I am with PU and one or two others on this. Nothing wrong with Bimmers. There are some very svelte looking ones and some very very quick ones and plenty of good, solid, fairly rapid and safe workhorses.
Of the two I have had brief custody of, one was unspeakable having been abused and the other boring being under-engined. Of course I've driven various others but never a, you know, really suitable one for me. That doesn't surprise me though.
So what if there are a lot of them? Nice quick ones are always waddling clumsily and timidly about in my way, but so what? They have a pedigree.
Personally I think it's a bit over-sensitive to say joy reminds people of Nazism. Any big old German industrial outfit was bound to get compromised in some way during the second world war. Even poor old Professor Porsche wasn't a Nazi. He was just a mad-scientist style engineer who allowed the ghastly Hitler to make a pet of him, a political simpleton actually. But he did time after the war having, surely without his personal knowledge or agreement, had some enslaved workers in one of the many war-output factories he was in titular charge of. His son Ferry actually snubbed the Nazis when they tried to suck up to him.
|
|
Well said Lud, Ford and Opel (owned by the General since 1929) were also amongst those contaminated by nazism, as well as Renault, Citroen and Puegeot, not forgetting Skoda. SEAT was blighted by Fascism in Spain, as well as large number of Japanese makes. Get over it and move on - they have.
Edited by Pugugly on 08/09/2009 at 21:20
|
|
Don't even mention the awful Henry Ford PU, bad cat that one politically, big racist and all...
|
bad cat that one politically
and philosophically with his 'History is bunk' bunk, anti-intellectual carphound who didn't even invent Fordism (cough, choke)
|
|
|
|
When I still had my Joymobile M3 I have to admit it that driving it sometimes aroused sensations exceeded only by those quiet moments I spend with my wife. It's actually difficult to describe how good the M3 driving experience is without risking someone sending this post to Pseud's Corner. Oh, and it had room for 3 passengers and the shopping. A totally amazing car.
To anyone who has never driven a proper 6 cylinder BMW (not the usual 4 cylinder oil burners), try it and be prepared for every drive to put a smile on your face.
|
Thanks Bagpuss, exactly, wouldn't mind a little pootle in one of those...
:o}
... always fancied getting someone to make me a heavily tweaked 328 (classic BMW model you know). But then they brought one out. I suppose 335 or M is the way to go.
Edited by Lud on 08/09/2009 at 21:20
|
|
|
try it and be prepared for every drive to put a smile on your face.
With you all the way. Re. the advertising, part of me thinks that "The Ultimate Driving Machine" just somehow works that bit better than "we make joy". Not sure why. I think the "we make joy" somehow sounds that little bit too flowery, or too generic (couldn't say, a company such as Vodafone have used the same slogan upon the basis of 'bringing people together'. Yikes - someone pass me the sick bag please, I might vomit at what I just typed.
Can't we please just go back to more artistic shots of the cars performing, rather than cheesy smiles from drivers? Come on, BMW. Give us back our "Ultimate Driving Machine" and stop being such a big softie while you're at it! The product can sell itself without us being subjected to vacant grins.
|
By the way, does anyone else think the famous 'kidney shaped grill' looks nothing like a kidney anymore?
Just looks like a rectangle with rounded edges to me.
|
|
|
|
To anyone who has never driven a proper 6 cylinder BMW (not the usual 4 cylinder oil burners) try it and be prepared for every drive to put a smile on your face.
Ah! - But you are assuming that everyone is like yourself! :-)
I ran a 3 litre BMW 3 series for a short while, and you are right - it is an excellent machine.
I respect it as such - but at no time did it ever put a smile on my face. Why should it?
This is why I put the question earlier in the thread, which no one has attempted to answer yet: What is it about driving that induces "Joy"?
Don't get me wrong. I don't doubt the sincerity of any of the posters who have said that they have felt intense pleasure - "Joy" even - when driving their cars. But so far, the only justification offered for their claims amounts to "because I say so". You're all undoubtedly keen drivers, but your literary skills are lacking.
|
I feel sorry for people that don't get a smile out of driving fine automobiles, I feel that they, through no fault of their own, are missing out on one of lives pleasures. :-)
Myself, I loved my old 3 Series Coupe, fantastic car with a silky 6 cylinder engine that wore it's 120K very well. It really did make even quite hum drum drives a little more interesting. My next car will almost surely be another.
