Big deal made on breakfast and rolling news today regarding clamping and breach of human rights. Whilst I abhor the antics of a number of the companies engaged in this activity, I'd ust like to say that I equally abhor he term "human rights" being used in this context.
Human rights legislation was born of a need to stop despots putting people in ovens, rounding people up in forests and shooting them, torturing people in dark and damp dungeons. It was not enacted to prevent erroneous wheel clamping by cowboy firms, and the use of the term diminishes everything that human rights stands for.
In it's place, I would like to see the United Nations enact the "You touch my car, I punch your face" Act 2009.
If my car was clamped under circumstances outlined in the news, I would hunt down the owner of the cowboy firm; like the cur he is, and do unimaginable things. Hot rusty cutlery.......eyeballs.............mmmmmm.......get the picture?
Edited by Pugugly on 09/07/2009 at 20:51
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If you don't park your car somewhere you shouldn't on privately owned land it won't get clamped. It doesn't require you to have a high degree of intelligence to work out where you are allowed to park and where you aren't.
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I have no obection to clamping per se, just the antics of some of the firms. I think a reasonable release fee after a minimum period of time is more than enough. To clamp/remove someone after being 9 minutes over their time, and then charge 400 smackers (cash, no cards or cheques) is usury.
So, yes, if you park on private land where adequate signs are up, then more fool you! However, if I was legally parked somewhere AND had paid for it, AND was delayed getting back to car by 9 minutes to find it had been towed or clamped I'd be really upset.
The word proportionality comes to mind and that should be the watch-word in this type of activity.
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And then charge 400 smackers (...) is usury.
Sorry, it isn't usury, which is lending at huge interest rates. The correct term is extortion, or extracting money with menaces?
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These days you need to be Prof Stephen Hawkins to work out who owns which bit of land and where the tiny warning sign has been carefully secreted.
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These days you need to be Prof Stephen Hawkins to work out who owns which bit of land and where the tiny warning sign has been carefully secreted.
In the Van is a petrol driven diamond bladed CUTTER. There is also a generator and an Angle grinder with a fantastic thin blade that eats things. Clamp my van and I soon go. Box me in and I WILL ram my way out.
One can earn a pound or two as well with the right tools. Legitimate clamping fine. Cowboys not fine. Very very simple really.
Now where is my Hobgoblin?
Best regards........................Martin.
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These days you need to be Prof Stephen Hawkins to work out who owns which bit of land and where the tiny warning sign has been carefully secreted.
Ah, now see if you were Stephen Hawkins then you would be entitled to a Blue Badge and as such would have all that lovely free parking, and even if not free then they are not allowed to clamp or tow any vehicle displaying a blue badge. ;o)
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If it's not your's, or you don't know it's public land or you don't know you have permission then don't park there.
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These days you need to be Prof Stephen Hawkins
Who he? (ed)
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If you don't park your car somewhere you shouldn't on privately owned land it won't get clamped. It doesn't require you to have a high degree of intelligence to work out where you are allowed to park and where you aren't.
It's not as simple as that 'snaily'. I'd agree that the straightforward incidences of a motorist driving onto private land (normally easily enough identified) and then dumping their car, often to the annoyance/inconvenience of the land owner..is a case that clamping wouldn't bother the consciences of many
however, many of these clamping outfits don't operate as simply as that.
Take this example, which is one i've had to deal with in the past. Owner of small shop, in parade, with unmade access road to rear and about 4 parking spaces in the rear garden. Owner and shop employees use the parking for themsleves. They are plagued with the selfish using the access/private parking road to park, despite there being a fee paying local authority car park nearby (and they'll often park in Shop A's private parking, despite the fact they're visiting shop F). Thug Clamping Ltd turn up and offer a contract to solve all their problems. The land owner is given a few parking permits and they're off. 2 weeks later, shop owner's wife turns up, in her car, parks to the rear of her own shop, doesn't display the permit because she's never had one and is only popping in. Clamper turns up and clamps the car. Owner comes out and says "it's o.k. it's our car, it's got permission to be there"...clamper says "tough, no permit = clamp", then remarkably quickly (because it's been waiting around the corner) the tow truck turns up...so the £85 clamp fee has now become £250 for a tow away, plus the £85...for parking on your own land. Then the shop owner, disgusted says forget it, don't come back...oh no....not as simple, you've signed a contract haven't you.
and all the above is without the intimidation, threats etc...or speaking with one employee of a company, verbally, then claimimng there's a contract, despite the fact the owner hasn't sanctioned it
the one I dealt with had the shop owner stood physically between his car and the tow truck, the car being jacked up in the air by its' front wheels...eventually the main man clamper got nicked and after a tussle put in a police van (common law offence to prevent a breach of the peace)..but the clampers 'lad' ran off with the tow truck keys (an intentional act to prevent us being able to release the car from the lorry).
