I am tempted to purchase a 2008 2.2 EX Diesel, 6K on the clock. I have been out on a test drive and it seems OK, just wondered how non biased people see the CRV as a long term vehicle. I do about 400miles per week so economy is an important factor. I was very disapointed with the Accord Tourer diesel only got 40ish per gallon, so was wondering what I can actually expect from the CRV.
Any help much appreciated
Roger
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If your driving style is the same in both then surely you'd expect less than the Accord, what with CRV's barn door aerodynamics. I know 3 people with these cars and all faultless. Chew front tyres apparently.
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I get 43 mpg on average, find it very comfortable.
I rotate the tyres every 6,000 miles as per the handbook so don't know about the tyre issue.
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My sister has an 02 CRV, practically faultless since new. Comfy and spacious. Petrol though, so pretty thirsty.
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Rog - forgive my self-assuredness on a topic I know little about, but is "it seems OK" reason to buy? "OK" is something I'd say about income tax when faced with an inveterate lefty.
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Probably because I don't have to do much town driving HJ. Nice clear roads most of the time as well. :)
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Rog,
Can't speak to the diesel as we have an ES auto, but the consumption in town driving is poor - never above 23mpg. I'm a CRV fan, having owned the Mk I, which I loved to death, but there's just one aspect of this new CRV that is really bad - the quality of the interior plastics. The boot and door cill plastic scratches at the slightest touch - our car is just one year old yet the plastics inside look as though they are over 5 years old. Quite awful and a big disappointment. Otherwise, I'm delighted with the car.
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Bear in mind that CRV's and similar such vehicles and much more likely to roll over if you have to take sudden avoidance action.
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Sudden avoidance action will not provoke a roll-over in most Euro/Jap soft-roader 4x4s these days.
They will be more likely to roll over in a crash, or if they come off the carriageway however. 'SUVs' are about twice as likey to be involved in a fatal rollover than a regular saloon/hatch.
The famous Elk-test that almost destroyed the Smart before it came out is somewhat more vigourous than anything a (non-Stig) normal driver would do in avoidance.
The absolute safety of these vehicles is still debatable - in a T-bone style crash I would want to be sitting higher than the car broadsiding me (eg. a 4x4). In a head-on crash I'd want to be in something heavy with as many NCAP stars as possible whether 4x4 or saloon/hatch. If I came off the carriageway I'd want to be in a saloon/hatch.
Edited by Lygonos on 01/03/2009 at 09:36
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Agreed - another myth busted, we flirted with a Discovery for a couple of years, it was an 01 model and was fully loaded with various bits of technology (which worked well by the way) and it handled very well for such a top heavy barge. Nowhere near BMW country but far better than most 4x4s.
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as pointed out by others, it was the A - Class, not Smart ( which I have owned,a diesel LHD ) , which failed the Elk test. And the problem was rectified before long and a recall for those already sold.
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As already mentioned later in this thread - both the A-class and Smart failed this test.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/despatches/41049.stm
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I've never understood why a characteristic like a higher centre of gravity is seen as a 'fault'. Every vehicle has to be driven appropriately. The biggest difference in safety can be made by the driver.
CR-Vs, RAV4s, et cetera do not fall over all the time. In fact with VSA/ESP it's probably nigh impossible to get them to do it unless you hit something specific. I hit soft soil in a Fiat 850 Special and rolled that before SUVs were thought of.
Being "much more likely" to do something that is extremely unlikely anyway is not a big deal, even if it were true.
The A class was a very specific issue that was cured by the addition of ESP.
Edited by Manatee on 01/03/2009 at 10:05
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Summed up goes something like, "try not to crash" is probably the safest option to have on any car.
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Paitonboy: >> Can't speak to the diesel as we have an ES auto, but the consumption in town driving is poor - never above 23mpg.
I drive a petrol EX auto and get about the same as you around town, but I get about 35mpg on open A/B class roads, with a measured average over two years of 28mpg. Although I did get a top-up to top-up 41.5 mpg average at a steady 70mph on the M1 once from London to Newcastle at night, after about 35mpg at 80-ish the opposite way. Had I cruised at 50 or 60 I daresay I?d even have bettered 41.5. After all, you can get a theoretical 0mpg if you're stuck in traffic jams all the time.
Agree entirely otherwise, plastics are really bad.
Lygonos: >> It was the Mercedes A Class that failed the elk test, not many Smarts in rural Sweden. Otherwise, again, agree entirely.
In comparison to CRV I & II, Rav4, Freelander 2 (too dear & still unreliable) & X3 (much too dear), all of which we have or have had, in the family, the CRV III is easily the best all-round buy IMO.
BB
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Oh good - roll on tomorrow.
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I had a test drive last week. Sounded like a tractor when I put my foot down. Ride was better than the Accord I tested straight after although it still wasn't as good as I would like. Didn't feel particularly special either for the money. I won't be buying one.
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I am tempted to purchase a 2008 2.2 EX Diesel 6K on the clock. I have been out on a test drive and it seems OK just wondered how non biased people see the CRV as a long term vehicle. I do about 400miles per week so economy is an important factor. I was very disapointed with the Accord Tourer diesel only got 40ish per gallon so was wondering what I can actually expect from the CRV. Any help much appreciated Roger
A 1997 CRV 2.0 Petrol auto has been in my wife's family since new, is still going strong, and has never given a moments' trouble.
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If economy is top of your list, can't understand why your looking at a CRV.
I get according to the computer 42mpg locally, it was 44mpg on the motorway.
Thats a 171bhp xtrail.
However i would expect with a saloon type car to get another 10mpg on top, say 50mpg.
When i drove the CRV i was disappointed, it had 251 pound feet, against my 2.2 SVE xtrail with 231.
But at no time did i feel that it was any quicker.
The Forester did, great engine, diesel.
Another negative maybe the VED to pay.
Unless you need a SUV i wouldnt bother.
Wasn't it the baby Mercedes that failed the elk test?
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Merc A-class and the Smart both failed it in style.
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Honda CR-V (07 on)
2.2 i-CTDi ES 5d
Rates effective from 13 March 2008
Date of Registration 6 Months 12 Months Band CO2 (g/km)
1 Jan 2007 ? £93.50 £170.00 E 173
Rates effective from April 2009
Date of Registration 6 Months 12 Months Band CO2 (g/km)
1 Jan 2007 ? £96.25 £175.00 H 173
Rates effective from April 2010
Date of Registration 6 Months 12 Months First Year Band CO2 (g/km)
1 Jan 2007 ? £99.00 £180.00 £250.00 H 173
VED ! Cheaper than a Golf GTi
Edited by Pugugly on 01/03/2009 at 20:14
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The way i understand, in year 2010, the first year reg cost, applies only to new cars in that year?
