelligent professional who would get the best out of such a course.
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Lud, Avant - thanks for that reasoned, civilised exchange of views.
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Remove all mirrors from the car. Women use mirrors only for make up.
Without mirrors, she would be forced to look at speedo which sometimes work as mirror on bright sunny day.
}:o)
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Why do we have speed limits at all?
If your answer is something along the lines of improving safety, then they must be obeyed.
It matters not if you are man or woman, young or old.
The OP's wife is careless and needs retraining and convincing that she is not above the law.
End of story.
If however you do not agree with speed limits, then campaign to have them raised or abolished entirly (possibly replaced with advisory signs) and judge every 'accident' on its own merit.
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Why do we have speed limits at all?
We have them to maintain road safety. However, they are set for the worst possible scenario e.g. pouring with rain, thick fog, kids on way to school, etc....so......at other times the limits can be set quite low, a necessary system in the absence of variable limits. (Same thing applies with road signage e.g. solid white lines, which are now appearing everywhere).
That ought to mean that transgressing those speed limits ought to be more serious at some times and less so at others, albeit on all occasions it would be against the law. Punishment for those transgressions ought to be set with regards to all the facts. Minor infringements could easily be a verbal warning, if a human rather than a camera were to be dealing.
40 mph in a 30mph limit COULD be no worse at 0500 in the morning than a 31mph transgression in a 30mph limit at 0830 on a school day.
Each set of circs would have to be looked at on their merits.
people saying/implying 'all speeding is dangerous' is clearly disingenuous
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to add to my previous. Those that are automatically slating Mrs N may be correct...
however they may not.
She might be 'driving to the conditions' and be driving perfectly acceptably, albeit above the posted limit. She may be concentrating on other things, such as road hazards and not religiously and constantly checking her speedo.
From the other angle, many British drivers are hopelessly unaware of what is really going on around them, (including I suspect, many of the pious brigade) hence my recommendation for Mrs N to have some advanced lessons, in case that were to apply to her.
As I don't know her and her circs, it would be pointless to presume.
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SQ
Each set of circs would have to be looked at on their merits. people saying/implying 'all speeding is dangerous' is clearly disingenuous
And that attitude is why we used to have the safest roads in the world. Sadly some people are incapable of understanding when exceeding a speed limit is a technical infraction and when it is actually dangerous. Going too fast is the same as running out of space. Speed, risk and space management is one of the finger points of driving and has to be learnt through experience and teaching.
Speed limits are a guide to hazard density. The lower the limit, the more hazards. There are many round here that have no correlation to road layout. 30 mph dual carriageways. 60 limit nsl roads with 90 degree bends and adverse cambers which turn into 40mph wide, safe carrieageways. It's no wonder people routinely ignore speed limits when they're made such a pigs ear of!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 31/08/2009 at 20:59
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And that attitude is why we used to have the safest roads in the world. Sadly some people are incapable of understanding when exceeding a speed limit is >>a technical infraction and when it is actually dangerous. Speed risk and space >>management is one of the finger points of driving and has to be learnt through >>experience and teaching.
I wholeheartedly agree
>>It's no wonder people routinely ignore speed limits when they're made such a pigs >> ear of!
Again 100% agreement. I see it as a gross dumbing down. Few people nowadays make decisions for themselves. They don't drive down a road and drive at a speed they're comfortable at, that is safe...then re-assess, downwards as well as upwards...Big Brother Britain has already made the decision for them. Woe betide the day something unexpected happens, they're like lemmings.
It explains why some do 40mph everywhere, they don't have to think.... yet will think the person overtaking in the NSL bit is unsafe....having just done 40mph through the village where all the hazards are, having noticed none of them?
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Don't mention the 40mph everywhere bunch!!! They are the worst. 40 ish miles an hour is the thumb in bum not paying attention speed. You just know someone travelling at the speed is just off with the fairies.
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Don't mention the 40mph everywhere bunch!!! They are the worst. 40 ish miles an hour is the thumb in bum not paying attention speed. You just know someone travelling at the speed is just off with the fairies.
Exactly my point. As far as I am concerned, speed, or not paying full attention are transgressions. Put the two together and you have a dangerous driver. It is out civic duty to do anything we can, legally, to wake such people up.
Getting past them and driving at the speed limit through a town (before speeding away when safe to do so) should hopefully give them the kick up the ars they need.
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I see it as a gross dumbing down; few people nowadays make decisions for themselves
I take your point, WP. But the 'decision' many drivers take is to ignore the advertised limit; perhaps partly because now it changes so frequently in some parts.
