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Good luck to them-Austin-Rover used to sell Metros to BSM at a loss in the hope that people passing their test would buy one!
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The 'British' School of Motoring is of course German owned these days ...
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thats good boxterboy as they have ways of making you pass your test
my girlfriend of 1981 nearly passed her test in a bsm metro but the test was cancelled when the engine fell out
bsm paid for everything and she passed at the next sitting
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Story says it's not a buyback deal and BSM are bearing the residual value.
I wonder how much BSM are paying for each car?
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If it's not permitted to link to the Times how come the 'news' on this site includes a report of JC's review of the Jag XF in the Times -
The report doesn't include a link to The Times.
The Welcome to The Backroom. Please Read sticky post states the following:-
Clarification of why links to The Times aren't allowed.
The Times is a competitor to The Telegraph, and The Telegraph is the foundation stone of this website. You may make reference to The Times/Sunday Times as in "there was this article mentioned in The Times", for example, but do not post the link - whether it's clickable or not, nor by using url shrink tools such as tinyurl or snipurl.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 28/07/2009 at 11:23
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Pay over the top for your driving lessons, get £500 of a new FIAT conditions apply.
I can see a lot of people falling for it though.
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British school of motoring says that about 70 per cent of learners who pass the test buy the model of car in which they learnt.
The chief executive of bsm, says the Corsa no longer appealed to its core customers, who tended to be young and female and wanted to drive a fashionable car.
thats you out then rattle..................... :-)
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Which is exactly why I avoid all this fashion crap. As longs as my car is not set up and beg, I have electric windows and PAS I am happy. Oh it has to look smart too. I can turn up to jobs in my Corsa and nobody bats an eye lid.
I passed with a local ADI, in a Clio III. It made me realise just how I wouldn't want one, notchy gear change and over light power steering. Damn good brakes though. I much prefeed the Clio II.
Having said that the first learner car I ever had was a 3 pot Corsa shamefully back in 1999 when I had just turned 17. I was not ready for it as I had too many personal issues so gave up in 2000. I had some lessons in 2003 and actually had a test booked but a family crisis meant I had to cancel it. I didn't have lessons again till early 2008 and passed in October.
People were once more than happy learning in Metros, the way this is going people will only want to have lessons in Aston Martins. Its just silly. What matters is the ADI.
Edited by Rattle on 28/07/2009 at 13:01
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>>Damn good brakes though.
Don't be fooled Rattle.
Renaults tend to have very silly servo settings which make the brakes initially feel very keen. People tend to say things like they have a lot of "bite".
Beyond the daft servo settings, there is nothing special or particularly well specified in the brake system, and, apart from the odd Renault pedal feel, nothing that will actually make them stop any better if you push hard on the brake pedal.
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slightly off topic (again) but i had brother in laws clio in for a safety check last week,i drove it out and the back wheel locked up on me
another case of a delaminating french rear shoe
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Up till now Vauxhall "gave BSM cars foc" - when the cars were sold in Vx got cash from selling 1 owner cars to Joe Public.
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In the original article I posted, it stated that Abu Shafi, BSM?s chief executive said ?We do have a high proportion of female drivers,? he said. ?The vehicles that appeal to them are small ? Peugeot and Mini are popular driving school vehicles.?
Well, don't we make Peugeot's & Mini's in Britain? The Corsa is made in Spain, The baby Fiat is made in Poland, BSM is German owned = welcome to Great? Britain in the 21st Century!
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Well, don't we make Peugeot's & Mini's in Britain?
We make the Mini but Peugeot stopped making cars here a few years back.
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Well don't we make Peugeot's [...] in Britain?
No. Ryton is shut.
The only small cheap car made on these shores is the Micra -- so that is where the patriotic vote should really be going. That said, it's disappearing next year to be replaced with yet another Indian import.
The Mini isn't really a small car. It's a Focus-sized model made to look small inside by inefficient design.
