Personal opinion, but I don't think they are a patch on the older ones.
The last one I saw gave the impression that they hadn't actually done the job they were describing.
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I find them useless as they are far too vague. They need much more pictures.
I used the haynes manual to try and remove the window winder of my old Fiesta. Haynes method was really ticky, my mechanic showed me a much easier way.
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I dont think they are as good as they used to be, my mk 1 astra manual is a "workshop" manual which means its quite detailed.
Subsequent manuals however like the one for my ex cars (Laguna, Astra G etc) are just "service and repair" manuals. and are a lot thinner with everything more or less saying "Refer to local specialist" or among them lines
Extract from the faqs of the haynes manual site
"The change from Owner's Workshop Manual to Service & Repair Manual took place in 1993, in response to market research which showed that the Owner's Workshop Manual was viewed (especially by younger users) as old-fashioned and too technical."
But i was teenager when i had my "workshop" manual and thought it was great
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I didnt notice any great reduction in price to match the reduction of information.
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I think it may be that cars have become more resistant to hands-on interference from owners, rather than Haynes manuals becoming less good. I got one for the Chrysler Cruiser (on line from the Haynes website, an expensive way of doing it rather surprisingly) and it doesn't seem good at all. But as I say, I think it's the car's fault mainly.
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I agree Lud, who in their right mind is going to dismantle a common rail high pressure pump?
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Although I like a really technical manual, I think the Haynes approach is, generally, the correct one. In many cases, giving people detailled information on acceptable crankshaft bearing clearances is utterly academic, because most people will not need anything more than basic servicing and brake pad replacement information.
I'm lucky, because for my W124, I can refer to this useful web page;
www.ps2cho.net/downloads/MB%20CD/W124/Index/605_60...l
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I had a brief conversation recently with one of the technical support guys who works for Haynes.
From this I learnt that each manual has a page limit. So they have to edit ruthlessly to ensure they fit within the limit to keep the cover price down.
Therefore, anything too complicated or specialist gets kicked out.
They also don't cover the less common engines (e.g. V6s) for the same reason.
Also, that they used to produce shared manuals for engines that were too rare to feature in the model specific manual, but were common enough due to sharing across models and manufactures. They no longer do this because they got accused of forcing people to buy two manuals.
The problem is, if they put that information into the model specific manual, the cover price would have to go up to benefit a small number of readers, which couldn't be justified either...so they just can't win!
In the end, those of us with the less common engines get nowt because of the whining of a small minority...who effectively shoot themselves in the foot by moaning about separate manuals, when that's the only way Haynes can do it...
Edited by TheOilBurner on 20/08/2009 at 16:09
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i like them. if i spill oil on one it is cheaper to replace than my laptop. i can throw a haynes manual in the boot and have it when i need it.
does anyone else who is buying a car with a haynes manual in look through it to see which pages have been used?
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I have Haynes manuals for both my Mondeo and SWMBO's Saxo, and on several jobs where I needed to refer to the book the information was just plain incorrect, involving a lot more work than was nescessary.
It makes me wonder whether they actually do a full stripdown anymore, and instead rely on a bit of educated guesswork.
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It makes me wonder whether they actually do a full stripdown anymore....
When I needed to replace the Vehicle Speed Sensor on my Focus, the Haynes manual had me taking off the wheel and removing the arch liner. When I did this, all you could see was the chassis and it gave you no extra view or access to the VSS. They clearly hadn't done this job.
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When I needed to replace the Vehicle Speed Sensor on my Focus the Haynes manual had me taking off the wheel and removing the arch liner. They clearly hadn't done this job.
>>
Ditto adjusting the alternator drive belt on the Saxo, the book said the wheel and liner had to come off. I accessed it from under the car without even needing the jack, job took two minutes.
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i use haynes manuals if stuck
they might not be as good as they were but are better than nothing
(i didnt look at the link)
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I still buy them, but don't use much more than the ( dumbed down) wiring diagrams these days.
Out of idle curiosity I looked at the fault finding suggestions for erratic idle ( see what I did there ;-) ) in the Astra G manual, it seemed to have been copy /pasted from a Viva manual or something, there were all sorts of fairly improbable suggestions - stuff like spark plugs - but no mention of much more likely culprits like sticky IACV, gunged up throttle body or faulty EGR valve.
Edited by SpamCan61 {P} on 20/08/2009 at 21:11
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I wonder how many people sheered off the dashboard mounting lugs on a Mk2 Puntos central console - by pulling it `down` instead of towards you?
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Retain the captive spring.
TWANG, goodness , that nearly had me eye out!
There's a list of them somewhere.
Edited by Webmaster on 21/08/2009 at 02:49
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Much cheaper and better to get a maintanance CD from Ebay or similar.I got one for the Punto because as yet there is no Haynes manual available since most GPs are still under warranty.
IIRC, it(the disc), cost less than a fiver and is perfectly adequate for most DIY jobs.
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Much cheaper and better to get a maintanance CD
one 20 quid haynes + spilt oil = another 20 quid haynes
one 5 quid cd and a 300 quid laptop + a spilt oil = an expensive mistake.
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one 5 quid cd and a 300 quid laptop + a spilt oil = an expensive mistake.
that's what a printer is for!!!
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I have Haynes manuals for both my Mondeo and SWMBO's Saxo and on several jobs where I needed to refer to the book the information was just plain incorrect involving a lot more work than was nescessary.