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Picked up mine today - whole process took 2o minutes, including the paperwork, half hearted attempt to sell GAP. So far so good - drives like a car most of the time. Interestingly the diesel has hydraulic PAS. Everything seems fine to me. The "quadrent" Handbrake is easy to adapt to and miles ahead of any electronic handbrake equipped car I've driven.
"Sounded like a tractor when I put my foot down"
What a load of nonsense that remark has turned out to be. You'd be hard pushed to figure that this is a diesel on driving it without knowing. Nowhere near as smooth as the BMW 3.0 diesel but a country mile ahead of the BMW 4 pot diesel (which is pretty good by the way) unit - on a different continent to the VAG PD engines E|verything that Honda have promised in their advertising hype. Clean quiet and apparantly economical.
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I'm sure Honda would clean up if there was an auto version of diesel CRV.
Had an HRV (the six seater) for a weekend and there was just too much gearchanging - it made driving seem frantic. Almost any auto SUV feels effortless - completely different experience to a manual.
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I came back home down A and B roads as I had to call somewhere on the way back - gearchanging isn't that "busy" but the clutch is exceptionally light for a a normal car - even more surprising in a part time 4WD. Performance is reasonable, its no GTi - but that's not why I bought it. If I want fast and effortless I'll use the Golf.
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>>gearchanging isn't that "busy"
I found it far too busy to begin with, especially as its predecessor was an auto. I tend to block change a lot now. And top is effectively 3rd in a 30 limit unless it's flat and straight or downhill.
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>>Had an HRV (the six seater)
That'll be an FRV. The HRV is a 'toy' SUV that I haven't seen for a while - must be out of production.
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I block change as well - 4th to 6th and vice versa - I'm not quite used to the torque band on this yet so it will take a few miles to settle. Ride on the standard (alloy) wheels is pretty smooth, smoother than the Roomie and the Golf - slight wind noise on an exposed road from the offside door mirror area. Doors are little tinny compared to what I'm used to BMW/VAG. Not figured out if I can sequentially unlock he doors on this yet - the manual is thick ! Bleeps like hell for some reason yet to be fathomed.
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I block change as well - 4th to 6th and vice versa - I'm not quite used to the torque band on this yet so it will take a few miles to settle.
That confirms my thoughts that it just had far too many gears! I found with the diesel Accord that around town it could be just be left in 3rd gear unless you actually stopped.
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My understanding that providing a 6th gear on a lot of cars is there to reduce CO2 emissions rather than a driving aid.
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That'll be an FRV.
Ah - you're right, thanks. It was FRV.
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"Sounded like a tractor when I put my foot down" What a load of nonsense that remark has turned out to be. You'd be hard pushed to figure that this is a diesel on driving it without knowing.
I drive an old fashioned diesel so I should be used to high noise levels but the CRV was worse. Hopefully they will put the new Honda diesel from the Accord in the CRV soon which will help a lot.
I drove a petrol Mazda 6 recently. That was quiet. Stopping at a junction I thought the engine had stopped - there was *no* noise from the engine.
Maybe they've sold you a petrol - could explain the quietness and cheap price... ;)
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Well, I can't argue with you - but as I say I'm comparing this motor with the best diesels in the business (BMW) and its smooth, quiet and seems efficient.
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I haven't driven a BMW diesel so can't comment. Anyway enjoy your new toy.
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pugugly
If your CRV has keyless ignition, you may find the bleeping is due to you moving away from the car with the engine running, and the key in your pocket?
When you get use to six gears, you will find youself wishing for a seventh. Just to keep the revs down. My pushbike has 18 gears, i have never found that too many, but always think i could go faster if i had some more.
I think the reference about the noisy engine refers to full throttle, which you will not have used, if you are running it in.
But in normal driving 1500-2500 rpm are the revs you will use, theres little point in revving a diesel, rapid progress can be made by just riding the torque wave.
I've blocked changed with every car i've had, i thought that was how everyone drove?
enjoy the CRV pug
Edited by xtrailman on 02/03/2009 at 20:31
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Nice car.
I test drove the 2.2 diesel EX. I was really impressed with how 'car like' the drive was.
The interior is well laid out & organised, a general feel of space. However the only downside that I found was the quality & feel of some of the plastic. I checked against the showroom car & that was worse than the demo. But if thats the only issue I had after a day thats going some!
Very impressive car, I ordered one via a third party lease company (price looked too good to be true & it was sadly) but was let down.
Enjoy it Pugugly, I'm sure you will :)
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I was seriously thinking again about a CR-V after some of the positive comments here and putting my "tractor" like test drive down to a bad example. So last night I thought I would search out a CR-V forum to see if there was anything else I should know.
The first result on google took me to a site where there's a large thread discussing the poor refinement of the CR-V called "Diesel Clatter". See tinyurl.com/b7d2f2 The OP talked about his CR-V sounding more like a tractor. He then goes on to compare it unfavourable with a renault kangoo van. There are other people posting on there having noise issues too.
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They refer to it sounding like a pinking petrol engine. Well, yes you do get that but IMO pinking is nowhere near sounding like a tractor.
If you have only ever had smooth petrol engines then you might be more aware of it, but if you have had diesels before then it's hardly noticable. It's certainly the quietest diesel I have had and my previous vehicle was a Freelander with the BMW engine in it.
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pugugly
Keep us informed. I pick mine up this Thursday. I have gone for the 2.2 i cdti ES. HJ had one on long term test for 7 months , he should be updating the long term test some time soon. All the write ups are good for this vehicle. My missus will love the high driving position. Cant wait to get it. I am thinking of paying the £830 up front for the fixed price servicing for 5yrs what do you reckon.
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I bought an x- trail , after 56000 miles of careful driving, regular servicing, sitting for ages idling the turbo to cool it, guess what, the turbo has blown. I expect a very hefty bill for this COMMON fault, but what really annoys me is that Nissan know about this problem and do nothing about it !!
Well they have i suppose , they've put a different engine in the new x-trail, doesn't help me though.
Still, they have lost a customer, i shall tell people about my lovely X-trail which i really loved,which is sat at this moment on my drive awaiting a recovery tow.
