If it makes you feel better this particular Police Officer deals with them.
:-)
Have a beer on me when you get home !
Now where were you on Sunday when they were all out clogging up the M5 and M6 ?
Can you work on the ones who must shoot into lane 3 the minute they join the motorway. Saw somebody conspicuously do that @ the M5/M6 junction on Sunday, traffic was fairly heavy there but lightened further north, I'm happy sin lanes 1 or 2 at (somewhere near) the limit, and we are around Stafford North before he passes me in lane three, where he's presumably been since J8
Edited by borasport20 on 19/05/2009 at 14:41
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If it makes you feel better this particular Police Officer deals with them.
Excellent! I was stuck behind someone for miles the other day at a steady 50 - he wouldn't move out of lane 2 and I was towing the caravan so not allowed to use lane 3.
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'don't hog the middle lane' so moved over!!!!!!!1
An otherwise apparently normal friend of ours thought lane 1 was for trucks only.
I saw a truck flashing a car in L2 of the M62 and the driver moved to L3, the truck passed, and then the car moved back to L2.
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I wonder how many times a week mlc wishes he could hand out fixed penalties ordering people to go back to primary school, with the alternative of a week in the stocks...
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I wonder how many times a week mlc wishes he could .................
have a machine gun mounted on the front? (I would)
Edited by martint123 on 19/05/2009 at 17:15
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This post constitutes no defence for 2nd lane hogging and it's something I avoid doing.
However, the ruts made in lane 1 by the HGVs can make it a nasty experience to drive in.
Now that I drive a Panda with a narrow track I don't notice the effect but when I drove wider cars, eg A Volvo 740 and a Nissan Terrano 2, I used to feel like a train driver on a rather erratic railway line.
Couple that effect with a caravan and it could feel very nasty.
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Couple that effect with a caravan and it could feel very nasty.
I second that. Skoda Estelles didn't much like those ruts, and any car with a suspension fault - lower front rubber going for example - will also become skittish on them.
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So, driving happily in lane 1 with no obstructions you approach the slower moving lane 2 hog. Undertake? Legal?
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I define lane hogging as 'remaining in a lane other than than lane 1 when there is no good reason for doing so'.
If there is a continuous line of lorries doing 50 mph in lane 1, I think it's justifiable to remain in lane 2 if you're doing 60-70 mph. moving to lane 1 would mean getting stuck there, trapped by other traffic in lane 2.
This happens particularly on the 2-lane section of the M11 when it's busy - it's basically heavy vehicles in lane 1 and cars and vans in lane 2.
Re the lorry ruts in lane 1 - driving an empty lorry along them can be an interesting experience if you stray a little off-rut!
Edited by Sofa Spud on 19/05/2009 at 17:59
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In answer to woodster:
I'm not sure, but a lot of people do it. HJ might recommend it if there was much traffic. Under those circumstances I might do it, with a flash first to show I was there, and with due caution.
If my car was showing a nine or thereabouts and they were mimsing along at 65 I wouldn't undertake though, or not without slowing down quite a lot. You can't trust the carphounds and you don't want to upset them when they've already got their hands full DRIVING a CAR on a MOTORWAY! That could lead to bloodshed.
Edited by Lud on 19/05/2009 at 18:01
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No, you move out into lane 3 with appropriate signalling, accelerate swiftly past the vehicle in lane 2 then, with appropriate signalling pull back into lane 1.
You've done the right thing and feel good. The idiot in lane 2 fails to get the message, usually but that's his problem.
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A friend of mine (!) likes to time the undertake along with any other car overtaking in lane 3. A sort of pincer movement...
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You move out into lane 3 with appropriate signalling, accelerate swiftly past the vehicle in lane 2 then, with appropriate signalling pull back into lane 1. The idiot in lane 2 fails to get the message, usually but that's his problem ..
If the motorway is not too busy, I don't regret to say that I undertake, if the lane-2 bimbler looks like staying there and not side-swiping me on the way past. I feel that if he is going to get any message, that may be marginally more likely than by doing a rapid lane-1-to-lane-3 manoeuvre, which he will just regard as showmanship. And not getting the message is not 'his problem' - it's a public problem, or we wouldn't be moaning about it here?
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And also not possible to overtake in lane 3 if you are towing... and yes, people lane hog in lane 2 at less than 60...