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>>> We make the Mini but Peugeot stopped making cars here a few years back. <<<
>>> No. Ryton is shut. <<<
I think the time has come for me to seek a traditional Zen abode in the mountains of Osaka, with Geisha and Harley Davidson!
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I'm old fashioned in some ways and slightly cynical so I though I wonder how much the back hander is and how long it will be before the 'very stylish' 500 looks dated?
Oh and I learned to drive in a 80s Fiesta and bought a '68 MkII Mini followed by a '71 Cortina MkII.
Steve.
Edited by glowplug on 28/07/2009 at 16:18
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well if you look at the original 500 that doesnt look dated so i think its a red herring to say the new one will date
i think its got timeless looks
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>>> I'm old fashioned in some ways and slightly cynical so I though I wonder how much the back hander is <<<
Well, Fiat is Italian ;)
Oh and I learned to drive in a 80s Fiesta and bought a '68 MkII Mini followed by a '71 Cortina MkII. <<<
I learnt on a Mrk 1 Escort and bought a Triumph Herald!
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I'm not convinced, the original 500 looked dated to me until the recent retro revival. We'll see in a few years time.
My brother has got a Herald on his back garden along with a A40 Farina.
Steve.
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>>> My brother has got a Herald on his back garden along with a A40 Farina. <<<
I paid £30 for my Herald, and it was a covertible with twin carbs!!
I bet the A40 is a light blue (ish) colour :)
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As HJ says though, the 500 does have more than a slight resemblance to the current Nissan Micra.
It's all about image.
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The A40 was painted a sort of red oxide shade of red. I don't know if that's it's original colour though. It's far from being in great shape but passes it's MOT every year. I think he keeps it just so that he can go into the post office once a year for a free tax disc.
Steve.
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>>> I think he keeps it just so that he can go into the post office once a year for a free tax disc <<<
Hehe, I like it! My neighbour restores old cars and I've seen some very fine examples, I wouldn't getting behind the wheel of a nice old Vauxhall Wyvern with bench seats, opening the quarterlights, putting some early Presley on the Radiomobile, and driving orf into the sunset!
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a slight resemblance to the current Nissan Micra.
... because it's a very similar device, a fat little modern car for fat little modern people (I am not referring here to HJ's figure - as honed as the French President's or even more so - let alone that of his lady assistant).
It's all about image.
Yeah... retro styling... but I can't talk. One of my oldest friends was very disagreeable about the Chrysler PT Cruiser's 'charisma', or lack of it, the other day... It too looks strangely chubby from many angles, especially from directly above.
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I think the PT Poseur looks great, mate ... not a million miles from a 60's Wyvern!
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PT Poseur looks great, mate ...
I like it too. It has a lot more 'charisma' than the Neon I imagine it is based on. But it is what it is.
not a million miles from a 60's Wyvern!
Yes, a very roly-poly looking motor.
Do you remember the fifties one with separate front and rear wings perro? Of course the Velox and later Cresta were a bit better because they had six cylinders.
Not many here will remember the forties Vauxhalls, that came in sizes from ten through twelve, fourteen and sixteen. There was even a twenty-five, quite a large and impressive car but relatively rare. They were nearly all black, with their bonnet flutes chromed. I was at school in Fishguard around 1950 with someone whose father, a sort of gipsy totter type of chap, very affable, had a Vauxhall 25. I was very envious.
Edited by Lud on 28/07/2009 at 17:44
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PT Poseur looks great, mate ...
>I like it too. It has a lot more 'charisma' than the Neon I imagine it is based on. But it is >what it is.
My dog leaves deposits on the pavement that have more charisma than the Neon.
Come to think of it, after its been trodden in, it has about the same charisma as the PT cruiser.
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My dog leaves deposits on the pavement that have more charisma than the Neon.