When repaired , i'm off to the Honda dealer to test a CRV, i can't trust another X-trail.
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I bought a new CRV 2.0i VTEC petrol in 2008 and get an average of 35mpg town and country driving. I recently got 39mpg 4 up on a motorway trip at motorway speeds. I drive it fairly hard and I'm quite impressed.
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Update.
Slight disappointments:-
1. Illogical switchgear - Heated Rear Window switch on the wrong side of the heater cluster, with a tiny LED warning lamp on the switch.Tiny switches and buttons. Haphazard layout. Why haven't Honda gone for a big rotary light switch like the rest of the cars in its class. Illogical climate controls. VAG and BMW do it far better.
2. Lack of auto-lights. Twice tonight I've moved off without turning them on.....dash lights look the same; lights on or off.
3. Lack of single door unlocking. You get that on a bog standard Skoda.
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.... Lack of single door unlocking....
Single door locking/unlocking on a Ford has to be set by pressing and holding both buttons for a few secs until the indicators flash, or something like that.
Might be worth having a good root through the manual of the Honda, if you've not yet done so.
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Illogical climate controls.
I don't know why you think that PU. Set on auto and turn a dial to temp seems quite logical to me. Although I suppose it's what you have got used to on other cars.
I agree about the heated window/mirrors switch being on the wrong side.
I have always had cars with the lights on a stalk so I would probably think a big rotary switch was awful.
Well one of the things I don't want is auto lights. Again, maybe you have had these before and are used to them.
I don't know if you have got used to the beeps yet. Parking sensors and seat belts are the ones which always come on at start.
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It is what you get used to, my xtrail has auto lights, i find them irritating, i keep putting the switch into auto, when i think i am putting my side lights on as in the last xtrail.
Also i like the all doors unlock bit, the old xtrail needed two clicks to open all doors, very irritating.
Pug i think you will find quite a few options for the locking in the manuel, there is for the xtrail, i just havn't got round to sorting out which system i want to program.
Jap cars are very similar in the control area.
Edited by xtrailman on 04/03/2009 at 10:15
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>>Why haven't Honda gone for a big rotary light switch
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I hate that big knob that dominates the dash in many Honda's.
Lack of auto-lights. Twice tonight I've moved off without turning them on.....dash lights look the same; lights on or off.
I think auto lights are potentially dangerous but it is confusing in Hondas with the instruments illuminated all the time. With Accord, I found it a pain during the day in poor weather as there's no "lights on" indicator in the dash so their status isn't obvious.
3. Lack of single door unlocking. You get that on a bog standard Skoda.
Does it have auto locking when moving?
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there's no "lights on" indicator in the dash so their status isn't obvious.
There is on the CR-V. Just above the tacho there is a green light bulb indicator only visible when the lights are on.
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Agree on the lights on thing - but did it again tonight. Not helped by the Golf having reliable auto-lights. Volkswagen manage to get the climate control thing just right in the MK5 - simple rotary knob layout with related switches grouped together - logically. The CRV's is just too messy.
Otherwise enjoying it. Plus points.
Steering is precise (hydraulic PAS) and compared to the Office car's (electric) system has no dead spots when driving at low speed. At 70 mph - the only sound is muted road sound, and slight wind noise - not as good as the 535d - but they occupy different price bands. For its cost its pretty good and the diesel engine is inaudible (melrin must have driven a real old nail). Ride is very supple on the standard wheels. Its good - niggles are very minor.
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Another irritation - headlamps don't go off when you turn the engine off - every car I've had for the last twenty years has done that.
I still like it very much though !
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Walked into a dealer today, waved cash under their noses for an ES diesel and the most they would reduce the list price by was £500 - not even what Whatcar say you should get off list price at the best of times let alone when the banks are going bust and the economy is in meltdown.
I run my own business so am no mug when it comes to negotiating. Have negotiated good discounts on my other cars in the past.
So have given up on Hondas now and will opt for a Verso now instead. Just going to have a think about whether I buy a new diesel from one of the online places, one of the immaculate 12 month old petrol/diesel models that I have seen in numerous Toyota dealers... or whether I wait until the Auris Verso comes out with the newer lower CO2 engines.
Honda obviously don't need the business.
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Why don't you go with someone like drivethedeal? They are offering ~£3700 discount on the ES model.
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Been thinking about it.
Interestingly, I just came across an article on a site called usedcarexpert which looks at a plant Honda has in Bristol where they send all their used cars prior to going on sale on the forecourt.
Quite impressed by the grading and level of work they go to in making used cars ready for the secondhand market even putting the cars under special lights to reveal all the dings and chips... and then removing and respraying or even raplcing entire panels.
The site mentions what to look for in the log book if the car is actually a 'new' Honda car sold as used on the forecourt.
My gut feeling though now is to simply look elsewhere to the numerous other firms who are heavily discounting new prices and who obviously want my business. I ave seen some impressive online prices - 5K off - for the new Toyota estate (Shame the car is so low) but I like the sound of both the new petrol and diesel engines from Toyota that HJ reviewed. One of those in a new Verso bought online next month is begining to sound tempting.
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... headlamps don't go off when you turn the engine off...
PU,
It's not a 'follow me home' feature is it?
Have you tried locking it and leaving it to see if the lights go off after a minute or so?
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No I don't think so but will test the theory. The Honda we have in work is the same - sadly I found out the hard way. Not good when you have to ask a client for a jump start....
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You should get the "ding...ding...ding..." if you leave the lights on.
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One of those in a new Verso bought online next month is begining to sound tempting.
I looked at a Verso last year. The hard ride and where it was built (Turkey) put me off. The new one looks good although it's still built in Turkey. I also don't think buying a car in the first year of production is a good idea, particularly if you want to keep it a long time.
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...Not good when you have to ask a client for a jump start....
PU,
I suppose you turned down his offer to TWOC the car you were parked next to. :)
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I looked at a Verso last year. The hard ride and where it was built (Turkey) put me off. The new one looks good although it's still built in Turkey. I also don't think buying a car in the first year of production is a good idea particularly if you want to keep it a long time.
Good point. The hard ride is something that keeps cropping up. Didn't realise they were built in Turkey - don't see why that owuld be a problem though as every Verso I see on the road looks immaculate even if it is several years old - perhaps the owners don't go out much!
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After a lot of deliberation, I opted for the Diesel EX. A great car, love driving it, seems relatively economical, I have averaged 38 - 41 mpg, not bad for a big car. The only negative is the notchy gearbox, 1st to second, and the fact that the radio signal is poor when the heater rear window is switched on, anyone else had similay?.
