Hi
I've been caught for speeding by a parked up police laser van iin a 40 zone doing 48 and I asked to see the evidence. The photo is of the front of my car but at the time II didn't have a front number plate (was damaged in a shunt) so the registration is not visible in the photo. I presume they got my reg from the rear plate using the ANPR camera in the front of the van - or a plod was quick with his notebook - but my question obviously - is this ticket legal given that at the point the speed was measured by cars indentity could not be known and should I plead not guilty , or could they use the ANPR evidence to back it up even though it won't have a speed readout?
Thanks for any help
Edited by Pugugly on 22/04/2009 at 18:51
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I'd say you should cough up before they start wanting to prosecute you for not having a front number plate too! I'm surprised they haven't notifed you of this offence already.
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Hold on a minute, can I get this straight?
Were you speeding or not? If so, take it like a man and if not then contest it.
However if you are looking for a get out on the numberplate you're wrong (no way else why would anyone have a front number plate? Oh hold on it's the law that we have one there.....) and arguing this point will probably get it 'out of the system' and you may get some further action on said missing plate.
Sorry to be so blunt but there's obviously no misidentification as you got the ticket.....your only question is 'was I speeding?'
KR
Benjurs
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Ah I see someone else got there before me! must type faster next time!!
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I think I already stated I didn't have a plate at the time because it had been damaged in a shunt - the thing was smashed. This wasn't me trying it on with the cameras. Also bear in mind motobikes don't have front plates in the first place.
I was under the impression the photo used for evidence has to identify the car. In this case it clearly doesn't and I'm not going to cough up funds to the police xmas ball and get 3 points if I don't have to especially for such a piffling infraction of the limit.
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I'm not going to cough up funds to the police xmas ball and get 3 points if I don't have to especially for such a piffling infraction of the limit
by your own admission you were 20% over the limit (hardly piffling I'd say) plus you know and admit to yourself and us that you WERE speeding, so why are you so eager to get out of this?
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"I'm not going to cough up funds to the police xmas ball and get 3 points if I don't have to "
It actually pays for Gordon Browns Xmas ball, as it goes straight into his coffers. Police don't see a penny!
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To take a balanced view and without being judgmental, I think youy do need to be carefull they dont come aftre you for no front number plate. Having established that they can/will track you down, I wouldn't try and take this any further.
Under normal circumstances, I would always ask for photo evidence on the basis that I couldn't be sure whetehr it was myself or the wife that is driving. There is a slight chance that they cannot produce this or that the photo is innadmissible/spoiled for some reason.
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Its not a case of whether they can track me down - its not exactly rocket science to take a note of the rear plate. What I want to know is whether this ticket is legal given its based on a photo which does not identify the car.
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What I want to know is whether this ticket is legal given its based on a photo which does not identify the car.
Take it to court and find out.
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What I want to know is whether this ticket is legal given its based on a photo which does not identify the car. Take it to court and find out.
.*******
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Oops! I've accidentally deleted an entire post whilst editing it to remove the swearing. You'd have thought I'd have got the hang of these buttons by now. Mind you, I'd have thought the OP would have known about this forum's no swearing policy as well!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 22/04/2009 at 17:25
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Martin -beat me to it!
If it isn't legal this is the only way of arguing the point.
You need a lawyer, or lots of time to gather your own evidence to present your case.
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>>Also bear in mind motobikes don't have front plates in the first place.<<
You've said so yourself.
As a biker, I'd fully expect the id to be made on my rear plate and prosecuted accordingly.
If you think the picture is of your car then I would recommend that you pay the fine and take the three points.
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Fleeble
Firstly this was a minor infraction of the speed limit. you were clocked at 20% over the speed limit. This means that your speedo was reading between 50 & 55 mph
So we have you driving through a 40mph speed limit, not seeing that your speedo was over 50 and not seeing the camera van. Frankly you deserve 3 points for your poor observation.