I should think so too AE. A pooch with its own thousand-quid cage probably does gold-plated ones, ready varnished and mounted on mahogany shields...
after its been trodden
into the Audubon floor covering in its cage, I imagine your car's interior must have considerable charisma too.
:oP
Edited by Lud on 28/07/2009 at 18:09
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perro: A quick nip through links arising out of yours above shows that I am a bit out in my decades, with the last 25 image I can get dated 1940. But I have the impression that the late thirties models remained in production until the Wyvern appeared in 1948 (the separate wings one).
The six-cylinder models were comfortable in an American sort of way, and some had overdrive. They rusted though. Where are they now?
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It's my wife's favorite car Lud, I nearly bought one but went for the Almera instead, I thought the Cruiser was too nice to leave anywhere - I'm funny like that!
Re: the 50's Vauxhalls - I'm only a youngster (57) ... The reason I remember that Wyvern I posted is that my Brother had one in the 60's and he 'borrowed' some paint from what was then British Relay (TV) and had it resprayed British Relay blue :)
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>>Damn good brakes though. Don't be fooled Rattle. Renaults tend to have very silly servo settings which make the brakes initially feel very keen. People tend to say things like they have a lot of "bite".
I think a lot of manufacturers are guilty of that one, N_C. I remember having a near identical discussion with my neighbour who traded his Focus I for a Golf V and said the Golf's brakes were "more powerful".
I agree on Renault though. Whenever I got in our old Scenic after a period out of it, I would, without fail, perform an emergency stop at the end of the road. I do the same thing to a degree going from my S60 to SWMBO's mkIV Golf. One adjusts very quickly of course, but it's quite embarrassing to be repeatedly caught out.
Overassistance of controls is one of my pet hates. It's very hard to find a car nowadays which doesn't suffer from it (the mk1 Focus and Peugeot 306 are the last affordable cars I drove which got it right).
Edited by DP on 28/07/2009 at 17:23
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The steering is perfect on my Corsa heavy at higher speeds light when parking but I have the correct tyre preasures and that makes a big difference. The problem I had with the Clio is it felt like driving on ice at any speed. The brakes on my Corsa are a bit spongy but I suspect they need bleeding.
Modern drivers are wimps that never check their oil or coolant then moan when their engine siezes.
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>>but I suspect they need bleeding.
Bleeding is not a routine operation - brakes do not suddenly need bleeding.
Much more likely is that the rear brakes need to be stripped, cleaned, lubricated, and adjusted.
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>nothing that will actually make them stop any better if you push hard on the brake pedal.
Apart from the brake assist that kicks in.
In truth, most modern cars stop in astonishingly short distances, and stable as well. I remember when a panic push on the brakes meant squeeling tyres and a trip off at a 90 degree tangent
Edited by Altea Ego on 28/07/2009 at 17:50
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>>Apart from the brake assist that kicks in.
If fitted.
The point being that by fiddling about with a 2p rubber washer in the servo, Renault and others hoodwink drivers into thinking the cars have better brakes than they actually have.
In one sense, hat's off!, if they can acheive this trickery for so little money.
As car design is in many ways converging, it will be in human factors things like brake pedal feel, and software programming that modifies how people perceive the car that will differentiate models in future. The underlying physical car will be remarkably consistent whoever the maker.
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I had a VW Polo courtsy car some years ago, the brakes had so much instant bite that the car was downright embarrassing. I drove it 20 miles each way and just could not get the hang of them at all, stopping from traffic crawling speeds was like hitting a wall. I found the thing a bit dangerous TBH and was glad to hand it back. A colleague who had the same car a few days later made the same comments.
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I had a VW Polo courtsy car some years ago
did it do it to all people or just VIP's?........:-)
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One word I wouldn't use to describe the new Fiat 500 is 'attractive'. To me, it's dumpy and puffy looking and front-heavy.
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Sort of Spud-shaped even, Spud?
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I don't think most female nippers are taught to curtsey these days.