All in all im very pleased, and glad i went for the EX over the ES.
Roger
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The ES would do for me - the only thing I can see that I would like over the SE to be frank is the cruise control. Never been hung up on alloys or having a leather covered steering wheel. Not sure what else the ES has over the SE.
Wouldn't be prepared to pay new for an EX but would perhaps consider one if I found a good deal on one used.
Did you buy new or used? How much did you pay compared to list?
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Not sure what else the ES has over the SE.
There you go Tawse!
In addition to the SE features, the ES comes with:
Power folding door mirrors
Headlight washers
17" alloy wheels
Privacy glass
Rear and front corner parking sensors
Leather steering wheel and gear shift
Front foglights
Independent dual climate control
Double deck cargo shelf
Cruise control
6 speaker audio front and back
Variable intermittent wipers
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I have a 2.0i ES CRV and it suffered from the same notchy 1st to 2nd gear change. I thought it was me at first. I took it back to the dealer who could find nothing wrong. It didn't seem to make any difference if the car was cold or at normal running temperature. Now that I have put a few thousand miles on the clock the notchy gear change has got better. I wonder if this is a common fault.
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Although I have driven Honda cars with an exemplary gear box, like the old CRX, so they can do it if they can be bothered, they might regard manuals as an aberration. Most Hondas are autos, for the home and US markets. I've only experienced worse gear changes in Corsas:)
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The change on my diesel CRV II is spot on - short travel, positive and precise despite being, presumably, cable operated. First to second drops in with very little force after a semi-pause in neutral.
Like all manuals, it benefits from matching the revs and/or exerting gentle pressure on the lever rather than trying to ram it from one gear to another as I see some drivers doing.
If anyone has one that is unpleasant, it's possibly badly adjusted.
Edited by Manatee on 08/03/2009 at 21:52
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Well I took it to Yorkshire and back last week - holiday trip. Proved to be a competently quick yet frugal drive on the Motorways - unencumbered by any drift in crosswind with a near perfect driving position it is a long legged (460 mile range) cruiser - with sixth gear being a natural overdrive (in a very old fashioned way). Navigating towns and villages are a doddle, its turning circle is small (in comparison with Land Rover products) and very easy to park thanks to the proximity sensors front and rear. Tyres are deep enough not to threaten the alloys on even the deepest kerbs. Sweet enough ICE system, easily linked to my iPOD - I may go for an adaptor to make it controllable from the wheel.
Bags of room in the boot for an increasing luggage size (shopping) easily hidden under the dual shelf - what a cracking idea that is. The load area cover covers whatever you leave on the shelf. Super comfy interior with very low noise levels at any speed. Fording some rivers in the Dales was a doddle - high seating is a boon to see more.
Good all round motor.
43.5 MPG according to the computer - will brim test it sometime.
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Do CRVs have a good loadspace ? Foldable or removable back seats for EG ?
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Foldable - not needed to do that yet though. Not quite as flexible as the Roomie though. The front seats do an Austin Maxi (i.e. convert into a full length bed - not that I plan to use them)
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Pug
Thanks for update. I picked mine up last Thurs got a ES diesal. What a car . The missus loves the command driving position. Its on the 17 inchers 65 profiles very smooth takes all the lumps and bumps in its stride. I have drove on the motorway and town driving handles all like a dream. Like you pug connected my i pod no problem good sound. Little bit of noise from door mirrors on motorway. very very comfortable. Under the bonnet i was impressed to see a fuel pump squeegy should you run dry and need to prime.
Tawse.
Well here's the good news. I got nearly £5 grand off. Plus a brill deal on my part ex. So much for Dealers not doing the deal. I still cant believe how good a deal i got. Apparently this dealer could do it because they achieved targets and are now well on way to next target. I can confirm that the deal will be on until the end of the month. don't think forum lets us post this on to users.
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E-mail it on to me if you want it forward details that way.
Just been to swap plates over onto mine from my Roomie. Staring to feel like "my car" now. Same with the mirror noise - Used to BMW levels of suppression though :-)
Edited by Pugugly on 16/03/2009 at 19:10
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Just begining to use the information display. I am used to the VW group onboard computer. At the moment seem to be getting 34 mpg thats not bad for around town. keep pressing reset button and moving to programme A then B, think one shows actual and the other current mileage. Rear parking sensors when the tone goes continuous, you think you will be right up to object behind but you still have a dececent gap. im more than impressed at the moment with this car.
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Funnily enough an identical coloured and spec'd one has turned up in the village on a 09. A decent gouge out of the rear bumper suggests the driver may have had the sensors switched off.....
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I don't see point driving with them turned off Pug. Also it helps the wife when she puts into reverse you know youve got it cause it bleeps.
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The only explanation I can think of for this feature is to turn them off when towing, If this is the case, the ever so 'umble Roomie does this automatically when you connect the towing electrics.
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Well here's the good news. I got nearly £5 grand off. Plus a brill deal on my part ex. So much for Dealers not doing the deal. I still cant believe how good a deal i got. Apparently this dealer could do it because they achieved targets and are now well on way to next target.
Did you use an online broker, as I did, or did you merely turn up at your local dealer? Just curious to know as I believe that Honda is now giving this deal to all dealers despite what my dealer refusing to budge on £500 off list initially and then, once I told them the broke price, not even coming near it.
Mine is coming on the 30 or 31 apparently or maybe first week of April. I am told there has been a big run on CRVs since the latest price reduction.
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Tawse
Your post resonated exactly with a pal of mine. Local dealer wouldn't budge. what i did was went armed with all the info i could get hold of. You know the score internet prices, what car etc. Then i rang round. When i got to the dealer i bought of i couldnt believe the deal. I gave my local dealer a chance to match couldnt come anywhere near thousands out he said snap their hands off. Not all Honda dealers are giving this though i worked out about 3. As with all usual sales it was target driven. Pleased to see you got a deal in the end though. Hope my post helped. regarding stock levels i was told there where plenty. But depending what colour you wanted. I was told when enquiring there where about 174 of a certain colour and 69 of another . This ment the colour choices i wanted i could have had if ordering quickly. plenty of stocks i reckon. But a good car. Oh i picked mine up within a week of ordering everything went perfect and the dealer kept me informed all the way and did what he was supposed to do.
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Well, I take it this thread has finally expired!
I have waited 6 weeks for that to happen, drooling at every single post.
