Can anybody explain some oddities in the infamous JD Power reliability survey. Let me give you an example. I could have chosen others but this shows the problem clearly.
The VW Passat scores not at all well for reliability: www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/driver_power_2008...p
assat_new.html
whilst the Skoda Octavia is very well regarded:
www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/driver_power_2008...i
a_new.html
The VW Golf fits somewhere in the middle:
www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/driver_power_2009...g
olf_mkv.html
Given that these cars take their components from the same set of common parts I find these results very hard to interpret. Is reliability being determined by the durability of the cup holders rather than major components or am I missing something?
{links made non clickable. No direct links to our rivals please}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 07/05/2009 at 13:48
|
Do you mean 'reliability' as in the overall score? That's composed of various ratings, one of which is 'reliability'. So if you mean the former, the cars you mention might vary because of differences in all the other ratings (build quality, running costs etc.) although they might have the same 'reliability'. Clear? :-)
EDIT: ah looking at the scores you mention it looks like you are talking about the sub-category reliability, in which case apologies.
Edited by Focus {P} on 07/05/2009 at 12:12
|
|
|
I think a lot comes down to expectations.
Thanks purely to VW's own marketing, and the way they are priced that bit higher than their rivals, people expect their new Volkswagen to be impeccably screwed together and the pinnacle of engineering excellence. Which of course, it isn't. It will be a good car, but not as good as the marketeers would have you believe.
Skodas are similarly good cars, but not marketed, sold, or priced in the same way, so don't build the same unrealistic expectations. I suspect that very minor gripes which would cause a major diplomatic incident in a VW, would, if not go unnoticed by a Skoda driver, certainly not provoke the same sense of outrage and disappointment.
I suspect the actual failure rates and problem tally between the two marques is very similar. The difference is how these stack up to the owners expectations.
Edited by DP on 07/05/2009 at 12:13
|
I've driven Skodas for the past 8 years and can assure you that I expect them to be just as reliable as any VW or Audi and would castigate them if they weren't... my expectations are just as high as any owner of a VW or Audi, in fact one reason for buying them was to get VW reliability at a cheaper price...
Over those 8 years the three Skodas I've owned have been ultra reliable...
Perhaps thats why they feature higher in the reliability charts?!
|
|
|
I find that easy to accept. I have also always wondered if how the cars are used has an effect. I am not sure for these VW group models but I always thought that a Nissan Micra for example might well get a lot less use than a Ford Mondeo & thus have a lot less chance of going wrong.
Might the Skoda have a different owner profile to the VW. Older & thus lower usage???
|
|
|
Skodas are similarly good cars but not marketed sold or priced in the same way so don't build the same unrealistic expectations. I suspect that very minor gripes which would cause a major diplomatic incident in a VW would if not go unnoticed by a Skoda driver certainly not provoke the same sense of outrage and disappointment.
Very good analysis indeed..
I remember quite a few years ago, the chief exec of BMW Uk was taken to task on a consumer programme possibly watchdog, as to why BMW at the time had so many customer complaints.
His answer was that people who buy BMW's are more discerning than purchases of the more volume brands and as such would pick up on more minor issues. - Good answer ! Whether it is right or wrong.
|
|
|
|
Ever heard of the theory of "selective perception" ?
Scenario 1 - You have been allocated a Passat as a company car. You really wanted an Audi or a Beemer but the boss wouldn't stump for one. You are going to find all manner of things to hate about the Passat and ensure that it is on record that you have had it back at the dealers regularly.
Scenario 2 - You have spent your own hard earned on a Skoda. Despite the misgivings of your family who, quite wrongly of course, are slightly embarrassed about it because they don't know any better. You are going to praise it to the heavens as a good decision aren't you ?
Scenario 3 - You have been given or have bought a Golf. No one would be too upset by the former and few would criticise the private buyer for choosing one. Emotionally neutral decision.
Now write the stats......
;-)
|
|
It is SO good to know that there are a few people around as cynical as I am!!
|
|
|
Humph, I could not agree more.
I have long been convinced that your Scenario 1 explains much of the reason for the consistently poor showing for the likes of the Mondeo and Vectra in these surveys. They are cars people are given, but don't necessarily want, and in many cases think they deserve better. The car can do no right before they've even sat in it and turned a wheel.
|
They are cars people are given but don't necessarily want
As someone who has never been in the position of being given a company car, I can only say - what an ungrateful lot!
|
what an ungrateful lot!
The ingratitude is neither here nor there. The important thing is the irrationality: turning a car into a good or bad internal object instead of assessing its material reality.
People are being trained to be more and more like that, about everything (not just their cars). It is deeply sinister and disquieting.
|
|
|
|
|
I love it with these surveys how otherwise identical cars like the Volvo S60 and V70 can come up with different scores (except for practicality, of course)...
Similar to the VAG effect, but even more pronounced in that these cars are just near identical saloon/estate variants but seat comfort was somehow noticeably better in the S60 according to the survey... Any Volvo nut would know the S60 and V70 seats are interchangeable...
Strangely, the on-line version amalgamates the results into just V70, which the paper version didn't. Someone drop a hint?
And what on Earth is "Ease of driving" anyway? And how *do* people rate braking? Do they actually measure the braking distances themselves or is it just subjective feel? As for build quality, I doubt most people can see past their damped door handles to know.
|
I couldn't work out how the Jaguar XF was voted into top place when it came 85th for reliability.
Might it been a case of the 'Jag will win whatever'? - I'm sure Chelsea fans will know what I mean (just substitute Jag with Barcelona)
|
The results of the survey are the owners overall satisfaction rating.
This includes dealers, one reason why Nissan has lost points.
Lexus owners are very happy with the dealers, so they get extra points.
Its not just reliability.
Having the same VAG lump is no guarantee of reliability, how the engine is installed, and the ancillaries fitted can drastically change the end result.
Vag are no longer as reliable as in the past, i worked with a couple of chaps that had constant visits' to the dealer, polo's in both cases, another had a skoda, his car never saw the garage except at service times.
I had quite a few test drives in golfs, borers, some with trim bits falling off!
In the end i bought the A4, a very nice car, and in my case reliable, but many were not, remember that faulty batch (like thousands?) of ignition coils, which failed at radom.
That was in 2000, back then i felt VAG was going down market, certainly the polo owners i knew, claimed never to have another one.(one chap was on his 3rd)
Just to add i would certainly have another Audi, if they made a car i wanted, the dealers were excellent.
Edited by xtrailman on 08/05/2009 at 11:34
|
|
|
|
|
The JD Power Customer Satisfaction Survey results may well be biassed. The majority of drivers (myself included) probably can't be bothered to take part. Therefore the results will be based on the opinions of a group of people who probably have a vested interest (for whatever reason) in taking part. I view the JD Power Survey with a pinch of salt.
|
>>> People are being trained to be more and more like that, about everything (not just their cars). It is deeply sinister and disquieting. <<<
Welcome to the 21st century comrade!
|
Car reviews !! reliability surveys etc I take with a pinch of salt
I do wonder in amazement sometimes when you read car reviews when one motoring journalist criticises a car and another praises it !! I just wonder how independent these things are but I am a bit of a cynical
|
|
WhatCar magazine seem to love VW's, that is why I read same.
|
|
|
|