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>> I see it as a gross dumbing down; few people nowadays make decisions for themselves I take your point WP. But the 'decision' many drivers take is to ignore the advertised limit; perhaps partly because now it changes so frequently in some parts.
Therein lies the problem. Local Authorities keep changing limits willy nilly and are completely ignoring the guidelines that limits should not be less than 600m in length and they should not be used to deal with a single hazard. Numpties round here have put 30s on roundabouts between 40mph sections of dual carriageways. Nottingham numpties are worse as they have put 30s in between stretches of NSL dual carriageway! They're completely ignored so those of us that generally respect limits find they cause road rage if they drive down that road strictly in accordance with the law.
Prime example is another local road. NSL SC. A few junctions. Tight 90 degree bend down a hill. Road then becomes wide and straight and some chump has stuck on a 40 limit. No sense whatsoever. Same chump has stuck on a tiny 30 limit for the upcoming roundabout which is about 20M long!
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Teabelly, I don't understand the point you are making. If a speed limit is a guide to hazard density, then that makes sense only if the hazard is constant, which it isn't - weather, day/night, time of day (traffic density) etc are all variables, but a speed limit set for a stretch of road is invariable (apart from some exceptions eg stretches of M25 for example).
Edited by Nsar on 31/08/2009 at 19:52
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Teabelly I don't understand the point you are making. If a speed limit is a guide to hazard density then that makes sense only if the hazard is constant which it isn't - weather day/night time of day (traffic density) etc are all variables but a speed limit set for a stretch of road is invariable (apart from some exceptions eg stretches of M25 for example).
Some hazards are constant eg width of road, number of junctions or tightness of bends. Others are variable hazards which are present at all times eg traffic density and weather. What speed limits are supposed to do is to give a rough idea that anyone can travel down that road at that speed, most of the time without too much bother. Slow signs indicate that there is a feature ahead which means you should probably be under the limit. People that have just passed their test and those that are unfamiliar with an area need a rough guide as to what is appropriate. Ultimately appropriate speed choice is down to skills and experience and getting a feel for the vehicle. It is too nebulous to be an absolute number on a sign. This is why I don't think ultimately slavishly obeying all speed limits necessarily makes you a better driver or ignoring them makes you a dangerous driver. There are many that bimble along well under the speed limit that are legal but still a menace.
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Some people have these very legalistic attitudes to speed limits and would rather mimse than risk trouble. That is their right.
Others haven't. Even a 40mph Mr Magoo has his rights. And in a silly 30 limit, and there are many such, the fellow is showing the right spirit even if for the wrong reasone.
Follow the carphound through Reading at his speedometer 40, then blast past at the first opportunity. What's wrong with that? You'll be in Chippenham by the time he clears Marlborough. And of course you will be a bit ahead of these chaps who want to make Mr Magoo slow down for no good reason.
Just a thought. I feel a lot of the material on this subject is knee-jerk. Can't abide that sort of respectability. All right for some no doubt, but not for me.
Edited by Lud on 01/09/2009 at 01:35
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I feel a lot of the material on this subject is knee-jerk. Can't abide that sort of respectability. All right for some no doubt but not for me.
Can you explain that remark? How is knee-jerking respectable?
I'd have thought respectable was long carefully considered responses, delivered slowly with lots of qualifying clauses, exceptions, may-be's, possibly this, possibly that, etc.
Surely knee-jerk is instant, unconsidered, possibly prejudiced, predictable?
Respectable = obey the limit and follow the mimser.
Knee-jerk = to hell with this, blast past.
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CP: if you found my post confusing then I must apologise. If on the other hand you are just indulging in some nit-picking after a quick trawl through the dictionary, then you have my full permission to go forth and multiply.
:o}
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Some people have these very legalistic attitudes to speed limits and would rather mimse than risk trouble.
How is sticking to the limit mimsing, Lud? According to your own definition of mimsing its driving without any awareness of what is going on around you... I quite often keep to the speed limit, but I'm very aware of what is going on around me, and I'm not mimsing!!
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What disturbs me here is that one of those supposed to uphold our laws (part time judge) disregards them.
When is the OPs wife going to stand by her accepted principles that we do not have to comply with the law and give up her post as a part time judge. Her current position is morally wrong.
I am not surprised by the split between those who don't see speeding as important and those who see it as a mortal sin, I am closer to the second than the first. How many of the first group would think the same about burglary - and there are plenty who do not see this as wrong!