That little lot took 4 hours + to deal with, with the Old Bill virtually powerless to prevent unpleasant thugs from intimidating hard working people, it was only sheer bloodymindedness on the part of police and the determination that the oik wasn't going to win that saved the day, most times it's through necessity labelled a civil dispute and the public is on its' own...(clamper sat for 2 hours in the caged part of the police van and eventually rang his 'lad' to come back with the tow truck keys).
Quite why Scotland can get it right, but England/Wales can't is beyond me.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 12/07/2009 at 19:19
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...I equally abhor the term "human rights" being used in this context....
Agreed, although I think the point being made was that only the state has the right to punish the citizen.
The high release fees charged by the clampers are nothing more than a punishment and therefore largely unenforceable in law.
I try not to park where I could be clamped, but I've always thought I'd rather pay for a suspend tow than pay the clampers.
By the time I'd paid someone else to cut the clamp off, it would probably cost more in total, but at least I would not have submitted to extortion.
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>>but at least I would not have submitted to extortion.
... but would have committed criminal damage.
A tricky one, I agree.
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I'd ban the whole lot of them. Only councils and the police should clamp or tow, and only in exceptional cases at that.
Charging £400 to recover your car when most of them operate with dodgy signs and unscrupulous employees is absolutely unacceptable. Daylight robbery.
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I'd ban the whole lot of them.
Put yourself in the position of the land owners. What would you do if people parked on your land? Answer the question. Just answer the question!
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I'd put a lockable gate across the entrance
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....Put yourself in the position of the land owners. What would you do if people parked on your land?...
What you don't do is break the law by trying to extort money.
So you do as AS says and fence off the land.
Or you enter the bombsite parking business and charge the going rate per hour.
Or you let people get on with it.
Or you charge a release fee that equates to your loss/clamping expenses, not a release fee that equates to a fine and punishment.
Edited by ifithelps on 09/07/2009 at 20:19
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As someone who regularly has my drive blocked by people parking in it or across it I wish I could get a clamping company to come and take away the cars that block me in
But I think the clamping fee should be reasonable not more then £20 and cars should only be towed in exceptional circumstances
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As someone who regularly has my drive blocked by people parking in it or across it I wish I could get a clamping company to come and take away the cars that block me in
Brake fluid is always required (in brakes) that is. Sometimes just a subtle top up is all that is required.
MD
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As someone who regularly has my drive blocked by people parking in it or across it I wish I could get a clamping company to come and take away the cars that block me in
Surely the function of a clamping company is to immobilise a car? That's not going to unblock your driveway.
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But I think the clamping fee should be reasonable not more then £20 ...........
The clamping company is in business to make a profit, but for that sort of fee they would probably make a loss. When you're in business you have to look at your total income in relation to your total expenses and time spent and set you price accordingly. The word "reasonable" doesn't come into it.
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...but would have committed criminal damage....
True.
To get out of that, I'd probably offer to pay for the cost of the clamp.
Mmm - my 'beat the clampers' strategy is looking rather costly.
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Actually, if you took the clamp with you they'd have to prove that you stole their clamp - an exceptionally difficult charge to make stick, I should think.
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Cost of the padlock you angle grind off should be enough !
Ted
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...Cost of the padlock you angle grind off should be enough !...
Suppose you could do that at the scene - decent rechargeable drill or bolt cutters.
Cheaper than paying the fine and a worthwhile addition to your toolkit.
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Wasn't there a masked vigilante who went around cutting clamps off a few years ago?
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Drivers still have to pay the parking fine. He added: ?I?m the one taking the risk. But I don?t mind ? it?s a public service. And I like wearing the costume.?
The highway hero has now bought a £120 grinder and set up a website called www.anglegrinderman.co.uk with a call out number for clamped drivers.
I don't want topost a clickable link but the full article can be found by Goodling "Super Clamp Man"
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By the time I'd paid someone else to cut the clamp off it would probably cost more in total but at least I would not have submitted to extortion.
Never charge much, sometimes nothing. I hate people that take the P.
MD
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Not safe for work, contains some swearing, but quite funny and on topic:
tinyurl.com/lu9hrp [Links to the Daily Mash satirical news site]
Edited by Gordon M on 09/07/2009 at 20:33
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do unimaginable things. Hot rusty cutlery.......eyeballs.............mmmmmm."