I remember a story from the 70s when a racing driver I used to know came across such a person in lane 2, he was driving a converted coach so was classed as an HGV - he went up behind them, bumpered up and began to push them, then eased off and they moved over... later in the journey the Police pulled him over... they said they had had a complaint and gave the story he'd given them... he said he had 13 witnesses (passengers in the coach) that would say otherwise... the policeman let him go after telling him not to try anything similar... but also telling him that they'd had "words" with the other driver! Strictly not legal, but I doubt the other driver ever tried it again...
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Many motorways are so busy, I can understand why some drivers choose to stay in lane two of a three-lane road.
It's pointless pulling over for a couple of hundred metres only to have to pull out to overtake or give way to someone joining from a junction.
Getting buried in lane one is another concern, and it can be intimidating being stuck between lorries with another lorry overtaking.
Of the millions of drivers on our roads, I think very few are true lane hogs - sitting in the middle lane of an empty motorway.
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It's pointless pulling over for a couple of hundred metres ...
No, I don't think it's pointless, but it can be irritating having to do it repeatedly. But we all know the difference between not having to pop in and out between widely-spaced lorries, and having to deal with a driver doing 55 in lane-2 with little else around. THAT is pointless.
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It's pointless pulling over for a couple of hundred metres only to have to pull out to overtake or give way to someone joining from a junction.
It is the responsibility of those joining a motorway to give way to those already on it. Not vice-versa. People giving way unnecessarily in this way really get my goat, as more often than not they force those travelling faster to have to move out a lane also. Or they often don't consider the fastest traffic in lane 3 preventing drivers in lane 2 from moving over for them, causing unnecessary braking and disrupting the flow of traffic.
Rubbish behaviour, and exactly why the highway code is written how it is.
By all means give way if you want to be overly polite, but only when it doesn't cause someone else to have to adjust their speed for you. Pretty much a golden rule in itself for motorways, and one seldom observed.
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It is the responsibility of those joining a motorway to give way to those already on it. Not vice-versa
It is the responsibility of both parties to keep the traffic flowing. That means those driving in the n/s lane of the motorway should, when appropriate, accelerate or back off slightly, or move into the middle lane, to leave or create a gap for cars approaching down the slip road at appropriate speed.
Of course if the cars joining on the slip road are crawling, or stopped, life's too short to bother. But it's hard to join a busy motorway without a bit of cooperation from those already on it. To ignore traffic joining from a slip road is bad and selfish driving, and stupid too.
Edited by Lud on 20/05/2009 at 11:38
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Lud, the highway code states that you should make no movements on a motorway which would necessitate other drivers to adjust their speed. That's how traffic should be kept flowing.
I'm not suggesting slip road traffic be ignored, just that those already in the n/s lane shouldn't do anything which forces other drivers around and outside them to adjust their speed if it can be avoided. The joiners need to adjust their speed according to the traffic on the carriageway. Of course, if a situation is becoming dangerous for whatever reason, anyone should do whatever they can to defuse the situation. But making others change their speed can be downright dangerous, it can have all sorts of knock on effects. And when this is done purely for reasons of politeness to joining traffic, it's absurd. How about politeness to the people in the middle lane?
The highway code is very clear on this and we'd do well to stick to it as much as is possible.
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Naturally Alanovich I wasn't suggesting that n/s motorway drivers should give absolute priority to joining traffic, and cause chaos and knock-on effects all around them in the effort to accommodate it.
When I am making progress on a motorway and I see a lot of traffic coming down a slip road ahead, I move into the middle lane if I can so that I won't be baulked by the joining traffic. If the middle lane is full then obviously one can't do that. But a slight adjustment of speed either way will make a space when it is needed. Of course the slip road driver may not recognise the fact and may stop or join clumsily causing unnecessary shunting. Happens all the time. Nothing to be done about it short of a nationwide cull of carp drivers.
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I have no problem with moving into lane 2 to let another driver into lane 1 from a slip road.
It annoys me, though, when they blast off at 90mph+ and leave me looking a prat in lane 2.
Why don't they let me gently pull back in front of them in lane 1 then take off as they will?
I suppose pride is a deadly sin!
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docotrchris, I take it to mean you move lanes only if there is no-one in lane 2 who would then be forced to move due to your actions? If you're forcing others to change lanes/adjust their speed without it being necessary to avoid an incident with the joining traffic, than I'm afraid it would seem to me you are causing a danger to other road users.
I absolutely have a problem with people who move over out of politeness when there's no need, it sets a precedent and others then come to expect it. I see it so often that it seems to me that most drivers think that joining traffic has right of way.
