After my abysmal 57 reg Corsa was written off, I decided to go back to known territory - safe and sound. I decided to buy a Skoda and after about 4 weeks of various information gathering exercises (I wasnt going to repeat the disaster of buying a Vauxhall on impulse) - I set my sights on a Skoda Octavia Elegance 1.4Tsi. Unfortunately they are as rare as hens teeth and a 20+ week wait for new. All discounts also seemed to evaporate at the dealer when I tried to order. So instead I spent a frustrating afternoon on the phone to several Skoda dealers to see what else I could get at short notice.
Everywhere without exception were not interested in negotiating price. No part ex and cash didnt make them interested in fact one dealer even said that cash was not particularly of interest to them! In the end I got a tiny discount (plus the VAT free offer) on a Fabia.
How Skoda scrappage costs them nothing:-
They advertise £2500+ off a Fabia. (£1000 off the government and £1500 from Skoda) Well, the long standing standard deal is a "VAT free" price. That discounts from a "list price" by about.....£1500. So scrap deals are selling the cars at the real list price minus £1000 which is the Government bit.
This scrappage thing has cost me money and choice. The Fabia is a stopgap measure - I'll look again once this scrappage rubbish burns out (September by all accounts) and the car dealers realise what a deep hole they've dug for themselves.
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I've never understood why customers think cash is preferential over finance; other than where the finance is subsidised. And as this subsidy is usually paid for by the manufacturer the dealer still won't mind either way.
Please, brum, I'd like to know why you think cash would make a difference?
As regards discounts, the Skoda dealers I know are doing OK at the moment, & everyone seems to be doing OK on the cheaper new cars due to scrappage. You're not going to give money away when you don't need to.
Edited by bonzodog on 04/06/2009 at 16:46
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Falkirk - I dont have a car to scrap (My 11 year old Alhambra is in prime condition and is needed - no intention of scrapping it). I doubt the passat actually exists, I could not wait 20 weeks.
Bonzodog - Neither a borrower or a lender be..... is my philosophy. You're not telling me that cashflow is not important in any business? Sorry - I forget the worlds economy is built on credit and we are about to see armageddon. - THEN things will get interesting......
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The garage get the money either way (cash or finance sourced) when the car is sold so whats the difference to them? In fact, theres probably less "danger" in a money transfer transaction between a finance company and a garage.
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Cashflow is important, but as to whether its cash or a cheque (same thing when its cleared) I'd have thought its academic... and as BD says they commission on a loan arranged through themselves, so I suspect that would be their preference... perhaps BellBoy could enlighten us on Dealer's preferences?
Edited by b308 on 04/06/2009 at 17:23
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Thanks for the answer brum, I understand you now.
However you are mistaken; as has been said there is no affect to cash flow - you sign the finance docs & the money is in the dealer's bank within days. These days a lot of dealers get the customer to sign the docs prior to taking the car so the money is in their bank BEFORE he collects the car.
And as has also been said, dealers make commission from the finance companies so would prefer you to finance the car via them.
Buying on monthly payments also make the sale of extras much easier as customers don't seem to mind an extra £44.99 per month whereas getting them to stump up an additional £1,500 is virtually impossible (except for MINIs, up-market models & MINIs)
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Im surprised no one has mentioned money laundering yet.
I cant remember (or find a link) to the maximum cash that can be accepted, but there is a limit.
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I paid in the region of 20k in cash (well cheque and debit card) for my last two cars with no raised eyebrows. No discount on the Golf two years ago but a good deal on the Honda and no mention of finance.
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Dealers hate cash, it takes time to count, can be fake and can also get robbed later.
They don't like cheques or debit cards either as they miss out on a huge commission from the finance co.
More often than not we used to make more finance commission than we did profit on the actual car itself, particularly new cars which as a standalone deal often didn't make enough profit to pay the leccy bill.
We only made money on new cars by way of manufacturer kickbacks at the end of a quarter and via finance commission.
