should oil still be black after service ? - diddy1234
Car had a service today (first service of the diesel engine if it helps) and checked the oil and the level is slightly up from where it was prior to the service but it is still black.

Should this be the case ?

It looks like the garage has just topped up the oil and charged me for new oil and filter.

I tried to look to see if the oil filter had been changed but it is berried deep in the bowels of the engine compartment.


I really hope I am wrong

should oil still be black after service ? - Falkirk Bairn
Petrol should be clear if changed.
Diesel will be black after even a few miles after the oil change
should oil still be black after service ? - gordonbennet
My Diesel pick up's oil is clean for about a thousand miles after changing, but it does get drained from the sump, not vaccumed up the dipstick tube.

Short of having the oil analysed i really don't see how you can prove either way.

Did you dip the oil when you collected the car from the garage?

Maybe having this doubt at all is telling you that you have no faith in the garage that is servicing your car.

should oil still be black after service ? - diddy1234
I did check the dip stick before i left the garage and no I don't have much faith in the garage.

Too many stories from friends but I went to these people as these stories were a long time ago.

Garages and dealerships do change over time
should oil still be black after service ? - spikeyhead {p}
My diesel oil is black by the time I've run the engine for half a minute to let it circulate. I know its new oil as I've put it in there myself.

It's usually obvious rubbing some oil between the fingers if its new or not.
should oil still be black after service ? - Focus1.8TDCi
I do all oil & filter changes myself because its important and "easy" (not a technical job) and don't trust garages to do it properly all of the time eg. drain oil properly. The money saved by doing just one oil change yourself is enough to buy a 2 tonne trolley jack, which I needed because I had to lift the car on both sides to get to the hard to access oil filter. I did this when changing the fuel filter too. So you get the job done properly, save money, acquire knowledge & experience and accumulate a useful set of tools!

My car's oil turns black after about 50 miles but is clean after the change.
should oil still be black after service ? - diddy1234
I agree performing an oil change yourself is the best answer.

However, to keep the warranty I have to have the service through 'their' approved dealers.
I serviced my previous cars myself and had no problems with oil changes.
should oil still be black after service ? - moonshine {P}

I've done oil changes on older diesels and the oil has been black immediately after. Newer, cleaner diesels might keep the oil clean for a while but in the end diesel oil always turns black pretty quickly.
should oil still be black after service ? - MikeTorque
It happens even with a new modern diesel engine. I had my used Focus 1.6 TDCi serviced (included an oil & filter change) prior to purchasing it. I checked the oil when I got home and the oil was black, after a 4 mile drive. I contacted the garage and they agreed to change the oil & filter (again) and poured in fresh clean oil, I watch them do it. I drove the car home and checked the dipstick, it showed black oil.

The only way to be sure the diesel engine oil & filter has been changed is to check the oil thickness before and after a service plus filter. Alternatively watch the garage perform the work, otherwise change it yourself. I prefer to either take it along to a garage and let them do it while I watch and wait, takes them about 10 minutes whereas doing it myself takes 30+ minutes not to mention it being a messy job, and then there is the old oil to take along to the garage, it's easier to let the garage do it, and it cost no more than DIY.

Edited by MikeTorque on 17/07/2009 at 23:39

should oil still be black after service ? - Number_Cruncher
Oil in a diesel engine can turn black in the time it takes to fill the oil filter during the oil change - in itself, it's nothing to worry about.

>>but it does get drained from the sump, not vaccumed up the dipstick tube.

By using a vacuum pump, I get more oil out of the traps in the oil filter housing than I could ever get out by draining.

Removing oil via the dipstick tube is nothing to worry about.

I would take a few minutes, and find the filter, and see if it's obviously new, or, if a cartridge, if there are marks indicating it's been off recently.

should oil still be black after service ? - Andrew-T
I changed the oil and filter in my 306 HDi (recently sold on) every 6K miles, and was surprised how clean it stayed for a long time afterwards, especially after fitting a new air filter. So I don't think oil in a diesel HAS to be dirty, but it often is.
should oil still be black after service ? - Old Navy
The oil has turned black quickly in all the many diesels I have owned, when changed at half the reccomended mileage or time. I usually notice that the engine is a bit quieter after an oil change.
should oil still be black after service ? - gordonbennet
I usually notice that the engine is
a bit quieter after an oil change.

>>

Agreed

I'm going to be keeping an eye on my oil to see how many miles the engine does before i get blackend oil straight away.
This is my first new vehicle, all my previous Diesels have turned the oil black very quickly, except for the Avensis which had covered i think about 10K when we bought it.

Maybe Toyota's keep their oil cleaner for some reason...i wonder if they drain fully better for example.

I am a little surprised that the OP's oil turned black so quickly as it was apparently the first service, i still suspect poor removal of the original.
should oil still be black after service ? - Number_Cruncher
>>I am a little surprised that the OP's oil turned black so quickly as it was apparently the first service, i still suspect poor removal of the original.

I'm not at all surprised. If the engine has an oil cooler, or if there are trapped volumes which cannot drain, the oil isn't going to stay clean for very long. It's saying nothing about how well the oil change was done, and is a complete red herring.

You can't tell anything about the oil's fitness for service in an engine, especially a diesel, by looking at its colour.
should oil still be black after service ? - DP
Every diesel I've ever owned right up to and including our current Golf TDI PD black their oil ludicrously quickly after a change. 30 seconds usually does it, but certainly a drive around the block would make the oil look, to the naked eye, like the old stuff that I just drained out. Unlike a petrol engine which keeps its oil translucent for thousands of miles.