Yeah but that is torture and is in properly breach of Human Rights
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We seem to manage OK here in Scotland without private clamping companies. You lot down there need to give your politicians more grief.
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My business has a parking area clearly signed for use of customers only. I have often had people park in this area without visiting my business and have occasionally blocked them in with my vehicles, only letting them out in my own good time. The more abusive and louder they get, the more cups of coffee / phone calls I have before I move my obstruction.
There are a lot of ignorant and selfish people out there who deserve all they get.
Edited by ohsoslow on 09/07/2009 at 21:39
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Or get done - clamped and towed for not parking prettily.
tinyurl.com/parkneatly
A CAR clamping firm which caused outrage with its huge fines is now targeting East Yorkshire motorists who leave vehicles outside the white lines of parking bays.
The Mail can reveal xxxxxxxxx Ltd, who took over several sites previously run by yyyyyy yyyyy Ltd, is charging drivers £275 if they park across two spaces.
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>> tinyurl.com/parkneatly
When was the photo taken, was it contemporaneous with the alleged offence?
Or was it taken at a later time, when Tina re-visited the site with a photographer and she said "oh yes, that's how my car was parked, just like that"
£275 does seem a scandalous amount of money, but it isn't a 'fine', these people cannot 'fine' you.
Isn't it about time somone took one of the clamping companies to court, claiming return of the penalty charge and compensation?
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Clamping is extortion. The scottish system is correct. If someone is causing a nuisance with their parking how can stopping them going anywhere help??? What needs to happen is the existing laws need to be enforced as there are too many criminals involved in clamping. Threatening behaviour and all sorts goes on and it isn't acceptable. One of these days some of these clampers are going to clamp someone that will knock seven bells out of them or give them a good blast of buckshot. The public will cheer!
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Whle I agree there is a lot wrong with the present system I tried in my previous thread to illustrate the problem from another point of view.
I have bought my land and pay good money for rates etc and am trying to run a business. I get people parking on this land instead of paying in the nearby Pay & Display car park.
When approached they almost always say they have only been there for a couple of minutes so what does it matter while carrying several carrier bags of shopping. Speed shopping is obviously their forte.
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...I have bought my land....
Obvious answers, either fence it off or move into the car parking business.
Presumably there are reasons why neither works in your case.
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Apparently clampling was tried in France. The solution was actually solution in the form of superglue whereby any clamp seen on a car was liable to have its lock filled with the stuff and be irrepairable. I think clampling is robbery and should be strictly regulated, the fines imposed are greatly in excess of the offence.
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Ifit,
No, neither are practicable.
A/ I am not allowed to fence it in or gate it although I do lock chains across the entrance out of hours
B/ Having a parking area for the business is a great advantage which attracts real customers. As well of course does my incredible good looks and charm! :-)
I have therefore to put up with these 'non customers' and when I have a bad day enjoy blocking them in for indefinate periods. 'No madam, I don't know whose car that is blocking you in.'
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I don't enjoy having to bolt every window and door and set the alarm every time I leave the house. I'm fed up with having the side gate and the shed padlocked. However, if I want to keep out people I have not invited, society dictates that I must do so. The same goes for a patch of land. yes , it's a pain having to lock and unlock the chain for each coming and going but that's the way we are forced to live.
Clamping would have been a way of dealing with the problem if it had been a properly regulated industry from the off and not the preserve of shaven headed louts with the muscle to intimidate and threaten that it now is.
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Clamping would have been a way of dealing with the problem if it had been a properly regulated industry from the off and not the preserve of shaven headed louts with the muscle to intimidate and threaten that it now is.
And there's the crux of the problem...
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These days you need to be Prof Stephen Hawkins to work out who owns which bit of land and where the tiny warning sign has been carefully secreted.
Posibly so, but it's simplicity itself to see whether a particular piece of land is a designated parking area. If I'm in doubt I don't park on it.
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Perhaps some of you may think a little differently if you regularly had uninvited strangers park on your drive.
Also consider that in my case they could be costing me money as potential customers passing by see my parking area full (with possible non customers) so don't stop. I sometimes wish I had a gorilla with a clamp to sort them out.
PS my signs are LARGE AND CLEAR!
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ohsoslow - Use a deterrent tactic. Buy a cheap clamp and use it on a vehicle you know won't be moving and place a large notice on the windscreen. Worked very well in a car park I used to use.
Edited by daveyjp on 13/07/2009 at 11:26
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davey
May be worth a try.
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