Re the ticket, you can accept it or fight it. To fight it you will neeed to go to court, and plead your case. The chances are you wil be found guilty of speeding, be done nder the construction & use regulation for having no front number plate and you will get court costs and a larger fine
your choice mate.
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Yes perfectly legal. The stills are from a video or DVD and time is recorded on them as is the forward looking camera, if it had one, or the operator turned round recorded your number and time in his note book which provides a time continuance for the passing vehicle, exactly the same as they do for bikes. POst this on www.Pepipoo.co.uk if you like. Remember, no matter what you decide to do, do not miss the 28 day return of the NIP of you may find yourself with a 'failure to Furnish' charge 6 points and £300 fine and the insurance companies love those as they do not know what you are hiding. I do not see you have any defence. Regards Peter
Edited by Peter D on 22/04/2009 at 12:44
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Oops! I've accidentally deleted another an entire post whilst editing it to remove the swearing.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 22/04/2009 at 17:26
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"They certainly don't drive every day and if they did there'd be a half mile tailback behind them as they potter along at 29.9mph." You obviously think that the limits are advisory or don't apply to you.
If the limit is 30, 29.9 is a good speed to drive and bad luck to those in the tailback! As you have only been here for '0' weeks you obviously haven't had much of a chance to work out the way this site works. People who pitch up with a genuine problem or a gripe of some sort get sensible advice and comments. Newbies who turn up admitting speeding and a breach of the Construction and Use regulations get fairly short thrift, as you have seen.
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 22/04/2009 at 13:00
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snip
In my experiencethe sort of people that vilify others for minor infractions of the speed limit are the sort of irritating sunday drivers who hardly ever take their car out of its centrally heated garage. They certainly don't drive every day and if they did there'd be a half mile tailback behind them as they potter along at 29.9mph.
Your experience is pretty poor it seems to me. I am not villifying you for speeding. I am villifying you for not seeing the camera van. Its YOUR fault you got caught becuase of YOUR *lack of observation*.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 22/04/2009 at 17:27
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Your experience is pretty poor it seems to me.
I've been driving for 25 years mate, a lot of it up and down the country for work and I've only been done by
a speed trap twice including this time so spare me the patronising pink fluffy dice - one more edit because of your swearing and your account will locked
speeding. I am villifying you for not seeing the camera van. Its YOUR fault you got caught becuase of YOUR *lack of observation*.
Perhaps if they hadn't parked it semi hidden behind a bush I might have.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 22/04/2009 at 17:34
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snip, nothing to see here - move along please.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 22/04/2009 at 17:27
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fleeble,
You've been caught, take it on the chin, pay up...and move on
If you try to be a clever dick, you'll get done for the plate as well.
Camera vans are usually fairly easy to spot, so you need to do something about your observation skills if you plan to carry on stretching the limit, which obviously many do. Have you considered an advanced driving course? You'll be amazed at how much it can 'up your game'.
You might have worked out by now, but this forum isn't one of those for dodging the law..or for that matter, where you can call people rude names, it's more civilised than that.
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You might have worked out by now but this forum isn't one of those for dodging the law..or for that matter where you can call people rude names it's more civilised than that.
Its not a case of dodging the law, its a case of wanting to know if the ticket is legal in the first place. The only replies I seem to have got here are "ha ha , you got done, pay up , you deserve it". I was under the impression going by honest johns newpaper column that this was a serious forum , not just an offshoot of usenet news full of trolls.
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I believe this method is also used to catch motocycles, i.e. the registration is noted as the vehicle passes. So I suspect the legality is sound. The only way to challenge it is to take it to court and if you lose it will cost you more than £60.
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Its not a case of dodging the law its a case of wanting to know if the ticket is legal in the first place. The only replies I seem to have got here are "ha ha you got done pay up you deserve it". I was under the impression going by honest johns newpaper column that this was a serious forum not just an offshoot of usenet news full of trolls.
