..As an aside, my local supermarket has a card facility on the pumps...is the information able to be 'got at' by unscrupulous people inside the filling station?...
The classic petrol station cloning involved a dishonest assistant carrying out a double swipe - once to pay for the fuel, and a second swipe on a separate card reader to copy the details for future use.
I'm no expert, but I reckon the pay at pump machines must be safer because the card does not leave your sight and is only swiped once.
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"I'm no expert, but I reckon the pay at pump machines must be safer because the card does not leave your sight and is only swiped once."
have a look at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_loop
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The garages at which these various schemes/scams happen are sometimes loosely connected to objects found on a beach.
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The garages at which these various schemes/scams happen are sometimes loosely connected to objects found on a beach.
Funny (?); that does seem to be a common denominator ( depsite the fact they are presumably all franchises anyway). I used my card at one of their petrol stations in Weymouth, lo and behold somebody tries to buy a 1600 quid laptop using my CC details. That outlet was the subject of a police raid a few weeks later:-
www.thisisdorset.net/news/1569366.police_swoop_on_.../
Then, this week we have another outbreak:-
www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/4409917.GARAGES_IN_.../
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Oh Blimey! I used Shell at St Leonards last week.
Better keep a close eye on the cc account for a week or two. Thanks for the link
Terryb
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Oh good that'll keep the crime figures for that area lower then.;)
Was this response from a proper police officer or a front desk civilian? >>
A search of this forum or using your favourite search engine will show that the policy was changed by NuLab some time ago so that card fraud counts as a crime against the Bank, and not you, and it is up to the Bank to solve it or report it to the Fraud Squad [or whatever they are called now].
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changed by NuLab some time ago so that card fraud counts as acrime against the Bank and not you
I smell a rat...so Bank reports 1 theft but that could be covering 200 or more actual thefts...figure juggling just like MP's expenses.
Does anyone at the bank even bother to report these crimes?
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I think the "solution" is to simply make sure you keep several active cards.
I've had mine cloned a few times, and reporting it and getting it replaced is probably easier than going to the bank every few days to draw out chunky wads of cash (which you could always lose, or get mugged for).
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"...which you could always lose..."
Lose cash BP? I'll wager that you're definitely not a Yorkshireman like my good self ? hah!
I think the crux of this matter is to try to minimise personal 'pain'.
Does anyone else feel that a significant number of the populous these days is out to 'stiff you' at every opportunity, or is it just my paranoia.
Friend of mine had a recent experience in a mainstream Lexus dealership when buying some parts. Matey on reception took his CC and disappeared out back for a good few minutes. On returning to front desk my buddy asked why he'd needed to do the transaction out of sight ? a question to which the guy responded fairly aggressively and unconvincingly. Once out of the door my buddy went straight to his bank and cancelled said card. That's paranoia?...
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Does anyone at the bank even bother to report these crimes?
no, they do not....and neither do the financial institutions when someone opens a false account or intercepts a cheque etc
there's a Mexican stand off...banks think police should investigate it and don't wish to put resources to combat it...and the police are instructed to leave it to the banks and concentrate on other 'priority' crimes.
meanwhile we all cop it in higher charges...and crooks get away with it...marvellous
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>> meanwhile we all cop it in higher charges...and crooks get away with it...marvellous
I think that's pretty much the shape of it: Although I'll be getting my money back, as will the majority or all of those affected, we still pay for it in other places in the long run - low interest rates vs high loan rates etc!
It must be costing the banks quite a lot, since they have to reimburse the victim / set up specialised 'fraud depts' / investigate the actual crime etc, and I would expect the banks make sure that they don't end up paying for it!
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Any BR Members recall this from Oct 2008? Production line of Chip & pin machines in China were inserting mobile phone chips which transmitted Card details AND pin to some 3rd world scammers. The items came factory sealed with security seals etc. The only way to spot the hooky ones was to weigh them and compare with a genuine unit - hooky was heavier
"An organised crime syndicate is suspected of having tampered with the chip and pin machines, either during the manufacturing process at a factory in China, or shortly after they came off the production line.
In what is known as a "supply chain attack", criminals managed to bypass security measures and doctor the devices before they were dispatched from the factories where they were made.
The machines were opened, tampered with and perfectly resealed, said Dr Brenner, "so that it was impossible to tell even for someone working at the factory that they had been tampered with." They were then exported to Britain, Ireland, the Netherlands, Denmark and Belgium.
An investigation launched by Mastercard International is understood to have discovered several of the corrupted machines at British branches of Asda and Sainsbury's."
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 03/06/2009 at 13:57
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A radio programme recently stated that neither the police or banks will investigate unless a "LARGE" sum is involved-it's not worth their time;as long as the fraudsters are satisfied with small returns,they will get away with it.Recently,I have had both an Asda and a Tesco card replaced,not because I had had any concerns,but other users had.
Edited by jc2 on 03/06/2009 at 14:01
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meanwhile we all cop it in higher charges...and crooks get away with it...marvellous
Words cannot convey how much i despise those responsible for such stupidity.
This sort of things costs all of us in the long run, i know victims usually get reimbursed, but that's not the point, i always use cash wherever possible if it causes criminals like this to lose out just once i'm doubly chuffed.
Must be proper coppers everywhere with huge bumps where they spend all day bashing their heads against the wall..;)
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Cash is fine, but please remember to get a receipt, as it is very easy for an unscrupulous cashier to pocket the cash and then claim you have not paid.
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I have never used my cashcard to buy fuel, infact retro as it may be, I dont actually make any card purchases unless Im buying a car. Ive never found it too hard to have enough cash on me and no swine ever gets to see my card in public. As such, Ive never been scammed.