I'd just like to say ( head held high!) that we are now the proud owners of a Mk11 CRV, after swapping the Mondeo for it, and are delighted with it :)
The only complaint is the small fuel tank whiich I hope has been rectified on the newer one.
It will be another 10 years before I can look back at this thread and agree or differ with you, as lorry drivers wages arn't that good :)
But I did enjoy reading what's in store for us at a later date!!
Pat
Edited by pda on 22/03/2009 at 17:21
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12 Gallons on mine. A little short but still allows for a 450 mile range........
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I'd just like to say ( head held high!) that we are now the proud owners of a Mk11 CRV after swapping the Mondeo for it and are delighted with it :)
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I think the MkII is a lovely looking car - reminds me very much of one of the Jeep Cherokees from the mid 90s on which I think it is based. It looks more like a 4x4 in my mind than the newer CRV, RAV4, etc.
Congratulations - I hope you enjoy it. If the MkII had come with an extendable steering wheel I most likely would have gone for a 3 or 4 year old one myself.
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I have just given mine its first wash. the Honda dealer i am told used the Auto glym products. I have to say it did a good job alll the water droplets gathered in nobules when giving it its first rinse. I like giving a new car its first wash , it gives you the chance to get to know the vehicle even more. When hoovering inside the elegance carpet mats were a bit fiddly to get out at the front. but overall a lovely finish on the car. It came with Conti 4x4 tyres. I have been checking the oil as instructed by dealer it hasnt lost any as yet. What is suprising though is how clean the oil is. I have only done a couple of hundred miles but the oil is clean still. I remember with the passat TDI you could drive home from a service and the oil was really dark coloured apparently they say at VW thats the way it should be. I seem to be averageing about 30mpg around the town. Wont be long now to our first trip to Cornwall that will see me put on about a 1000 for the week. I havent filled up on anything special yet like V Power or normal shell. it will be interesting to see if the mileage goes up.
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What is suprising though is how clean the oil is. I have only done a couple of hundred miles but the oil is clean still. it will be interesting to see if the mileage goes up.
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If its anything like the diesels I have owned the engine will not loosen up for about 10,000 miles, and not be at its best untill 20,000.
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I was surprised as well ! I have done well over a 1000 miles sine I had it - oil still the cleanest I've ever seen on a diesel. Not cleaned the car yet - need to go to Preston next week so no real point.
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Pug
I see what you mean about the switch for lights on the end of the stalk instead of stand alone dash switch.
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Preston does have a bit of tarmac. It would stay reasonably clean even that near the Arctic circle.....
;-)
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 23/03/2009 at 19:02
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You're just trying to make me jealous Tawse:)
Now, if any of you can remember that far back when you owned the CR-V 11, did you ever notice a funny smell when the engine was working hard?
We're towing the caravan to Cornwall in June and I really don't want any problems after last years disaster of cliff top sites and gales at Looe.
It only happens momentarily and only if you floor it to get past something, or pull hard up a hill with the van on.
It smells 'warm' and 'odd'.
Not oily. Not water or antifeeze-y
Just warm and 'odd'.
It doesn't use water or oil, hasn't had a new exhaust but we're worried it may be the catalyctic converter?
Any ideas welcome!
Pat
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I sometimes get a slight hot oil type smell around the rear wheels when I have been pushing it.
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Humph.
Does that mean I can leave the dogs and the Hondastyle sled behind ? More room for duty free hooray !
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You weren't thinking of smuggling quantities of Dandelion & Burdock or black puddings back over the "Hut-Sut" divide were you ? Better check your allowances........
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 23/03/2009 at 21:16
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Like Rog C and the Flying Scotsman I am finding the gearbox neutral to 1st to 2nd to be notchy - not enjoyable and does distract from the pleasure of driving the car.
I have had my first thoughts today of perhaps getting it checked out but reading, on here and elsewhere online, that it seems to be a common problem.
Have to say it is the worst gearbox I have ever used with the exception of a friend's Fiesta circa 1980.
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I have just bought a brand new petrol auto ES with advanced satnav and am getting an average of 25 in town and 35 on a recnt blast down to Devon and back from Watford. It should improve with the engine loosening up. That said the vehicle has exceeded my expectations and what with the satnav being brilliant, the cruise control really works well in combination with armchair comfort, the bluetooth phone system recognises my phone every time upon entry to the vehicle, the voice recognition is very impressive in fact one of the commands is "where is the nearest chinese restaurant", the system knew what I said first time, worked out a route to it within 20 seconds and then we just followed the guidance. The vehicle is very comfortable and suits my sedate style of driving, however, show it an open road and it goes like a rocket. I'll update this forum again with views after a couple of '000 miles more.
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My new car is coming tomorrow morning. I have not bought a car in 11 years so would welcome tips on how to inspect it before signing the paperwork.
It is coming on a trailer from a 160 odd miles away so I would expect, perhaps, they might be wanting to drop it off and get back home ASAP so how much time should I take in looking over the car, how critical should I be, etc, etc?
Thanks for any tips and advice,
T.
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I have never had a car delivered. On the 2 occasions when I bought new cars I collected them from the garage and took a long time over it. Things to check include:
- PDI complete
- all electrics work
- condition of paintwork - orange peal, scratches, different coloured panels
- panel gaps
- interior clean and unmarked
- no obvious damage in engine bay
- no cracks in glass
- unmarked alloys
- tyres as new
- alarm works
Personally I would be critical as you are spending a lot of money. However the people delivering will probably want to get away as soon as possible and they won't want to be taking a rejected car back with them either.
Just googled this subject and came up with tinyurl.com/dn42j4 - there's a checklist on page 8 too.
Even if you take time to check the car over it's quite possible you will miss something. When I collected my first new car, a mk2 Golf, a disgruntled garage employee had taken a hammer to the top of the radiator leaving a big dent. I spotted this on inspection and the garage fixed it before I accepted the car. There was also a hole in the gear gaiter which was probably done by the same disgruntled employee which I didn't spot. That hole was still there 10 years later when the car was written off.
Anyway good luck with the new car. I'm looking forward to hearing how you get along and some pictures would be good particularly as I came close to buying a CRV myself a few weeks ago and may still do one day.
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All I've ever done is have a slow, deliberate walk around the car to check for any blemishes.
Pretty much everything else is covered by warranty.
Let's also give the dealer a bit of credit - they want your car to be right and you to be a satisfied customer.