But my grandnipper Mirabel, seven and a bit, does a really elegant one. Something to do with ballet class (and being elegant of course).
Very funny bb by the way, no offence to Spud...
Edited by Lud on 28/07/2009 at 22:18
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This is for you Lud - The oldtimer gallery :)
www.autogallery.org.ru/m/vau25.htm
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" I wouldn't mind getting behind the wheel of a nice old Vauxhall Wyvern with bench seats, opening the quarterlights, putting some early Presley on the Radiomobile, and driving orf into the sunset!"
You'd be happier with a Velox, Perro - that had a decent turn of speed: the Wyvern had the same bulbous body with a puny 1.5 litre engine which must have struggled. Give me an Austin Cambridge or Westminster any time - my first ever car was a much-loved A50.
Thanks for the link - the Vauxhall I remember from my 50s childhood was the 6-cylinder DX: there were quite a few around my home town of Farnham in those days, in varying states of disrepair but somehow keeping going, all driven by ancient and rather eccentric people.
Sorry chaps - we've come a long way from the Fiat 500 - but it's a good move by BSM which will bring in customers who think Vauxhalls uncool (they might think that but I couldn't possibly comment....).
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People that think cars are uncool or uncool. I really could not give a flying toss, however I am not saying I would drive a Matiz either.
I thought the VXR range has helped shed their reputation anyway?
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I really could not give a flying toss
just as well, if you don't know whether cars are >> uncool or uncool
But you are quite right of course Rattle. However uncool they are, cars are what they are. You seem to know that 'coolness' isn't a real criterion where cars are concerned. Not everyone does.
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But you are quite right of course Rattle. However uncool they are cars are what they are. You seem to know that 'coolness' isn't a real criterion where cars are concerned. Not everyone does.
Of course there is coolness or non coolness in car choice. It is absolutely a criteria in car choice.
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Of course there is coolness or non coolness in car choice. It is absolutely a criteria in car choice.
It isn't a serious criterion for sane people AE. Just for a start it doesn't mean anything. It's an infinitely elastic, vaguely aesthetic judgement, subject to random influences including that egregious thing 'fashion'. The silliest and most irritating feature of Top Gear is the cool wall. Like Rattle, I couldn't give a flying toss.
To put it another way, any car I am driving is cool, because I am. I make no judgement on you, but I can certainly think of people who could make any car look silly.
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>>> To put it another way, any car I am driving is cool, because I am. I make no judgement on you <<<
But have you always thought thus Lud, or is it a sign of maturity?
I certainly bought 'on looks & trends' when young but now I drive an Almera with its 'so called' staid image, but I find it cool that its utterly reliable!
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or is it a sign of maturity?
I have always thought thus - I have had to, more or less - but with greater confidence over time.
now I drive an Almera
When your cor-what'll-she-do-mister 'car enthusiast' friends down the pub tease you about the Almera, console yourself with the thought of all the carp that came my way - some of it from total strangers, cheeky carphounds - during my ownership of five Skoda Estelles...
Thanks for the Vauxhall 25 link by the way perro. The one owned by the breaker's yard man in Fishguard was like the bottom one, all black with a boot. They weren't bad looking cars actually, but their perceived quality wasn't very good.
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>>> console yourself with the thought of all the carp that came my way - some of it from total strangers, cheeky carphounds - during my ownership of five Skoda Estelles... <<<
Alas, I would have been amongst them Lud, I worked on many Skoda's and I didn't rate them very highly I'm afraid ... good workhorse though I spose, which is what you want, at least they gave birth to many jokes in their time, although with todays Skoda's, the joke is on the jokers mayhap.
Re: Fishguard, I was trying to work out if you meant Wales or I.O.W, but then I realised that's Fishbourne of course!
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Pembrokeshire.
The Estelle had faults all right, and suffered from weakness in some components. But it was so much better than people thought it was that the joke was really on them. In proper tune and driven with brio, a 130 could give a very respectable account of itself. But hardly anyone here understood that, not even you it seems.