There's not much you can do, but it's easy to tell if the spin on type filters have been replaced, or if the element type have had the housing disturbed.


should oil still be black after service ? - Lud
I'm not sure whether it's an illusion, but I fancy I can feel the difference between newish and knackered engine oil between my fingers.

I agree with those who say their diesel engines were quieter after an oil change. Even petrol ones can be.
should oil still be black after service ? - Number_Cruncher
>>I fancy I can feel the difference between newish and knackered engine oil between my fingers.

How have you calibrated your fingers Lud?

As ever, the back room is generating much more heat than light. It's simple;

Change the oil at the manufacturer's recommended interval
Use the grade and quality of oil specified in the handbook
Use the correct filter

That's it! - there's no more to think about.

should oil still be black after service ? - Lud
How have you calibrated your fingers Lud?


A simple rule of thumb (pun intended) NC, for use of course on cars with unknown histories, perhaps to decide whether to change the oil right now or wait for a more opportune moment:

thick and fat
leave it at that

thin and gritty
pretty dirty {I'm sure that was the word you were thinking of Lud}

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 18/07/2009 at 21:03

should oil still be black after service ? - Andrew-T
I fancy I can feel the difference between newish and knackered engine oil


I don't see why not - fingertips are pretty sensitive, and you are probably just feeling the tiny bits of suspended crud?
should oil still be black after service ? - Lud
just feeling the tiny bits of suspended crud?


Yes, those, and a change in the slipperiness of the surrounding oil. More sort of watery. It's still oil, but thinner (irrespective of its original SAE numbers) and less reassuringly slimy. But perhaps I only think I can feel it. It's quite subtle usually after all.

Perhaps all you need do is look really, because a close look will tell you quite a lot. There's black oil with its underlying gold or brown colour, and black oil that's just black, with crud and small bubbles of heaven knows what.

Used engine oil is pretty nasty stuff though, and perhaps best not palpated if you are at all squeamish or worried about your genes. NC may be right to jeer. If in doubt, the answer may be to change the oil at once and damn the expense. If not in doubt, then you know what to do.
should oil still be black after service ? - Old Navy
I would agree with Lud, old oil feels thinner than new, especially in a direct comparison. Having been "chopped up" and had its viscosity degraded in an engine for thousands of miles, hardly surprising. Its why engines are quieter on new oil.

Experts feel free to say load of PFD.

Edited by Old Navy on 18/07/2009 at 20:27

should oil still be black after service ? - Number_Cruncher
>>I would agree with Lud, old oil feels thinner than new

Yes, I don't doubt that.

But, what's important is adequacy.

The time to change oil isn't just governed by viscosity changes, in diesel engines in particular, soot loading plays an important part, as well as the PH of the oil, which even Lud's ever so sentsitive pinkies could ever detect.

The adequate oil change intervals are those given by the manufacturer. If these change intervals were actually inadequate, we would know about it.

>>Its why engines are quieter on new oil.

Quite so, but, again, it's a questin of adequacy.
should oil still be black after service ? - Old Navy
But havent the manufacturers streched servicing, (oil changes), to the limit to reduce the cost to fleet users? As I am maintaining my own property for the long term I will reduce the interval. So my oil will always be "well" adequate. :-)

Edited by Old Navy on 18/07/2009 at 21:49

should oil still be black after service ? - Number_Cruncher
I think that's a dramatic over simplification, what might be termed as lazy journalism.

Yes, the extra service interval is seen as beneficial to fleet buyers, but, it's also true to say that the oil quality, and the filter specifications have also been changed to suit, the engine's fuelling is much more accurate, and the oil change intervals have really just kept pace with improving technology.

As ever, I ask where's the evidence? Where are the masses of people complaining about short engine life?

Of course, the statisitics behind this will be extremely complex, but, I'm quite sure that engines have never been as reliable and long-lived as they are now.
should oil still be black after service ? - Old Navy
I know you are right N_C, but having been weaned on high maintenance cars, had oil is an engines lifeblood ingrained, and long in the tooth, old habits die hard.

Edited by Old Navy on 18/07/2009 at 22:00

should oil still be black after service ? - Number_Cruncher
>>old habits die hard.

Yes, I know what you mean.

Despite following the service interval specified by MB when my W124 was new, I think I am probably over servicing. The good quality oil I'm using today wasn't available when the engine was introduced into service, and so, I could probably extend the interval a bit.
should oil still be black after service ? - perro
I know this thread is about diesel engines but ... I was going to change the oil in my petrol Almera 1.8 at 6 months - especially for the timing chain problems that a minority of these cars can suffer from but - when I came to check the oil it was as clear as the proverbial bell boy, so I left it in for the yearly main dealer service.
I haven't read all of this thread but I would hazard a guess that there are many diesel car owners that are changing their oil too frequently.
should oil still be black after service ? - Andrew-T
There are many diesel car owners that are changing their oil too frequently


I was only following HJ's advice intended to prolong the life of the engine. Of course you are welcome to carry out minimal maintenance and then sell on the problem to someone else ...
should oil still be black after service ? - gordonbennet
. Of
course you are welcome to carry out minimal maintenance and then sell on the problem


And there's a lot of us here that do exactly as you are AT, though we've learned not to broadcast it too much as a serious flaming often results..;)

Asbestos flak jacket on....
should oil still be black after service ? - madf
Yaris diesel oil stays clear for c 1,000 miles...
 

Value my car