If one of the gadgets doesn't work, it makes little difference if you report it immediately or a week later.
This is particularly true as you are taking the car off a trailer.
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I can understand this viewpoint although if I've bought from a dealer many miles away, as in this case, then I would be at the mercy of the local dealer to fix any warranty issues. As they didn't supply the car they *might* be less helpful than they would otherwise be.
I would also be checking for blemishes but you could argue that after the car has been driven a few miles it will have blemishes anyway so what's the point?!
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I would also be checking for blemishes but you could argue that after the car has been driven a few miles it will have blemishes anyway so what's the point?!
Plus there's always something that you miss and then you feel annoyed with yourself - last new car (youngest daughter's Mitsubishi Colt) had on odd wobbly 1" scrape on the inside of the passenger door B post that had just taken the paint off (might have been caused by seat belt buckle, but tend to doubt it) but not touched the primer coat.
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..after the car has been driven a few miles it will have blemishes anyway so what's the point?!...
Merlin,
Think we might not mean the same thing by blemish.
Any blemish/scratch/damage which the owner is concerned about should be reported on delivery to prevent the dealer claiming it happened later.
As you say, blemishes picked up along the way are just part and parcel of motoring.
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I would also be checking for blemishes but you could argue that after the car has been driven a few miles it will have blemishes anyway so what's the point?
When I buy anything brand new I expect it to be perfect unless an allowance has been offered.
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Gave my new ES a good wash and wipe down last weekend and this was a good way to check it out for problems. Well, part of the deal I struck was the fitting of carpets, a 4th year warranty, a 4th year AA cover and fitting mud flaps. These were all a dealer fit and they got 3 out of 4 done correctly. The mud flaps were only held on by one screw each leaving 2 other gaping holes on either side. The vehicle was returned to the dealer for fixing. The girl on Service Reception gave back the key and upon inspection I found that only one side had been fixed. Doh!!!! The other issue was a load of protective tape residue on the roof which was also corrected by polish etc. However, the car was jet washed and no one bothered to leather it off meaning it was covered in water marks, needless to say they were politely asked to return the car in the state of cleanliness it was before they washed it in the first place. Again they failed. So, if the main dealer can't secure mud flaps, can't wash and dry the car how will it be when they service it!! Incidentally I got 5 years free servicing in the deal. The only advice I can give is to to check the vehicle inside and out and listen out for nasty rattles. Be fully prepared to take it back for fixing, as for getting an apology for being inconvenienced.....no chance.
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>>Be fullyprepared to take it back for fixing as for getting an apology for being inconvenienced.....no chance.
Honda dealers - it figures
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Gave my new ES a good wash and wipe down last weekend and this was a good way to check it out for problems. Well part of the deal I struck was the fitting of carpets a 4th year warranty a 4th year AA cover and fitting mud flaps. These were all a dealer fit and they got 3 out of 4 done correctly. The mud flaps were only held on by one screw each leaving 2 other gaping holes on either side.
Are the mudflaps extra now? My 07 ES came with them as standard from the factory.
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Well i remember when on my test drive, looking at the car i drove it was a diesal SE. It looked as though it had mud flaps on only small though. I mentioned this to sales guy oh he said '' the car doesnt need em''. When i bought my ES the other week i didn't even ask for flaps because as the vehicle comes kitted out is ok in my eyes. I struck a deal to get elegance carpet mats included. I have to say when coming to hoover they are tricky to get out, so you can hoover/clean underneath em. They are fastened in with press studs and hooks to put under. Personally i would take the flaps off, probably cut your fuel consumption down a bit as well. I have been asking a few questions to Honda and a letter remains unanswered. The dealer i dealt with was very good though. Saying that i wont be getting it serviced their.
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Flaps fitted to mine - they were mentioned on the invoice, I didn't ask for them though. Tiddly little things.
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For an extra £800 the dealer provided the carpet mats, 4th year warranty, a 4th year AA cover, the mud flaps and metallic paint, all in all it was a good deal.
Edited by Gallego on 07/04/2009 at 22:36
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OIL:- Tell you what mine has not lost any oil at all. Also its the cleanest looking oil i have ever seen in any vehicle i have ever owned. The passat i had was black driving off the dealer forecourt after service's. I keep reading that with the new CRV keep checking your oil every day the dealer also said that, how are all yours looking. I have done about 850 miles. Going to Cornwall on Saturday so that will be a good run, hope it dont run out of oil.
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Just cracked 2.5 K since I got it. Oil still brown rather than black. Overall fuel consumption in the region of 43 mpg. No complaints other than some daft switchgear decisions (switachable parking sensors is the latest with a warning light on the switch "heads down" rather than in the cluster - could have been included into the associated graphics)
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Pug does yours look as though its used any oil yet. Have you topped up.
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Check at fill ups - used none.
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Thanks for that Pug. I will.
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Just got back from Cornwall so first big trip out in CRV. Total miles driven 829, the on board computer stated i averaged 40.7mpg (all times kept within speed limit). This was a good mixture of motorway there and back, then while in Cornwall local running about. Plenty of hills etc i don't think thats bad what do you backroomers think. Always had the car full of passengers. Long journey down was very comfortable. The first thing brought to my notice was when someone said whats that yellow mark in the headlining just above the B pillar drivers side. First time i had seen it must be some mark from manufacturing or something i am not worried anyway. The local roads in Cornwall are very narrow and the CRV handled them no problem i felt comfortable in the car. In some of the car parks the spots were vere tight, the btm car park at Padstow near the lobster place is very tight. The parking sensors are very good and helped a lot. I think they are probably the best sensors i have encountered, they just take some time getting used to them. I am not used to 6 gears yet and going up the hills with a heavy load , i didn't think it pulled as much torque as say my old Passat i had or even the Skoda. It wasn't pulling strongly in 3rd i had to drop it down then it was ok. One thing the missus mentioned and i have to agree and Tawse posted earlier about this is the 1st & 2nd gears. No doubt about it bit notchy but gently feel for them and youll be ok. The gearing is probably the worst thing i have encountered with the car. Pug the oil has now darkened up a little and maybe used a fraction hardly noticeable (i don't know what the scare is about checking it so regulary). The car can take a good luggage load but i am really impressed about is how much weight it can actually take without bottoming on the springs. i have been doing lots of tip runs taking soil in bags cramming the car it handles no problem at all. So overall very happy i think fuel consumption good ,engine good, handling good, comfort very good happy driving. Going back in July will report back in the mean time i think ill start a new thread the long road to Cornwall see what response i get.
