say the signs coming up to roadworks at Hindhead on the A3, so why doesn't anybody use both lanes?
Is it British reserve that causes a massive single lane que for hundred of meters before the lanes merge ?
MVP
|
Probably because people in the left lane will think(wrongly) that you have whizzed up the outside lane and are trying to cut in and they won't let you! British reserve my eye! More like bloodymindedness
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 05/05/2009 at 13:52
|
|
|
Is it British reserve that causes a massive single lane que for hundred of meters before the lanes merge ?
I don't know, but "meters" (Gas ones)? or even metres are not a legal road measurement in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, where yards and miles are used.
Perhaps the signs need to be written in capital letters?
|
It's the same on the Southbound M3 at J2 (M25). It's a trial road layout that has effectively reduced the M3 - pretty quiet at this point - to a single lane to allow two joining lanes from the M25. It clearly tells you to USE BOTH LANES and MERGE IN TURN at various points. Lane 2's queue is usually a fraction of the length of lane 1's, but there's always one plum in lane 1 who sits a fag paper off the car in front at the merge point, and absolutely refuses to yield.
I've also seen HGVs move across and deliberately obstruct lane 2 to prevent anyone getting past. Pathetic behaviour.
|
I've also seen HGVs move across and deliberately obstruct lane 2>>
It says use both lanes. It should say use either lane.
Edited by Cliff Pope on 05/05/2009 at 14:11
|
And if the GBP were more considerate in their general driving habits no doubt the "zip" method would be more universaly adhered to, which would help the traffic to move more freely ......... unfortunately they're not!
In my opinion most of those who charge down the outside lane do not look to merge with the flow but try to push as far forward as possible joining the inside lane at the last possible second before the cones or barriers; I see it most days on the M62 @ Warrington (3 into 2).
Then what about those who are looking to branch off to the left & again leave it until the last possible moment before forcing their way to the inside lane. These drivers slow the traffic down far more than if they simply got in the queue.
It's a great theory but in practice .....
|
Then what about those who are looking to branch off to the left & again leave it until the last possible moment before forcing their way to the inside lane. These drivers slow the traffic down far more than if they simply got in the queue.
But the whole point is the outside lane and inside lane MERGE into one, it's not one lane joining another
MVP
|
Hi MVP, I was making the comparison between cars leaving it until the last possible moment before merging 2 into 1 (or 3 into 2) & cars that leave it until the last possible moment before switching from lane 2 through lane 1 to the exit slip road.
My point being that people don't "zip" because it's the most efficient way of keeping the traffic moving but because they see it as the best way of queue jumping!
|
On most roads where you have two lanes merging into one the inside lane stays constant, while the outside lane cuts off and merges into it.
If both inside and outside lanes merged into a single, new middle lane - i.e. neither lane stops, they just merge gradually into a single lane - then it'd force zip merging.
I wonder if it'd work in practice?
|
If both inside and outside lanes merged into a single new middle lane - i.e. neither lane stops they just merge gradually into a single lane - then it'd force zip merging. I wonder if it'd work in practice?
A very similar layout is in operation in Wood Lane, just north of the A40 Westway in London where because of the start of a confounded Bus Lane the rest of us have to merge. The start of the Bus Lane co-incides with a 'Right Turn' to the BBC Worldwide Offices. I don't think it is intentionally a 'centre lane' as you envisage, it's just the way the local geography has turned it out.
In answer to your question, yes it does seem to work in practice, most of the time.
|
|
|
|
My point being that people don't "zip" because it's the most efficient way of keeping the traffic moving but because they see it as the best way of queue jumping!
if both lanes had the same amount of traffic in them, because people used both lanes as instructed... and you went for the most empty one when you got there..there'd be no queue to jump
|
|
If you change lane deliberately because it has fewer cars isn't that called overtaking?
|
If you change lane deliberately because it has fewer cars isn't that called overtaking?
Yes, but there are no restrictions on overtaking (e.g no double white lines), and overtaking is important to maintain trafiic flow in a multi-lane road, other wise everyone would sit in the slow lane of a motorway causing chaos !
MVP
|
>> If you change lane deliberately because it has fewer cars isn't that called overtaking? >> Yes but there are no restrictions on overtaking (e.g no double white lines) and overtaking>>
So undertaking is permitted whenever it says use both(all) lanes?
|
So undertaking is permitted whenever it says use both(all) lanes?
yes..and always has been, it's not undertaking as such is it..it's utilising a lane in heavy traffic, which has always been allowed if it's slow moving or stopped traffic that you are 'undertaking'... no different in theory to doing 50mph in lane 2 of a m/way, then finding lane 3 has slowed right down to 30mph or has stopped....you don't stop in lane 2 if it's clear ahead do you?
Edited by Westpig on 06/05/2009 at 18:32
|
So undertaking is permitted whenever it says use both(all) lanes? >>
Yes.
see Rule 268 of the Highway Code where "undertaking" is permitted.
|
|
|
|
It's high time zip-merging was standard practice - a bit of guidance from the authorities would help. Simple diagramatic road signs should not be beyond their capability.
HJ please encourage!
|
The way road works are signed coming up to a merging of lanes encourages people to get into the inside lane far too early and then sit there resent8ing anyone who uses the outside lane.
800, 600, 400, 200 yards get signposted. Why? When a dual carriageway on an A road often offers less warning before merging into a single lane.
Just warn of roadworks ahead and traffic merging then leave it until 200 yards.
|
|
|
Two aspects of English character make zip merging unworkable:
1. a perception of courtesy, waiting one's turn, walk before the umpire calls, not pushing in don'tcha know? From this it naturally follows that someone trying to get ahead, take advantage of a situation is, well, frankly, a bit of a cad; a modern day Terry-Thomas in a Peugeot 407 coupe.
2. Proliferation of signs absolutely everywhere telling us what to do, without which we feel unable to act or think for ourselves. If there is no printed instruction or some jobsworth in uniform telling us what to do, we are apparently unable to do anything. Remember cereal packet tops? (Slide finger under flap and move to left and right); blood curdling announcements to MIND THE GAP which terrify first time foreign visitors to London; Passports which "request and require in the name of her Majesty all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely..." My all time favourite, spotted at London Fields Lido exhorts visitors to "Please park bicycles appropriately".
Zip merging can be made to work by
1. giving equal priority to both lanes
2. running a line of cones right up to the last 100 yards/metres
3. having removed all lane markings, placing a huge sign "MERGE NOW!"
This would work for 90% of drivers. The other 10% would freeze, panic and pass out from the sheer exertion of having to think.
|
|
|
|
If you give some drivers an inch they'll take a mile.
;-)
Chill out MVP, you're a long time dead.
Edited by L'escargot on 06/05/2009 at 12:23
|
If you give some drivers an inch they'll take a mile. ;-) Chill out MVP you're a long time dead.
But at least i'll get to hell quickly, as I always use the outside lane ;)
|
I don't think notions of politeness come into it really - just outer-lane envy. The inside-laners are just too frightened to take any initiative & resent those who do - leading to some quite pathetic 'oh no you don't mate!' blocking type manoeuvres.
I even see this where a 'legitimate' merging lane in slow moving traffic (AKA slip-road) is involved. Some weeny little personalities actually accelerate & drive within an inch of the car in front to stop 'interlopers'! It's one of the few times I'm tempted to make a crocked little finger sign.
Like our infantile & irresponsible attitude to drink, I fear it's an inerradicable part of the national psyche. Simply pathetic.
|
In the few instances I've seen zip merging tried, it does work very well. It also prevents an un-nescessary long tailback which blocks junctions and slip roads further back.
|
|
|
|