But you know you did wrong and are seemingly chasing your tail here. Nobody said 'hah hah pay up', the replies are constructive and have given you advice which for some reason you choose to ignore, and you seem oblivious to the certainty that you can only makes this worse by following your own advice.
Please do as many have said - bite the bullet, pay the fine, take the points and move on. Life is too short.
(oh and BTW i'm speaking as someone once caught doing 36 in a 30 zone, and regardless of the relevance of the posted speed limit at that particular location it was my fault and nobody elses)
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Fleeble,
I suspect that it is legal or why would the police bother sending out the ticket.
Lets not try kidding on you are clearly trying to dodge the law. As you have admitted to speeding. Would you have paid the fine if the picture had shown your registration?
As others have said you have been caught pay up or take your chances in court.
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If it goes to court, I suspect they'll do you for the plate as well.
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Fleeble I suspect that it is legal or why would the police bother sending out the ticket.
If you think the police don't try it on occasionally knowing full well that the ticket is dodgy then you're very naive. The fact that anyone gets off speeding tickets when they take their case to court proves that.
Lets not try kidding on you are clearly trying to dodge the law. As you
If theres a legal way of me avoiding the fine and 3 points why shouldn't I take it? I'm not interested in the moral high ground, so what if I was speeding, who cares. I'm interested in keeping a clean license and saving some money.
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Pepipoo would be a better place to explore your options.
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(reply to F)
Then stop slagging everyone else off and take it to court.
One thing I like about this forum is that everyone is realistic and whilst they have their own views they are prepared to agree to differ, all you've done since you came on here is slag people off because they told you to get real and take it on the chin as they feel it would be enforceable, or put your money where your mouth is and challenge it in court...
Now, as this thread obviously isn't going anywhere but downhill can we lock it and move on?
Edited by b308 on 22/04/2009 at 14:55
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I wouldn't bother going to court, the risk of guilty of speeding or perjury is too great.
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id just take it tbh as it sounds like it could end up being messy if its taken to court
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Yeah go to court, if you didnt break the law then you should contest the ticket.
If of course your just a responsibility dodging goodfornothing that was dumb enough to get caught, contest it, lie if you like and let them throw away the key.
There are some self-confessed speeders in here no doubt, but even they have the backbone to accept it when they get caught.
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>>I'm interested in keeping a clean license and saving some money.>>
Easy way out of this. Stick to the speed limit and you will have no worries : o )
Edited by bhoy wonder on 22/04/2009 at 16:51
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We all speed at some point but most people accept they have been caught and pay up. Some others dont and try every trick in the book to get out of it. If I was you I would pay up and get on with my life.
If you go to court what you going to say. Yes I was speeding but because of such and such my registration was not visable. In my view you have no chance of winning and all that will happen is you get more points and a bigger fine.
Chill out and welcome to the forum.
Edited by bhoy wonder on 22/04/2009 at 17:02
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Fleeble.
How long have you been driving around without a font plate?
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They'll present their evidence in a the time honoured way - how a car was pinged going over the limit and had no front number plate. The photo will show a car with no front number plate, the Officer's sworn evidence will be presented to the effect that he/she recorded the number from your rear plate. As long as they have followed legal process and the Court believes them you're stuffed. If I was in your position I'd make a considered decision to "take it on the chin" as someone said or contest it, you may get off with it or you may get convicted. Its a Lottery based on the quality of Police evidence and process. Ask yourself one question based on the fact that the general rules of evidence have changed little in years - "How do I think they managed to convict people before the relatively recent use of a camera ?" if you struggle to answer that - cop a plea !
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I suspect Feeble is no longer reading this thread, as he is now trying to get sympathy on Pepipoo:
forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=39978
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Maybe this thread should just be locked?
"I was driving too fast and I was driving an ilegal car, therefore the ticket must be ilegal"
Really no excuse to have no front place unless it has just happened.
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