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Same engine in my Accord used oil *intermittently* for the first 25k miles. Check every time I fill up, now maybe uses 0.5 litre between services, but used 4 litres in first 20k miles.
Be careful though, the use wasn't constant. Some tanks nothing, some tanks absolutely loads. It's well worth keeping an eye on it.
Edited by Gordon M on 13/05/2009 at 20:42
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Hi,
3500 miles up -piled loads on since I had it. It unerringly does 460 miles before I'm down to 40 miles left on the computer - figures out at around 42 mpg. It seems to be pulling a bit better now after a few miles. Gear change can be a bit notchy at times, but nothing untoward. Crackingly comfy drive. Back to the dealer on Tuesday to get a towbar fitted - removable type at 416 quid fitted. Expensive but I'm not going to risk messing its CANbus by going third party. No real moans apart from iffy ergonomics. Halogen lights have a good spread - far better than my MK5 GTi. Doesn't seem to show dirt not bothered to wash it since I've had it. Comfy refined and nice to drive in a cool sort of way. Feels dead secure and you don't feel the need to compete with other faster stuff. You still get there as quick. Fortunately the radio is fine on mine. Considered an iPOD retro fit - £250.00 at the dealer - forget it.
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Cant undersatand why antbody wants to buy a 4wd simply for road use, unless it is purely for posing. If your worried about crash safety, then do less miles.
There are many more comfortable more economical cars designed for long journeys
I have a 4wd and frequently tow trailers across fields. Rarely do I need the 4wd and more often than not when slippery I need a tractor anyway.
Towing is often the reason quoted for the necessity for a 4wd, but in my experience a low range gear box and a diff lock is more suitable, as this type of vehicle has more lock on the steering essential for reversing. Sadly I have not found one yet. Such a vehicle should be more economical as the drag on the second axle drive is not there.
Many 4wd's have 'diff lock' on the gear lever. This is not axle diffs, but 4wd/2wd diff, and still results in 2 wheels spinning on mud.
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99% of the time its front wheel drive though - four wheel drive rarely kicks in, which was the whole point for me, I need a 4wd for some shooting stuff and not for the rest of the time so it fulfills its role perfectly, reduced fuel consumption and emissions are a by-product.
Edited by Pugugly on 18/05/2009 at 12:10
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I don't think the CRV is much of a poser's car - it is however a very spacious car that carries estate car amounts of gubbins on a Civic sized footprint (due to the height and more upright driving position).
I used to mock drivers of these things until I needed a family car for the missus - we found a CRV II far more useful than a hatchback/estate.
I'd still prefer an estate for huge distances but around town they are surprisingly useful, and at low speeds their inherent poor aerodynamics is less of a problem.
Think of them more as family-friendly Transit vans!
As for X5/X6s however.... ;-)
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X6 ? Probably very good at something. Thing I can't get my head around though is how something so ugly can be so expensive.......
Mind you I did ask myself the same question about a girl my best mate hooked up with at one time.....
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X6 ? Probably very good at something.
BMW as a brand does nothing for me and the X6 look hideous, but I think the point is that it's actually pretty good at most things you could want a car to do.
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Exactly the reason I was loyal towards them for many years. I liked them and felt a strange pang of something the Welsh call "Hiraeth" when I was a passenger in a new 330 the other day. Good cars.
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> but I think the point is that it's actually pretty good at most things
So was she apparently. Right moose though. Like the X6
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One of the main reasons I'm looking at a 4wd is because the ride is usually better because of the large tyres. Posing is the last thing I think about.
The new eco version of the Volvo XC-60 does away with 4wd completely. So you get a car that has a good high driving position, comfortable ride without the 4wd gubbins. Pity it's quite expensive, at least for a private purchase.
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The new eco version of the Volvo XC-60 does away with 4wd completely.
That's common on quite a few of the smaller SUVs like Nissan Quashqai and Ford Kuga.
Hire a Jeep Grand Cherokee or Dodge Durango in Florida and it'll have a a 4x4 badge on the rear door, but it's only front wheel drive.
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I can barely see the point of that - I always had and needed 4x4 capability and the CRV seemed the logical way to go about things when I "refined" my fleet. I rather like it as a car as well - which helps.
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Yeah i agree with you pug. I do some beach fishing and go in all states of weather, but more so the car can be parked where the front wheels could be on tarmac and the rear wheels onto sand. Thats where the 4x4 kick in thats why the CRV was a good option. by the way dipped oil last night and its just used a miniscule amount top mark the dot is just showing on dip stick. previously oil was covering it.
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Keep meaning to do it - in fact go and do it now.
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The British built CRV and cars that are destined for the British market do not have a Diesal particulate filter (DPF). Although the manual shows a DPF, the small print in brackets below states for some models only. When i bought mine the salesman said it does not have one. Good i thought i had heard of many people having trouble with vehicles fitted with DPF. I rang an Honda dealer got no response from them, they said they would ring me back they didn't. Not one to let things lie i rung Honda. Does my CRV have a DPF fitted what year is the vehicle they said. When i said its brand new on an 09 plate, yes it has one. Ooh i said the manual states for some models only can you tell me which ones have them fitted then ''ill ring you back''. Unlike the other Honda dealers i had rung who didn't ring back, they did.
This is Honda's reply when they rang me back. My CRV does not have a DPF (so the salesman was correct). What is more they said'' the only Honda in the range sold in the Uk to have a DPF fitted is the Accord (i reckon that's becuse they now come with that new diesal engine is it a DTEC). I asked '' the manual shows a DPF and it states some models only which models i asked. The ones for the German market they said, vehicles bound for the German market have to be EURO V complient due to the fact Germany already complies with Euro V. Britain does not have to comply while 2010. I reckon soon all CRV will come with that new engine DTEC and will have a DPF fitted. So all owners of CRV unless imported will not have a DPF fitted. Here's a way you can also check which i picked up on. Switch on the ignition and all the panel lights light up for the various warnings. look where that heater coil light is and next to that would have been the DPF warning light. You will notice yours will not have it. The thing what suprised me here most was why is the UK lagging behind our European counterpart on emmision control etc.