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>>> a 130 could give a very respectable account of itself. But hardly anyone here understood that, not even you it seems. <<<
ok, the 130 was a vast improvement on the earlier 105/120 but it wasn't for me although I might have been tempted by the Rapid 135 fuel injected coupe.
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I had a 136 (8 port head and bigger main bearings, like a 135, but with a carburettor and aftermarket electronic ignition), at the same time as a very rough 130 Rapid that was only a whisker slower. The 135 was rare.
My first Skoda was a 120 GLS with swing axles and an oil cooler. It went very well but couldn't cruise at 90 like a 130. It would do it, but sounded a bit stressed. Only had a 4 speed gearbox.
Driven gently on French A roads cruising at 55 to 65, it could return nearly 50 mpg. Excellent car provided you didn't lift off suddenly while belting round a bend. Even then you could retrieve it, but the process tended to alarm drivers coming the other way...
:o}
The 105, especially in the state of tune of an average British example, must have been a real slug though. Probably the inspiration for the ghastly Jasper Carrott.
Edited by Lud on 01/08/2009 at 16:04
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>>I really could not give a flyingtoss however I am not saying I would drive a Matiz either.
I see.
So you don't care, but you still wouldn't drive a car that isn't even the least cool car on the road (I can think of several more iffy ones -- including most of the rest of Daewoo's range).
(And before anyone says anything I own a Daewoo, and a distinctly dowdy one at that, so no-one could realistically accuse me of taking notice of image!).
Edited by jase1 on 29/07/2009 at 09:17
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BSM dont care if the car is cool or not, all theyre worried about is the financial side of it. One wonders if RAC have got the FIAT breakdown contract now? Maybe theres a bit of barter going on?
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I learned with BSM in 1966 in a Morris 1100, then bought a 20 year old Triumph Roadster 1800, which I kept for 10 years.
So probably not much back-hander there.
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>>> BSM dont care if the car is cool or not, all theyre worried about is the financial side of it <<<
And the former, would impact on the latter!
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>>> Give me an Austin Cambridge or Westminster any time - my first ever car was a much-loved A50. <<<
I never liked the A60 really, although I did own an A55 once upon a time - column change IIRC - luvly ole cars, I can almost smell em!
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The only story here is that GM (Vauxhall) decided it was no longer a benefit to them to give cars away free to BSM. BSM then searched for an acceptable solution for a replacement, Fiat would prefer the 500 to the Panda as they'll be getting them back after several months for sale on the second hand market.
Be interesting to know how many of GM and Fords cars actually are leased in real terms for free, I suspect it may be at least 40%
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Isn't this decision going to kill the resale values of these little Fiats though?
Who in their right mind is going to pay a premium price for a car that is most likely an ex-driving school vehicle?
Only a select few of questionable sanity, leaving the remainder to be auctioned off at knock-down prices.
The resulting glut of cheap knackers on the used market will kill any "cool" factor they may have stone-dead.
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I wouldnt think so, Im sure they have factored all these things in. I think one of the main draws for them is that 70% of all new drivers buy the brand of car they learned (learnt?) in. (Thats quoted from Andrew Humberstone at Fiat UK).
I was looking at 2nd hand values of the 500 for a friend and at 6 months old with 6k miles on typically the value was only £200 - £300 less than brand new list price.
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Here's a rather battered version of the first driving school car I ever "drove".
It's not mine, I've no idea where that went to.
www.chezbois.com/photogallery/photo1964/11d.jpg
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Autocar have updated their story on this, with further clarification from FIAT that this will not kill resale values. Yeah right.
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i think fiat might just have a teeny weeny more insight into residuals than you may think mr ant :-)
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i think fiat might just have a teeny weeny more insight into residuals than you may think mr ant :-)
by the law of averages it had to happen once (Fiat, not me) ;-)
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