I think after this hard core winter, even the purists will agree that FWD cars are not that bad after all?
So many people with complaints against BMW, Merc + other RWDs.
And the tree huggers will also realize that we need 4x4s sometimes.
:)
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I saw two cars which had skidded off the road and crashed this morning. One a Merc, one a Land Rover Discovery. The latter being dragged out of a hedge by a tow truck. 4x4 is great I'm sure, so long as the driver knows that the laws of physics still apply to him/her.
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I think it's pushing it a bit to justify them on the basis of just three or four days of snow a year...
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I think it's pushing it a bit to justify them on the basis of just three or four days of snow a year...
People justify airbags and perhaps only use them once every 20 years ;-)
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I have happy memories of driving down out of Sequoia national park in California a few years ago. I had a front wheel drive Toyota crappy, or something similar, and was taking it very easy down the steep, snowy road out (the park was being closed as the snow had come in).
Some idiot went charging past with a blare of horn (I was probably doing about 20 mph holding it in 2nd). About half a mile later I passed the same guy standing next to his car which had gone into the ditch on the high side (luckily) of the road after what looked like quite an exciting fishtail. Made me laugh!
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4x4 is great I'm sure so long as the driver knows that the laws of physics still apply to him/her.
This is not a new phenomenon either. I recall my uncle telling me of his snowplough driving days, and one occasion in the mid 80's where they were ploughing lane 1 of the M40 at 20 mph or so, when they were overtaken by an Audi ur Quattro doing "a good 80 mph" and sending a plume of snow in its wake.
As he and his mate were agreeing a bet on how long it would be before they found it in the ditch at the side of the road, the tail lamps began to sway from side to side before exiting sharp left, arcing skywards as the car left the carriageway, and coming to a rest in the middle of a field.
Driver was OK, and car remarkably lightly damaged (soft landing), but ego not quite so unscathed.
Edited by DP on 05/02/2009 at 15:08
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When I buying my Qashqai a few months ago, I insisted that it would be a 4WD, much to the bemusement of dealer who could supply plenty of 2WD models but stuggled to find a 4WD model with the right colour). This last week I have been driving around with a smile on my face...
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If there is no grip then FWD, RWD or 4WD or all equally useless. This is why in many European countries they need winter/snow tyres. The tyres on our cars will not be so grippy in the cold.
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In Sweden they have studded tyres and great quality roads but I think our soft, pot-holed, speed bumped roads would get quickly destroyed with the studs. I followed a Volvo the other morning that could not make it up a slope on his summer tyres the CRV just took it in its stride without any issues.
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4x4s are a waste of time on UK main roads and in cities on snow and nice.
Why?
Cos the roads are blocked by people without four wheel drive.
Stoke on Trent is very hilly. In heavy snow the resulting traffic chaos caused by the snow on hills (usually ungritted as the council are often useless at gritting in advance) , stops buses cars lorries and 4x4 without discrimination:-)
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>The CRV just took it in its stride without any issues
Please ... cars don't have 'issues' - drivers may have problems sometimes. :-)
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Few revs and pull higher gears, but try explaining that to most folks. 'twould be easier to explain Gordon Browns thinking!!!
MD
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Please ... cars don't have 'issues'
Apart from what issues from the exhaust.
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Many years ago a AA patrolman (with Landrover) in the Scottish highlands told me that the most common type of vehicle requiring a tow out of deep snow was a skiers 4X4 from an urban area. Draw your own conclusions!
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This last week I have been driving around with a smile on my face...
So have I in a crappy Proton 1.5 auto...?! Try again :-)
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>>we need 4x4s sometimes
Pah. Some of the most dithery and incompetent drivers I've seen today have been in these - so have most of the morons following close up each others' backsides.
My car ain't 4WDm it's front 2WD - but no problems at all!
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I had to have a word with a neighbour who could not get out of her drive. She was revving the engine hard in first gear with the tyres steaming in the ice LOL.
I used to own a rally prepared Nissan (FWD) with Gislaved snow and ice tyres and I never had any problems apart from after a run on a motorway the build up of static electricity would try and electrocute me each time I touched the metal on the door. Although my office chair and door handle has been doing that to me all this week.
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>static electricity would try and electrocute me
>chair and door handle has been doing that to me
Very interesting. May i ask do your shoes have rubber soles?
Phil I
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My snow shoes do have a rubber sole but I also changed into a pair with leather soles and it made no difference. I am now opening my office door with a glove on LOL This used to happen to me a lot and my research put it down to the vents in the car being plastic charged the air and then blew it on me and charged me but inside the office we have radiators!