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Just returned from another week in Cornwall. Round trip this time about 489 miles done some travelling about in Cornwall. Computer showing averaged 38mpg. I drove a lot of the way with the air con switched off, never exceeded 70mph most of time 65 ish. The oil has now blackened and used just a fraction. The ride was superb very comfortable. The cruise is very good, especially were you cancel it and then want to go back to the pre set speed you set. Not one passenger complained. What has amazed me is the amount of wieght you can pile into this car and makes little effect on its handling or bottoming on the springs. recently removed lot's of soil from garden and it carried it no problem many times. The floor mats are awkward to clean undoing press studs , overlaping hooks etc & the rear all bieng in one piece. Seem to be averaging 30mpg round town and general motoring around 35- 40mpg not bad for a car of this size. Still happy.
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Still happy here, piling the miles on now (just under 8k), lives on and laps up motorways - lifetime MPG is around 42mpg, does very little town work though. Agree with the above. All the minor stuff I moaned about earlier still holds true. Brilliant rural car as well. Service it soon. Carries piles of stuff around as I generally live out of the back of it. Nice all round motor - My dentist has an X6 though in black - I know how he affords it though. Nice car.
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Had to call Honda assistance out today. Fuel filler cap would not release. On arrival at the garage , pulled the lever got out went to filler cap it had not sprung out. 3 attemps no joy. I could have kicked myself really. I actually thought on my first ever fill up that the filler lid should spring out more. Further to that it has always been awkward never fully springing out. Drove home and rung Honda assistance. They use the AA. Technician came and asked me to release lever in car. Technician proceeded to prise flap open with thin screwdriver. He made the observation that the spring clip near the flap hinge was incorrectly fitted. He made an adjustment and now it fully springs open. The incorrectly fitted spring clip (thats the galvanised thing you see inside cavity next to hinge of flap) has caused a deep scratch on the radius of the hinge flap.
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I eventually got round to going to the dealer, closest not the one where i bought it. Right firstly we went for a drive, not happy with gears too notchy i said. They are especially in low gears when changing. Technician said feels like all others i have drove mmm i thought. Then he said when i pressed him look closely lower down 1 and 2, he said yeah i see what you mean, but it seems normal to all others. I then told him Honda acknowledge there is a fault. Ill ring em he said when we get back. Next up i showed him the de luxe floor mats, the stainless rivet broke where it says CRV. Next up i showed him the headling and the marks that have appeared. Next up showed him petrol flap. He rung Honda up. Yes there is a problem with gears they will be in touch. Floor mats will be replaced apparently many have snapped (but the tech did say they have replaced just for scuffing). They will replace all the headlining its a known fault (have a look at yours it can develope anytime. In manufacture they used a glue on the roof it sticks the headlining, but when exposed to daylight it changes colour and shows through. On mine i have marks above b pillar drivers side, around light in mid of roof, and the odd spot around they look a yellowy rusty colour. Regarding the petrol cap the tech re adjusted the clip and put some touch up paint on, he also told Honda about this and apparently they are also to look into this further. Hope helps you all. Has any one other news on the gear scenario.
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Had a CRV from new in 2002 (petrol). Absolute reliability. Done 120,000 and still works like clockwork with no repairs yet needed. My only complaint is that the central locking comes on after a minute or two, so when unloading you have to keep unlocking it with the remote - otherwise the alarm goes off!
Otherwise comfy and fairly quick for this type of vehicle.
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My only complaint is that the central locking comes on after a minute or two, so when unloading you have to keep unlocking it with the remote - otherwise the alarm goes off!
If you unlock the car, it will relock 30 seconds later unless a door has been opened. If yours is relocking when you have the tailgate open, it sounds as if the switch is not making properly when the door opens. Check that the boot light comes on when you open the door. If it does, the car shouldn't lock.
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A friend of mine has a 52 reg CR-V 2.0 auto petrol which she's owned from new. It's only done 50k, but literally nothing, not a single thing, has ever gone wrong with it. She has it serviced once a year by her husband who is a self employed mechanic, and that is all it needs. Still looks and drives like new, and goes very well indeed (surprised me actually!). A very practical, spacious and reliable family car. Brilliant car.
Cheers
DP
Edited by DP on 08/10/2009 at 11:14
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If you unlock the car it will relock 30 seconds later unless a door has been opened.
That may only apply to the "main" doors, not the tailgate. So just open and close a door and the central locking should not then activate.
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>>That may only apply to the "main" doors, not the tailgate. So just open and close a door and the central locking should not then activate
I take your point Bill; perhaps I should have mentioned that I had this problem on a 2002 CRV after a towbar was fitted. The trim was preventing the door switch making the circuit. When I pared a bit of plastic off to give it enough clearance it was fine.
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went to dealer last week. Had the roof lining replaced. Had floor mats replaced. Honda looking at Petrol flap issue. They are still woking on a fix for the notchy gears.
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Has anyone else heard any more about a fix for the notchy gears yet.
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14.5k today - took it in for a tyre rotation - pleased that there are still 4mm tread all round left on the original Bridgestones - trouble is I'll have to replace all four tyres at the same time - following postings here I'll go for Contis all round from Costco unless National can match the price of course.
Nothing gone wrong (touch-wood) so far - still reasonable fuel economy - 43 mpg on the meter.
My complaints remain with the dodgy ergonomics. Gearbox still OK.
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Took it in.....took it in indeed !!!
Gentleman of leisure would have benefited from the excercise I'll be bound.....
;-)
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Swap all the tyres around yourself when the nice chap at National (torques them as well)will do them for £20.00 - it was actually cheap parking whilst I conducted some business in town..!
Edited by Pugugly on 25/11/2009 at 19:39
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>>following postings here I'll go for Contis all round from Costco
They'll be Michelins - OK though.
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Ah yes - whoops.
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See....excercise stimulates the mind too.....better take care.....
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Yep - Gisse Job, I can do that.
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Yosser
Yosser Hughes wasn't it......
Edited by Humph Backbridge on 25/11/2009 at 19:52
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from Costco unless National can match the price of course.
Costco prices (and not just tyres) seem to have crept up but they seem unbeatable during 20% off offers, when you have to buy 4 tyres anyway - although you can take 2 away and return and have them fitted later.
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Pug- Mine came with Conti's already on, seem to be wearing ok. I have now done about 5100 miles. I wonder why mine came with Conti's on and yours Bridgestone yet we bought the CRV's within a week of each other. Like ive posted had 4 warranty faults. The mats, the headlining, petrol flap and the notchy gears. But still like the car but missus complaining big style about the gears.
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Anyone else out there heard any more about a fix for the notchy gears yet. On warranty i have had the whole of the roof lining changed, the glue reacted with sunlight. Changed no problem.
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