One of my old girlfriends fathers ran a big name petrol station, must be ten years ago now, and he found that the three young men he employed were all in on a scam with credit cards. Unfortunatly, when he reported them, he got virtually no support from his employer and was expected to cover all the shifts of the people who he shopped to the boys in blue. I wonder if that is still the case.
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It's yet another example of the law of unintended consequences.
Because CHIP and PIN in the UK made it more difficult for someone to nick your card and pretend to be you, it became easier to clone the card and use it abroad or simply to steal the details and buy on the phone or internet here by using them.
I think the banks would rather pay out than admit to the extent of the fraud and the police can always say they have bigger fish to fry. Whether or not those fish do get fried is another matter.
It's cash for me except at the filling station at the local supermarket.
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I think the banks would rather pay out than admit to the extent of the fraud and the police can always say they have bigger fish to fry. Whether or not those fish do get fried is another matter. >>
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=63...7
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=40...8
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I know the points have been made before, jbif. But has anything changed? No.
So people will continue to post and some of the thread will be repetition of what's gone before.
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As stunorthants26 says: virtually no support from employer.
I know of one worker in a fast food outlet who would use customer credit card details to phone sex lines - when caught, he wasn't disciplined and carried on working at the till.
I'd also agree with Zipp123 - get a receipt if you pay cash !
My AllStar (fuel only) card was cloned - I only found out because they were using four times as much fuel as I was. The garage where most of their fuel was bought was not able to supply a single receipt to AllStar so ended up footing the bill.
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Bill Payer wrote:...I've had mine cloned a few times, and reporting it and getting it replaced is probably easier than going to the bank every few days to draw out chunky wads of cash...
BP,
I'm guessing you mean a credit card.
My debit card has been used fraudulently and sorting it out is proving to be a bit of bother.
1. I've no access to the £600-odd quid in dispute, so have to keep more money in the account to cover it.
2. I'm worried that further fraudulent transactions will cause direct debits to bounce, so I am keeping even more money in the account, just in case the thieves should want to buy something else.
3. Turns out my monthly home insurance instalments were a 'card payment' and not a direct debit. The latest payment has bounced because I've changed the card.
My case is probably one of the less serious and simpler of its type, but it's enough aggro for me.
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I'm guessing you mean a credit card.
Yes, I do mean credit card. I would never use a debit card in a petrol station - I would never have done that before, but certainly wouldn't now with the possibility of it being scammed these days.
I keep 3 credit cards on the go (used to be 4 but one of them caused me more hassle than the other 3 put together, probably as its call centre was in India so I cut it up).
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I've posted this before but I'll say it again - if there's fraud on your account you are not the victim , the bank is. Your 'account' is an administrative method for the bank to keep a record of your transactions and thus your balance (or otherwise). You don't own the account, there's nothing tangible to own. If you have trouble accessing your money following fraud, provided you properly assist the bank, then refer the matter to the banking ombudsman. All major banks agree to be bound by the ombudsman. I've used the service to very good effect before but in fairness to the banks there are countless 'customers' who try it on with self effected fraud and perhaps we should all assist the bank when genuine fraud occurs.
As for who deals with the crime: Anyone can report crime to the Police. Under the national crime recording standards it must be recorded and dealt with. My personal view is that I won't be reporting fraud on my account, I'll politely tell the bank that they can do that if they so wish, as I'm their customer and not their employee. Most account contracts (because you are in one when you open an account) require you to report fraud to the Police if the bank asks you to do so, but I can't see them being able to enforce it, and they didn't try it on with me or with people I have advised similarly.
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From the horse's mouth [ not wacky Jaquie ]
www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime.../
"Crime & Victims
Fraud
.....
What if it happens to you?
In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, if you need to report card or bank account fraud, you should immediately contact your bank or card company. Credit card companies and banks are responsible for verifying the crime, and reporting it to the police."
[my emphasis added in bold]
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Through an agreement with APACS, the BBA and the Home Office, crime recording standards now state that the victim in card/cheque frauds is the bank....not the account holder. Ergo, police will only be able to take fraud complaint from bank. It has nothing to do with massaging figures.
If the bank chooses not to report the fraud, then so be it. Frustrating for the account holder I know.
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Be worried, be warned, the cloners have invaded ATM machines:
www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/03/atm_trojans/
Posted in Crime, 3rd June 2009 19:29 GMT
"Data-sniffing trojans burrow into Eastern European ATMs
Security experts have discovered a family of data-stealing trojans that have burrowed into automatic teller machines in Eastern Europe over the past 18 months.
The malware logs the magnetic-stripe data and personal identification number of cards used at an infected machine and provides an intuitive interface for retrieving the information using the ATM's receipt printer, according to analysts from SpiderLabs, the research arm of security firm Trustwave. Since late 2007 or so, there have been at least 16 updates to the software, an indication that the authors are working hard to perfect their tool ... ...... ....... ......... "
Edited by jbif on 04/06/2009 at 11:07
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from the article above
"A secondary menu also allows the person to force the machine to dispense all its cash"
Now wouldn't that be handy to have!!
Seriously, I am off to Bulgaria for holiday later in month. When I have went there previously, as with most foreign holidays, I normally just deposit money on my bank account and withdraw from ATMs as and when cash is needed. I am with Nationwide and they offered no charges for this although I believe they have now changed that.
I don't have issues with credit cards being cloned, if it does then the bank have to deal with it. However as has been said elsewhere, if it is a debit card like mine, then the cash is taken from me before I then need to try and reclaim it.
So what is best way of dealing with currency for foreign holidays now?
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So what is best way of dealing with currency for foreign holidays now?
I would suggest an Abbey/Santander Zero Card. I take out currency locally in Spain. The rate is near commercial and there are no additional charges. You just have to pay it off asap when you get home. Remeber if using the card in a shop always select local currency for payment though.
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