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I paid in the region of 20k in cash (well cheque and debit card)
When I said cash, I meant folding stuff... greenbacks... that paper stuff that some fuel stations dislike due to the inability of cloning! ;-)
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Ah sorry I thought it was in a more general sense.
Edit: - Thanks for the below brum - That's how I read it !
Edited by Pugugly on 05/06/2009 at 08:54
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Seesh, I didnt realise just how difficult it is to communicate with backroomers.....
By cash, I meant money in my bank. i.e. not finance, not hp, not bank of never never.
My point was that the scrappage has distorted the market so much that many are now being forced to pay full list price. When scrappage hits the brick wall, the dealers are suddenly going to find showrooms empty, both of cars and customers.
I am not going to return to dealers who were rude or plain liers.
Edited by brum on 05/06/2009 at 00:30
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cash to a motor trader means as swiss says ,folding spondoolies.
It makes me laugh when someone says im paying cash and i retort by saying something stupid like i love you or i dont take children
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That is probably why I hate car salesmen.
Plus their ignorance of the product, and their selective memories, and their downright lies, and the way they smile at you when lying , and their deliberately misleading statements and lots of other things besides....
Did you miss my recent thread re intolerance? It is now within the Welcome thread at the top of the Discussion forum - please do take the time to read it, and post in a less insulting style in future. Smokie, Moderator
Edited by smokie on 05/06/2009 at 08:20
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I noticed today that the only two manufacturers giving a proper full discount for scrappage have increased sales, the other mainstream rivals have all fallen by a good margin.
The problem at present is with the manufacturers not offering what people want and what they do have is overpriced. In todays press Toyota are advertising the Yaris with the new engine from £10245, Bonkers, no wonder their sales have fallen so much. Only offer on the badly built Civic is for the 1.8Se model at 14k, fields full of cars and workers taking a pay cut and still they don't see sense.
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The thing is that terminology means diferent things to different people:
"Seesh, I didnt realise just how difficult it is to communicate with backroomers" says brum
Cash to me means pound notes OR cheque OR credit card OR debit card OR bankers draft OR building society cheque ie no finance, as I guess it does brum
Cash to BellBoy means pound notes
The retail motor trade thrives on ignorance & misleading customers
..........
Oh & stupid customers .......
..... with more money than sense
& customers who would rather drive in a car that is invariably likely to break down, than one which is unlikely to
& customers who will pay £120 per hour for a service but say "they paid for my taxi into town & back" (@£4.50)
& customers who complain about their make of car but buy another next time & the next time
& customers who complain like hell on this & other forums but won't go to small claims court
& customers who .... etc etc
you get the picture
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From the Oxford English Dictionary..... tinyurl.com/ovu7yv
cash
? noun 1 money in coins or notes. 2 money as an available resource: he was always short of cash.
? verb 1 give or obtain notes or coins for (a cheque or money order). 2 (cash in) convert (an insurance policy, savings account, etc.) into money. 3 (cash in on) informal take advantage of (a situation). 4 (cash up) Brit. count and check takings at the end of a day?s trading.
? PHRASES cash down with immediate and full payment at the time of purchase. cash in one?s chips informal die. cash in hand payment in cash rather than by cheque or other means.
The OED is the Dictionary I trust.
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Im surprised no one has mentioned money laundering yet.
I always get my manservant to clean and iron my money. I don't want to get my hands dirty. He also irons my newspaper.
;-)
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Brum - you will be very lucky to get any brand new VAG car within a short time. You may be lucky and hit on a cancelled order, but there aren't fields of them ready and waiting to be sold.
A 20 week wait is reality (and as one thread is showing for a Golf 1.4 it's over 30 weeks). I was in the Audi dealer yesterday and asked about sales with this new engine - it is very popular and the wait for a 1.4 petrol is over 20 weeks - a diesel will take 12.
When I was looking at Skodas a few months ago not many dealerships even had one to test drive - my local dealer's was in the showroom and couldn't be driven.
It wll be 6-9 months before ex demos of these hit the market.
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It always amuses me when car salesmen say "How would you like to pay, Sir?" I start to get my wallet out of my pocket, look at them as if I don't understand their question, and say "Cash?". I think it's really cheeky for them to imply that I might want to buy on credit.