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I am not surprised by the split between those who don't see speeding as important
Do you mean speeding as in going faster than the speed limit, or going faster than is safe? Problem is that it's not often that the 2 are exactly the same. Not so difficult to define burglary.
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>>When is the OPs wife going to stand by her accepted principles that we do not have to comply with the law and give up her post as a part time judge. Her current position is morally wrong.<<
I'll assume that the "not" in your first sentence is just you getting in a bit of a muddle over what you actually think, otherwise what you've written doesn't make sense.
Mind you, having read the rest of it.......
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Yes - second sentence should have read "do have to ..."
The point about burglary is that we cannot choose which laws we comply with and those we don't (especially as a Judge) - we should comply with them all, otherwise where is the line drawn depends on who draws it - you, or I, or Charles Manson!
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The point about burglary is that we cannot choose which laws we comply with
Personally I wouldn't have a problem with a judge who had done 71 on an empty straight motorway in broad daylight, assuming that comes under your definition of speeding. But I would be more concerned if they were a burglar :-)
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a judge who had done 71 on an empty straight motorway in broad daylight assuming that comes under your definition of speeding. But I would be more concerned if they were a burglar :-)>>
exactly....in other words use some common sense
it can by a bye law offence to walk on the grass....and no doubt there must be at least one member of the judiciary who's thrown an apple core out of the car window
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I quite often keep to the speed limit, but I'm very aware of what is going on around me, and I'm not mimsing!!
Likewise b308. Not only do I quite often adhere to the speed limit, but I often find myself mimsing willy-nilly, obstructed by the waddling hordes in front.
These are the people who 'would rather mimse than risk trouble'. There's nothing respectable about choosing to drive along a relatively safe and unobstructed 30-limited road at a speedometer 25, perhaps a real 22 mph. It is vacant, cud-chewing, infuriating behaviour.
If anyone here identifies with this group and thinks I am being rude, they should understand that I can be a damn sight ruder, and quite honestly it's what they deserve.
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I forgot to add: speed awareness courses are often recommended in a patronising way by people here when someone gets done for speeding.
It is my very strong impression that the sort of fine speed awareness you need to drive briskly in town without being nicked these days is a very closed book to a lot of slow drivers.
Mimsers on the whole have utterly lousy speed awareness. It's why the carphounds mimse: to be on the safe side given their very coarse material perceptions.
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It is vacant, cud-chewing, infuriating behaviour.
However well-intentioned your views may be, Lud, I'm afraid they may come across as being a bit Toad-like. I hope you aren't really saying that any driver unwilling or unable to keep up to the speed limit on all roads should be prevented from driving? There must be some people whose only means of travel is a car (no public transport) but don't feel confident at 60mph. I too find those 'infuriating' but we have to make occasional allowances.
Edited by Andrew-T on 01/09/2009 at 15:23
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Does Lud drive an X5?
... leaning on the extra-loud horn, main beams on, veins standing out on temples, rude gestures, screamed oaths?
Of course I do Waino. Clearly you have understood me perfectly from my many posts.
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. I hope you aren't really saying that any driver unwilling or unableto keep up to the speed limit on all roads should be prevented from driving? There must be some people whose only means of travel is a car (no public transport) but don't feel confident at 60mph. I too find those 'infuriating' but we have to make occasional allowances.
If someone failed to keep up to speed limits reasonably on a driving test then they'd fail. Therefore they are not fit to be on the roads. Doing 40 in an NSL 60 for no good reason would be a fail. Doing 25 in a clear straight 30 stretch would also be a fail if there was no reason for them to be going that slowly. It's one thing getting up to 60 on a good straight bit then slowing down for corners or other hazards. It is quite another getting up to 40-45 and just dawdling along even when the road is straight and wide with no junctions.
If you can't drive at 60 in a 60 limit when there's a clear stretch of road then you shouldn't be driving.
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If you can't drive at 60 in a 60 limit when there's a clear stretch of road then you shouldn't be driving.
In that case, TB, I should be banned from the motorway - I cruise at 60±5. And we all know that behaviour during the test is rather different from several years later.
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In that case TB I should be banned from the motorway - I cruise at 60±5. And we all know that behaviour during the test is rather different from several years later.>>
I also cruise at somewhat less than the limit - but don't worry, Andrew, once petrol reaches £1.50 a litre (i.e. soon), most of us will be slowing down.
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once petrol reaches £1.50 a litre (i.e. soon) most of us will be slowing down.