They are very fond of removing the o/s front wheel on the Mondeo aren't they. Three jobs done where they say it's essential but proved not to be. Probably also part of the procedure for changing wiper blades according to them.
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i think you are all being very hard on haynes
as i said
its not as good as it was but we are talking modern cars
i had a right fiddle of a job on a modern car yesterday and no haynes to refer to so a 2 hour job took 4
its easy to slag from behind a computer rather than under a car dribbling oil
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Haynes: This is a snug fit.
Translation: You will skin your knuckles!
Haynes: Rotate anticlockwise.
Translation: Clamp with vice grips then beat repeatedly with hammer, anticlockwise
Haynes: This is a tight fit.
Translation: Not a hope in hell matey!
Haynes: As described in Chapter 7...
Translation: That'll teach you not to read through before you start, now you are looking at scary photos of the inside of a gearbox.
Haynes: Pry...
Translation: Hammer a screwdriver into...
Haynes: Undo...
Translation: Go buy a tin of WD40 (catering size).
Haynes: Retain tiny spring...
Translation: "Blimey! what was that, it nearly had my eye out"!
Haynes: Press and rotate to remove bulb...
Translation: OK - that's the glass bit off, now fetch some good pliers to dig out the bayonet part.
Haynes: Lightly...
Translation: Start off lightly and build up till the veins on your forehead are throbbing them re-check the manual because this can not be 'lightly' what you are doing now.
Haynes: Weekly checks...
Translation: If it isn't broken don't fix it!
Haynes: Routine maintenance...
Translation: If it isn't broken... it's about to be!
Haynes: One spanner rating.
Translation: Your Mum could do this... so how did you manage to botch it up?
Haynes: Two spanner rating.
Translation: Now you may think that you can do this because two is a low, tiny, 'ikkle number... but you also thought the wiring diagram was a map of the Tokyo underground (in fact that would have been more use to you).
Haynes: Three spanner rating.
Translation: But Nova's are easy to maintain right... right? So you think three Nova spanners has got to be like a 'regular car' two spanner job.
Haynes: Four spanner rating.
Translation: You are seriously considering this aren't you, you plebe!
Haynes: Five spanner rating.
Translation: OK - but don't expect us to ride in it afterwards!!!
Haynes: If not, you can fabricate your own special tool like this...
Translation: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
Haynes: Compress...
.*********
Haynes: Inspect...
Translation: Squint at really hard and pretend you know what you are looking at, then declare in a loud knowing voice to your wife "Yep, as I thought, it's going to need a new one"!
Haynes: Carefully...
Translation: You are about to cut yourself!
Haynes: Retaining nut...
Translation: Yes, that's it, that big spherical blob of rust.
Haynes: Get an assistant...
Translation: Prepare to humiliate yourself in front of someone you know.
Haynes: Turning the engine will be easier with the spark pugs removed.
Translation: However, starting the engine afterwards will be much harder. Once that sinking pit of your stomach feeling has subsided, you can start to feel deeply ashamed as you gingerly refit the spark plugs.
Haynes: Refitting is the reverse sequence to removal.
Translation: But you swear in different places.
Haynes: Prise away plastic locating pegs...
Translation: Snap off...
Haynes: Using a suitable drift...
Translation: The biggest nail in your tool box isn't a suitable drift!
Haynes: Everyday toolkit
Translation: Ensure you have an RAC Card & Mobile Phone
Haynes: Apply moderate heat...
Translation: Placing your mouth near it and huffing isn't moderate heat.
Haynes: Index
Translation: List of all the things in the book bar the thing you want to do!
For Added Haynes Fun:
Go to the first section, Safety First, and read the bit about Hydrofluoric Acid - do you really want the advice of a book that uses this form of understatement???!!?
Edited by Webmaster on 23/08/2009 at 01:55
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I've always had Haynes manuals for the vehicles I've owned and they have been very useful over the years.
But I do have to say that they are not as comprehensive as they used to be.
For instance they no longer describe how to strip down and rebiuld gearboxes, explaining that this is a complex process involving the use of shims and specialist knowledge. Yet there are chapters on removing, stripping down and rebuilding engines, which I'd have thought are just as complex as gearboxes.
So I'm left wondering if gearbox rebuilds have been left out as a cost-saving measure.
So I could add to the brillaint translations in the post above:
Haynes: This job should be entrusted to a specialist as it it beyond the scope of most DIY mechanics.
Translation: We used to cover this job but as a cost-saving measure we stopped doing so.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 21/08/2009 at 00:15
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Humpy - Great Post. I really enjoyed reading that one. Very clever and funny!
Edited by LikedDrivingOnce on 21/08/2009 at 00:33
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i hope humpy isn't claiming this, or should we call him 'papa charlie'
tinyurl.com/mox3mc
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Last one I bought was for Mrs. H's Punto, and it's to the car's credit that I've only had to refer it once, to sort out a jammed door-locking mechanism.
General consensus on the Harley scene is that Haynes manuals are actually worse than useless, because bits of advice conflict with the factory manuals which are widely recognised to be the best. I advise people to use those (expensive but worth it) or at worst use the Clymer manuals which are a decent halfway house between the factory and Haynes.
Biggest problem with Haynes is that they try to cover too much, and this is especially true when you have a vehicle which has a long production span. It would be impossible to fit all the upgrades and detail differences in and still make the book usable and affordable. Conversely, it cannot help Haynes when manufacturers change their models more frequently, as is the case nowadays.
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