Stu - you make a good point, but if it helps to explain why some of us choose to spend a lot on cars like that, it's 'cos we get more pleasure from owning and driving a well engineered car than from a couple of weeks on a Costa and returning to a competent hatchback. My personal lack of kids probably influences that, I can spend it all on me! There's also the category of people who can afford to buy the BMW and not have to make any meaningful sacrifices to pay for it, unfortunately I don't yet fit into that category lol!
I say all of the above as someone that currently drives an elderly Ford Mondeo of course, but then that car gives me a lot of pleasure too thanks to the V6 powerplant, if it wasn't for the engine it would have been binned over a year ago!
|
"What is it about driving that induces "Joy"?"
Depends on the person I suppose - my brother hated driving and avoided it as much as possible until he bought a Golf GTI in which he sometimes "goes for a spin" because he enjoys it (note the last 3 letters of "enjoy"!).
I've not been a great fan of BMs (image?? of the "type" who drive them??) in the past but there are many models that are very enjoyable to drive - they are well engineered, comfortable, respond well to the controls, handle beautifully (ride a bit harsh in some for an old git like me!) have good performance and surprisingly good economy. If you like driving you will enjoy driving them. Same goes for MB, Audi and that Focus ST I drove this afternoon (apart from the economy!!) but couldn't stand the Defender this morning!!. The new Mondeo surprised me - very enjoyable! On the other hand there are cars which do their job in getting you from A to B without being enjoyable.
I had the pleasure of driving a Maserati down from Scotland last week - my colleague who was following me said that everytime he caught a glimpse of me I was grinning like the cat who got the cream! Why ? because it was a joy to drive - and we weren't racing or driving fast, it just seemed like a beautiful piece of machinery.
Model railways? I couldn't care less - but they bring joy to some: same with skiing - I can't see the point but it brings joy to many.
Nothing wrong with BMW saying they bring joy - they do to many, and they do "because I say so", I don't need to justify it, it's what I feel and I don't really see why this means my "literary skills are lacking" - it's just a simple statement of my feelings when driving a particular car .
What I wouldn't give for the joy of owning and driving a Maserati Quattroporte!!
Phil
|
|
MKV Golf GTi was capable of delivering Joy as well :-)
|
|
|
Many thanks for posting that, Phil. It was just the kind of feedback that I hoped that I would get. I certainly don't think that your literary skills are lacking. I slipped that remark in hoping to needle people into a response!
If I understand you correctly, you are saying that an enjoyable drive for you, is when the car that you are piloting is a nice piece of machinery. If the car is ordinary, then the drive is likewise - ordinary.
It's funny, now that you mention it. I do take pleasure in OWNING my car because I respect it as a really nice piece of engineering. This is in spite of the badge, though. I'm not entirely comfortable with all the other baggage that surrounds the BMW image either.
There was a time when I DID like driving- hence my name. For the first few years after I passed my test, I liked the challenge of really mastering the controls(e.g. the perfect gear change) and planning ahead. My interest in driving (and Tottenham Hotspur) waned when ladies became a more prominent part of my life.
|
|
|
I find skiing a joy, being in beautiful mountains with crisp clean air, sliding down the piste trying to perfect my technique.
The morning coffees in the log cabins.
Wonderful.
I am really looking forward to the winter season.
Anyway, thats me done for a week, off down through France to Monaco then up to Monza for the F1 then up over the Stelvio pass in Switzerland and back into France.
All this on my trusty Yamaha FZ1S.
A week of this will bring me "deep joy" that no doubt some of you will shudder and not see the point !
Edit.
For some reason my post never gets tagged under the one I am replying to hence here it is at the end.
Edited by Mr.Tee43 on 09/09/2009 at 00:11
|
I see your point Mr Tee - but it's the wearing of the skis not the that to me is pointless not the "being in beautiful mountains with crisp clean air, The morning coffees in the log cabins."
But I also appreciate that you enjoy the "sliding down the piste trying to perfect my technique."
Are they BMW skis??!!
Enjoy your skiing and the Yamaha! and especially the Stelvio - though I thought it was closed for a long time in the winter?? Lots of vids on youtube of bikes going over the Stelvio
Phil
|
Stairs anyone? Tea tray?