Unless they absolutely can't, then the joining driver should always slip in behind whatever is in lane 1 already.
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I wouldn't dream of moving into lane 2 and inconvenience another vehicle in that lane.
However, so many times I find myself, at 70 mph, door mirror to door mirror with the driver who wants to enter lane 1 in the space that I already inhabit. Don't mind if they speed up a bit and get in front of me or if they slow down behind me. Just can't cope with their lack of understanding of basic physics, ie 2 solid objects cannot inhabit the same space at any given time.
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Yep. Which leads me to believe that people have got it in to their heads that they have priority when joining a motorway.
Either that or they're just rubbish and dangerous.
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...Yep. Which leads me to believe that people have got it in to their heads that they have priority when joining a motorway...
Alanovich,
I agree, and I supose it's another reason, although not a good one, for a driver to 'stay out of trouble' in lane two.
There are slip roads on the dual carraigeway I use to drive to and from work.
Many of those joining will simply not give way, causing me in lane one to move over into lane two, much to the annoyance of him in lane two who was about to go past.
Or, if I have to stay in lane one, it's on with the brakes.
Why can't drivers joining just ease up a bit and pull on behind the car in lane one?
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"...Yep. Which leads me to believe that people have got it in to their heads that they have priority when joining a motorway..."
AFAIK This process of moving over and/or allowing unhindered access from slip roads is common practice (or law) on the continent (in particular, German Autobahns). With so many continental drivers driving 'over here' now-a-days, I think it is an expected practice, and not a bad idea anyway.
Dr C's comment about 2 objects in the same space is valid as entry to a duel carriageway or motorway is both parties responsibility to maneuver safely with the final priority given to the vehicle which is already on the main carriageway.
John R
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>> The idiot in lane 2 fails to get the message usually but that's his problem ..
A long press on the windscreen washers as you swoop across from lane 3 into lane 1 can often help with this!
J
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Regarding undertaking in lane 1, can someone clarify something for me please.
The highway code states that you should not undertake in general, but that if there is a convoy of slower-moving traffic on the outer lane you may proceed with caution.
That's fine, but what constitutes a convoy here, and what is a slower speed?
Example, I come across five mimsers in lane 2 all doing 55, and I pass them all in lane 1 at 70+. Acceptable?
What if it's two cars? Is that a long enough queue?
I have to say that I go beetroot in the face when I'm in the Leeds area on the A1 where *most* drivers sit in the middle lane. I don't know what they're feeding the good folk of West Yorkshire but they need a good stuffing from somebody that's for sure. It doesn't seem to matter what you do, they won't move either.
I just resort to passing them on lane 3 and immediately swinging back in front of them to make a point. I must remember about the washers, good call. Sadly a good oil slick would appear not to be an option.....
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I sometimes pass on the left if someone in the middle lane does not understand the rules of the road in this country which is drive on the left and keep left UNLESS overtaking.
It would be best if we adopted the same idea as the Americans who safely pass either side. Unfortunately it would never work over here as the standard of driving is abysmal and the number of road users who use their mirrors and indicators when changing lanes are very few indeed.
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I just resort to passing them on lane 3 and immediately swinging back in front of them to make a point.
I undertand the frustration but driving dangerously yourself shouldn't be the answer. Lane blocking is annoying, what you are doing is potentially lethal.
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Its not necessarily unsafe to undertake. I switch lights on, avoid swooping up at speed, and take care to watch for signs of wheel movement in the mobile road block. And the hard shoulder needs to be clear, in the event of a side-swipe. On parts of the M6, near the Thelwall viaduct, there is a 4 lane stretch north an south. There seem to be squatters rights for the 3rd lane, usually at 60 ish, quite often with the other lanes empty, but not necessarily! Please, Mr Plod, use your traffic cameras to hand out tickets. It would be too much to expect patrols to have a word I suppose.
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As I have mentioned before on this subject, cameras on every motorway bridge. Anyone in lane 3 or lane 2 when the lane to the left of them is empty gets a £60 fine and three penalty points. Simple. Revenue to provide foreign aid and bankroll MPs expenses, and penalty points to get the carp drivers off the roads.
Vote for me :-)
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>> Simple.
Not so simple really. A camera can't or won't be able to tell if a vehicle has just overtaken one and is staying in that lane to overtake another, or has just gone into that lane to overtake or is just about to pull in again having overtaken. Cameras are rigid and stupid. With an actual traffic policeman there is at least a chance that he won't be these things.