Like the way we've slowed down as petrol has gone from less than 50p per litre to over £1? :-)
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Like the way we've slowed down as petrol has gone from less than 50p per litre to over £1? :-) >>
When petrol rose from 0.85 to 1.25 last time, there were plenty of observations on here reporting a slowing down of traffic. And that was before the recession hit. It'll be interesting to see at what price level the effect becomes permanent. ;-)
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less than 50p per litre
Ten bob a litre!
We all had kittens when it looked as if juice might one day reach ten bob a gallon, like in France...
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A good percentage of vehicles are limited to 50, or even 40 on NSL single carriageway roads, TB, but I'm sure that you are aware of that!
I don't agree with you at all re the 60 in a 60, there's nothing wrong in doing 50 or 55, and I doubt that you'd fail a test for doing so, but what Lud is alluding to (and I agree with him) is that if you choose to travel at less than the NSL then you should be aware of whats going on around you and if you are gaining a tail, then pull over and let them past - a mimser doesn't do that though!
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I had a very good explanation of Lud's theory on an 'advanced' course.
the explanation was that you should adjust your speed according to the rate at which you handle hazards.
If you 'mimse' along at 40 in a 60 limit you are very probably handling the rate of hazards very well ( I hope!). As you then mimse into the 30 limit - still doing 40 - your handling of hazards probably becomes very suspect.
It was this explanation more than anything else that slowed me down in the 30s. The rate at which a driver must recognise hazards in some 30 limits can be very high indeed - typically much higher than on a 70 MPH dual carriageway.
So while I'm not going to suggest that all drivers should go as fast as the limit allows, I do suggest that they should adjust their driving according to their perceived hazard rate.
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SteVee,
I'd agree with most of that...other than I have a theory that many 40mph mimsers DO NOT have a good handling rate of hazards. My impression is the mimse, because it's a safety zone for them i.e. they don't have to think too much.
If a driver adjusts his/her speed for the circumstances, then they're actively assessing risk, whereas pootling down a road at a set speed 'because i always go down there at that speed' does not give me confidence the driver is all that aware of other things going on.
Same goes for some 55mph motorway drivers, middle laners, etc
b308 sums up for me the true answer. If people wish to drive slower, then good luck to them, but have some regard for others that do not. A good driver would facilitate the progress of others, too often nowadays a mimser will actively try to prevent the progress of others...and i'm not sure why. Having just come back form the Scottish Highlands, there are great big signs everywhere saying 'allow overtaking', all the locals do it every time, yet the thick or ignorant English tourists ignore it....(p.s. i'm English).
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People don't pull over though! Ones that reach 50 ish are usually ok. It's the ones that are dawdling at less than that and braking for every corner and mimsing into the middle of the road the moment there is a straight stretch that are the real problem. I think the cut off point is around 10mph below so you generally have to get within that amount of whatever the limit is with suitable conditions. If you drove around 30s at 20-25 rather than 30 I'd bet money you'd fail. 60s at less than 50 I think you'd be failed unless you had a very good reason for not going at that speed. Most of the driving school cars I see are pretty much at the limit on most roads when it is clear so I'd assume deviation from that would lead to a fail. I'm sure there must be an ADI on here somewhere that would know for certain. Learners are now being taught to keep moving through junctions rather than stopping, looking and joining so clearly part of the test is aimed at making sure you don't needlessly inconvenience others.
Motorways are different as there are 3 lanes so you can get by those choosing to go along with the HGVs. On SC roads it is hard to get past them safely so I think needlessly holding up other people is selfish. If someone wants to go faster than me I move further toward the inside so they can see to overtake. It doesn't impact on my life to let someone 'queue jump' so I don't see why others shouldn't offer the same courtesy.
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When I took my HGV, I was told by my instructor that the examiners prefer to see 32 rather than 28, and that they did fail people for failing to make adequate progress.
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When I took my HGV I was told
where did you take your test?
the examiners want to see an understanding of general road speed limits ( regular street lights = 30mph for example)
they also want you to show an awareness of speed limit change signs (did you see the two foot diametre sign displaying 40?)
make good progress allowing for road, traffic and weather conditions was what i was tought and have been tested on for 4 seperate tests.
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>>where did you take your test?
Does it matter?
I acted on the advice, and passed.
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examiners prefer to see 32 rather than 28, and that they did fail people
Heh heh. Straight from the horse's mouth. And that is for a large unwieldy truck.
Mimsers and mimser-lovers, please note.
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I agree not keeping up to the speed limit where possible is certainly a possible fail on the driving test. Not conclusive evidence, but on my old driving test report, number 14. "Maintain progress by:- driving at an appropriate speed avoiding undue hesitation." That is the one I believe you would fail on.
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