Edited by L'escargot on 05/06/2009 at 07:43
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Reading this thread I can't help but wonder why the OP didn't use a broker if he dislikes the service provided by dealers?
Cars are usually available in short time (unless a factory order) and I can't see them objecting to cash, a car is a car to them.
Why stress so much over dealing with dealerships when an alternative is available who usually discount?
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Yet in the days when people bought and sold houses, there was the phrase "cash buyer" meaning someone who was not in a chain, and perhaps did not even need a loan to do the deal. Did they go to the estate agent/solicitor with a briefcase full of readies - I doubt it.
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Cash, of course, leaves no 3rd party audit trail. It may generate a receipt from the receiver to the giver - but that is between the 2 parties. I'd imagine cash-cash (the folding stuff) could more popular with the less than scrupulous small or one person businesses because of that - it gives the possibility of non-taxable income or profit.
I'm sure a good part of the 'money laundering' legislation was aimed at just these sorts of black economy transactions. I often wonder if all the small builders, plumbers & various domestic service servicers of various kinds, scrupulously record all their 'cash' transactions. What do other BRers think?
Edited by woodbines on 05/06/2009 at 11:59
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I think the clue is when they ask you if you want to pay VAT or not.
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SWISSTONY - If you want to quibble..... ? noun 1 money in coins or notes. 2 money as an available resource:
The key here is "money as an available resource" which in a modern context means
"Currency and coins on hand, bank balances, and negotiable money orders and checks."
If you are a car trader SwissTony, then it doesnt surprise me you try to manipulate facts to suit you. ;)
DAVEYJP - Yes I know that there is a severe shortage of VAG cars - this is likely due to the massive scrappage schemes in Germany and other EU countries and the fact they didnt build up massive stocks in farmers fields like other manufacturers. And UK is last on the list.
For those who think its OK to deal in cash notes/coins, I might remind you there is a legal limit of approx £9000 that can be used in any single transaction unless registered as a "high value dealer". Most large dealers probably have much lower limits to ensure compliance with money laundering regulations
GMAC- why didnt I use a broker? Yes I considered this, but was already aware of long lead times. I had a requirement to get something quick. But I agree, internet initiated purchases are probably the way of the future.
Other interesting points, the Skoda Fabia I bought had a "Function Pack". These optional packs (£500 ea) are not available to be combined with other deals e.g. scrappage. So this car couldnt be offered to scrappage customer..... All Skoda scrappage deals are only available for vehicles delivered and registered before 31st August. Which means if you havent ordered one by now, its too late.
I wonder how many customers will find a demand for extra payment when their car is delivered late?
Edited by brum on 05/06/2009 at 15:16
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SWISSTONY - If you want to quibble.....
>> ? noun 1 money in coins or notes. 2 money as an available resource:The key here is "money as an available resource" which in a modern context means "Currency and coins on hand bank balances and negotiable money orders and checks." If you are a car trader SwissTony then it doesnt surprise me you try to manipulate facts to suit you. ;)
1/ I dont want to quibble, I was trying to point out the real meaning of the word 'cash'
2/ I am not the one trying to manipulate facts to suit me.
the OED is quite clear on the definition, you however miss out ' he was always short of cash.' which is an example of usage (noun 2) which allows you to bring in money orders and 'checks' surely you mean 'cheques' or did you find an American definition?
At the end of the day, 'car traders' and most people who take money in exchange for goods and/or services mean 'cash' for folding stuff, 'credit' for a loan, and card and cheque payments are straight forward to understand.
I dont wish for you (or others) to think Im being difficult, or manipulative, because in fact I try to be as straight as possible, and Im one to call a spade a spade...
BTW Im NOT a trader, but I am IN the motor trade, and I do see a lot I dont agree with......
Time to let this part of the thread rest I think.... we may have to agree to disagree?
BTW the anti laundering limit is why I mentioned cash in the 1st place ;-)
Edited by the swiss tony on 05/06/2009 at 19:49
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