Strangely, I have not experienced this for some time until this week.
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Yes, 4x4s are wonderful in this weather, as are wellies.
If you could only have one pair of shoes, would you buy wellies?
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No it would be a pair of leather boots with a goretex lining - which I have. A pair of pretty patent leather pumps wouldn't be up to the all-weather walking I do.
Similarly a 2wd wouldn't get me out of my lane for maybe 20% of the year.
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If you could only have one pair of shoes, would you buy wellies?
4x4 drivers remind me of the sort of walker I sometimes come across on the footpaths of Norfolk sporting Low Alpine jackets and top of the range Berghaus boots and kitted out with walking poles and a Garmin satnav: All perfectly good kit but totally unnecessary for the conditions they will ever encounter and looking slightly ludicrous. They do make me smile though.
Edited by CGNorwich on 05/02/2009 at 23:49
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If you could only have one pair of shoes, would you buy wellies?
In real lives, people can afford plenty of shoes though many families have only one car.
Personally, if I had the money, I have no problem having my only car as 4x4.
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Pica
I suffer from static on wife's car -first her Yaris and now her Mazda 2 which is unusual as all previous Mazda's had anti static pads or buttons - I have now put a small multitool on her key ring and I hold it very tight when I exit her cars and touch it to door latch - I even get zapped through my trainers Grrrrrrrrrrrrr!
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4x4 drivers remind me of the sort of walker I sometimes come across on the footpaths of Norfolk sporting Low Alpine jackets and top of the range Berghaus boots
you need a Legacy.
Looks like an estate car (and indeed it is)
Goes like a sports car
Grips like a SUV
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>>Grips like an SUV.
Is that a good thing?
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>>Grips like an SUV. Is that a good thing?
In this weather - yes.
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Is that an SUV with extra wide summer tyres or any car (2WD or 4WD) with winter tyres ;-)
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Perhaps they normally live in the hill parts and only have one jacket and pair of boots?
Must admit I usually walk on lowland paths and have an overspecced Paramo Alta jacket because it was going cheap in their Wadhurst outlet sale, also it's a brilliant jacket! - cheapo boots and no poles or satnav tho'!
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It's more like Summer vs Winter tyres rather than FWD vs RWD
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE
[watch all modules]
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE [watch all modules]
very interesting!
one thing though, in the brake tests, notice that the winter equipped vehicle is always on the left, also note that the right hand lane is a lot more icy.. hardly a fair test, not that im disagreeing with the results, just that if the track had the same type of surface, the results would be closer.>> It's more like Summer vs Winter tyres rather than FWD vs RWD
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And the tree huggers will also realize that we need 4x4s sometimes.
Only people who regularly drive in fields 'need' 4 x 4s. No-one else does, they just 'want' them, which is different.
I once drove from Livingstone due north to Leeds [that's up through Zaire/Congo and then across the Sahara] in an ordinary RWD Toyota. We didn't 'need' 4WD although some days we wanted it. Indeed, in some conditions our vehicle was better than a heavy Land Rover - I remember passing them up to their axles in slightly wet sand.
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Only people who regularly drive in fields 'need' 4 x 4s.
And people with large-ish caravans, horseboxes or other trailers (4x4s are normally heavier, so give much greater stability to the overall outfit).
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And people with large-ish caravans horseboxes or other trailers (4x4s are normally heavier so give much greater stability to the overall outfit).
Dont forget there are legal restrictions on towcar / trailer weights, if you tow a heavy trailer you need a heavy towcar or 4x4.
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The last rearwheel drive car i had was 30 years ago, it was a cortina, quite useless in snow, after failing to get onto my drive after a couple of occasions, the house was on a steep hill, i moved to front wheel drive and always got up the hill to home base!
I was quite happy with fwd, even with the occasional tramping of the wheels when i didnt quite get the revs right for the quick island take off, i never got stuck.
Until that is i bought a carravan, wet grass left me placing old rubber car mats down to get some grip, along with a long faced site owner looking on.
That progressed naturaly to a permanent 4 wheel drive audi. great on wet grass and for towing. But with 245 tyres not so hot in the snow, and permanent 4 wheel drive did take 3mpg of the mpg figures.
And then came along the xtrail, front wheel drive with automatic 4 wheel drive on command, (taken from the nissan skyline) the economy of fwd, with all the advantages of 4 wheel drive, high ground clearance to get me down pot holed lanes to fish the river trent, to glide over speed humps. To give good traction in snow. to pull my van without fault.
Just remember though you still need to stop.
Now that must be the next progression a car that stops on ice!
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