:o}
|
This has now made it to one of the Tabloids - namely The Daily Star Sunday:-
img3.imageshack.us/i/save0012e.jpg/
Congrats on 'doctorchris' & 'stunorthants26' for getting their posts above mentioned in the article.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 14/09/2009 at 01:45
|
|
Maybe it would be best to assume that the slogan is just typical of what passes for communication in the world of advertising these days - the product of a brain brought up on computer games and mind-altering substances...
|
I have just been clearing out a friend's cellar.
Yesterday we discovered a 1950/60s wine crate with the slogan burnt on:
Wein macht Freude (= "Wine makes joy").
There is nothing new in the world of advertising.
On the subject of joy:
having spent a cheerful sunny summer in France, I knew we were back in the blighty by the sad, miserable, glum expressions bosticked on the faces of the Brits on the ferry...
|
On the subject of joy: having spent a cheerful sunny summer in France I knew we were back in the blighty by the sad miserable glum expressions bosticked on the faces of the Brits on the ferry...
I have to admit to a sense of misery and depression too on returning from continental trips. It didn't use to be like that. I used to find some aspects of continental life a bit oppressive but the boot's very much on the other foot now. After a taste of freedom in France or wherever, you return to the repressive land of snooping, spying, surveillance, fines, penalties and persecution of motorists, with the immediate risk of an unpleasant experience at the Customs. We're all suspected criminals now. The Stasi would have envied this lot.
|
|
Advertisers can't use sex or speed to sell cars anymore so they have to resort to what they view as the pink and fluffy.
|
The TV ad declares: ?At BMW we don?t just make cars, we make Joy? while print ads show the word Joy in giant letters. One motorist calling himself ?doctorchris? wrote on the Honest John car website: ?This advert also reminded me, when I saw it, of the Nazi slogan ?Kraft Durch Freude?, strength through joy. It alarmed me that a German company could even consider using this theme.?
Another named stunorthants26 wrote on the site: ?It?s a little bit close to ?Strength through Joy? for my liking.?
Above from the online version of the article. (Cos I can't read Dave's link)
|
Seems very blown out of perspective to me. The only common word they've used is 'joy'. Not exactly an overt endorsement of the Third Reich or the death camps, persecution and suffering that went with it. Seems the Politically Correct Brigade didn't have enough to do at the time the advertising campaign went out.
I haven't looked yet, but I'm sure if a person looked up 'joy' in any reputable dictionary it's unlikely to give a first definition along the lines of 'key word in Nazi slogan'. I can remember being at Sunday School at such a young age I struggled writing the tail on the letter 'J' in 'Joy' for a paper flag at Easter time. Should I try and get the vicar involved strung up for encouraging Nazi culture? Or, next time somebody tells me they are 'gay', should I take it to mean they're just feeling cheerful? Afterall, it seems we're back in the 1940s mentality.
Doesn't anyone actually consider context any more, or are we all dumbing down? Oh. Hang on. Daily Star. Nuff said ;)
|
The attempts by some on this thread to link BMW to the Nazis are a bit unfair.
On the one hand we have a ruthless and secretive organization originating in post-WW1 Munich, which arrogantly believes in its own innate superiority and the ruthless exploitation of propaganda to achieve it desire of brainwashing its target audience.
And on the other, a political party which seized power in Germany between 1933 and 1945.
|
|
Its totally unfair and proves we (as a nation) need to move on a bit (not forgetting the millions murdred worldwide since the end of the WW2 either).
|
Its totally unfair and proves we (as a nation) need to move on a bit (not forgetting the millions murdred worldwide since the end of the WW2 either).
Precisely.
|
|
My partner's family (except her mother and father, who managed to escape to England) was wiped out by the 'strength through joy' brigade. Some people find it harder to move on...
|
|
I accept that Mike and understand.
|
Above from the online version of the article. (Cos I can't read Dave's link)
If you click on the image from the link, it will become much larger.
|
What web browser you using? With IE7 you need to click on it a 2nd time (after the 1sttime has finished loading) to enlarge.
Is it any better with this link?
img3.imageshack.us/img3/6930/save0012e.jpg
|
|
Firefox latst version - the last link worked ok - must have been half asleep this morning.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