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I often feel guilty, when approaching a motorway exit, if I pull into an outer lane to pass someone who's slowed for the exit. I then tend to stay in that lane until after I've passed the entry slip, in case there's anyone joining.
I find it keeps me more alert to keep changing lanes and I tend to pull back to my left when I can. That doesn't preclude me from undertaking when I feel it's safer to do so.
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I undertand the frustration but driving dangerously yourself shouldn't be the answer.
I think you misunderstand. I do not cut the other driver up, I always leave a safe distance before pulling in, but if enough people do the 1-3-1 routine around these people maybe a few of them might get the message.
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They're more likely to get the message if you pass 'em on the inside though ;-)
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Some people never get the message!
Imagine the situation when someone is doing 55 mph in lane 5 of M1.
Nowadays I do undertaking quite often. Otherwise I won't be able to reach my destination in cool temper.
Either undertaking should be made legal (people do it anyway) or a minimum speed limit (as long as condition permits) should be implemented for each lane.
Should not be that difficult - just need to re-calibrate motorway gantry cameras.
Edited by movilogo on 20/05/2009 at 21:31
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They're more likely to get the message if you pass 'em on the inside though ;-)
I'm not sure I agree to be honest -- these guys are in a world of their own, and cars passing them by left and right will go unnoticed. Cars swinging all around them in waves might just wake them up though.
It's just a pity I can't afford a tank, that way I'd just use the middle lane as well ;)
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I think you misunderstand
Sorry - I thought you said
"I just resort to passing them on lane 3 and immediately swinging back in front of them to make a point"
Since I suspect most middle lane hoggers tend to be inexperienced or nervous motorway drivers I'm not sure that swooping across their bows is going to help. - What if they panic and break hard?
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>>What if they panic and break hard?
Perhaps they'll have a nervous brakedown?
Sorry, I was looking in my wing mirror. ;>)
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Perhaps they'll have a nervous brakedown
Excellent!
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"most middle lane hoggers tend to be inexperienced or nervous motorway drivers"
More likely very experienced drivers on auto pilot. If they should happen to notice them, they probably don't care who is busting blood vessels around them trying to "make a point" - in fact if it were me I'd be laughing at people doing that (if I should happen to notice them of course)
I worked with a guy once who was a lane hog and whose attitude was that he'd paid his taxes therefore he could drive where he liked. Otherwise he was perfectly normal!! :-)
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I worked with a guy once who was a lane hog and whose attitude was that he'd paid his taxes therefore he could drive where he liked. Otherwise he was perfectly normal!! :-)
Well, with that being the case, I guess that given that I have also paid my taxes the same rules apply to me. So if I, on an otherwise clear road were to overtake this gentleman on lane three, then move so that my car was straddling lanes 2 and 3 and proceeded to slow down forcing this guy to undertake me on lane 1 or come to a stop, he'd consider this perfectly reasonable behaviour?
After all, it's only a more extreme version of his actions.
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Sorry - I thought you said "I just resort to passing them on lane 3 and immediately swinging back in front of them to make a point"
But the fact is that the difference in time between safe and too close is a fraction of a second when you're doing 75-80 and they're pootling along at 50-55. One can make one's feelings felt without resorting to cutting people up -- I am unaware of a single occasion when I have cut across any other car's path in 12 years of driving.
Since I suspect most middle lane hoggers tend to be inexperienced or nervous motorway drivers I'm not sure that swooping across their bows is going to help. -
Disagree. As said elsewhere most of them are older drivers who don't give a fig. If I ruled the world they'd be up for the firing squad. Probably just as well I'm not really, but in general selfish, inconsiderate people turn me into an inferno.
What if they panic and break hard?
SEP. I've already passed them ;)
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"As said elsewhere most of them are older drivers"...
I * think* you may be paraphrasing me, but I didn't suggest most were older drivers. It's quite a healthy mixture of age, race, vehicle make, sex, hat or non-hat wearing people - no stereotypes.
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"But the fact is that the difference in time between safe and too close is a fraction of a second when you're doing 75-80 and they're pootling along at 50-55"
Exactly
"but in general selfish, inconsiderate people turn me into an inferno."
There are a lot of selfish and inconsiderate people out there. You cannot change them Perhaps you should try to deal with your anger and even consider the possibility that others might see you as inconsiderate
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